Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • Canary_Yellow
    • By Canary_Yellow 12th Oct 16, 7:58 PM
    • 37Posts
    • 6Thanks
    Canary_Yellow
    Professional consultants certificate
    • #1
    • 12th Oct 16, 7:58 PM
    Professional consultants certificate 12th Oct 16 at 7:58 PM
    Does anyone know much about professional consultant's certificates and when they are required?


    We live in a Victorian terraced house that was refurbished extensively (but no changes structurally) in 2010.


    We got a mortgage with Santander when we bought the house from the builder that undertook the refurb. Prior to the refurb it was being used as a store or some other kind of light commercial activity. It was structurally a house, but not being used as one.


    We're selling and the purchaser is insisting that the house should have been subject to some kind of building warranty as a consequence of the refurb, but as it was not, we need to get a professional consultants certificate.


    The CML guidance for conveyancing is ambiguous on this. It refers to "conversion" but it is not clear that what happened to our house was a conversion as this term isn't really defined.


    Furthermore, if not having a warranty is an issue for obtaining a mortgage, why did we not have the problem when we bought the house?


    I'm loath to go out and obtain a professional consultants certificate, primarily because I don't understand why we require one, but also because I suspect it will be costly.


    Can anyone shed any light on this issue?
Page 2
    • teneighty
    • By teneighty 13th Oct 16, 3:23 PM
    • 801 Posts
    • 520 Thanks
    teneighty
    I have not come across a PCC for conversion projects so thought I'd do a bit of googling. This is the first result.....https://www.cml.org.uk/lenders-handbook/pcc/

    So it seems their request may be reasonable. I think davidmcn has under played how much work needs to be done for a conversion to comply with building regs, it is almost like a new build.

    You can get a retrospective certificate but it would involve opening up parts of the building for inspection and is likely to be very expensive.
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 13th Oct 16, 3:29 PM
    • 3,878 Posts
    • 3,450 Thanks
    davidmcn
    it seems their request may be reasonable. I think davidmcn has under played how much work needs to be done for a conversion to comply with building regs, it is almost like a new build.
    Originally posted by teneighty
    The OP suggested that the "conversion" wasn't much more than a change of use - if there were more significant alterations then they may have a point, but obviously you don't need anybody to "supervise" the fact that a room is now being used for domestic purposes rather than as an office, say.
    • Thrugelmir
    • By Thrugelmir 13th Oct 16, 3:59 PM
    • 51,285 Posts
    • 43,090 Thanks
    Thrugelmir
    The OP suggested that the "conversion" wasn't much more than a change of use - if there were more significant alterations then they may have a point, but obviously you don't need anybody to "supervise" the fact that a room is now being used for domestic purposes rather than as an office, say.
    Originally posted by davidmcn
    What's obviously at issue is the potential quality of the workmanship. I recall making an offer on a 1890's house that had undergone complete renovation. Looked stunning to the eye. Owner produced pages of photos showing the work undertaken. Due to the age had a full structural survey done. The report came back with pages and pages of "faults". Plus a down valuation of £45k. Due to the amount of work that was required to rectify this particular builders poor workmanship.
    “A man is rich who lives upon what he has. A man is poor who lives upon what is coming. A prudent man lives within his income, and saves against ‘a rainy day’.”
    • Canary_Yellow
    • By Canary_Yellow 13th Oct 16, 4:20 PM
    • 37 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Canary_Yellow
    teneighty - I'd obviously already read the CML guidance. You're leaping ahead. Who is to say that what has happened to my house is a "conversion" for the purposes of the CML guidance?


    It's a change of use, yes, but why is that necessarily also a "conversion" for CML purposes? That's the missing link.




    Thrugelmir - I see your point, but the warranty and PCC would only be in relation to structural matters, if nothing has structurally changed, then any shoddy workmanship by the builders would be irrelevant. Anyone can have work done to their house and a builder do a bad job, but that doesn't mean that a lender will require a structural warranty.




    Out of curiosity, what would be required in respect of a house that had an extension built? Would that require a PCC?
    • Thrugelmir
    • By Thrugelmir 13th Oct 16, 4:35 PM
    • 51,285 Posts
    • 43,090 Thanks
    Thrugelmir
    Anyone can have work done to their house and a builder do a bad job, but that doesn't mean that a lender will require a structural warranty.
    Originally posted by Canary_Yellow
    The developer is the one wanting to ensure that they sell the property at a price within the bounds of the p/ex deal as a whole. Like yourselves a potential purchaser will take whatever steps they feel necessary to satisfy themselves as to the condition of the property. To save money people spend less than they would having a second hand car checked over. Bizarre when you consider the sums of money involved. Ultimately it's the homeowner that loses out not the lender. If a property is subsequently found to be of diminished value.
    “A man is rich who lives upon what he has. A man is poor who lives upon what is coming. A prudent man lives within his income, and saves against ‘a rainy day’.”
    • Canary_Yellow
    • By Canary_Yellow 13th Oct 16, 4:39 PM
    • 37 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Canary_Yellow
    I understand that, but it doesn't really help me answer the question of whether a PCC would actually be required by a lender when someone comes to try and borrow against the property.


    We have a mortgage afterall, and I'm pretty sure we don't have a PCC....
    • teneighty
    • By teneighty 13th Oct 16, 6:25 PM
    • 801 Posts
    • 520 Thanks
    teneighty
    teneighty - I'd obviously already read the CML guidance. You're leaping ahead. Who is to say that what has happened to my house is a "conversion" for the purposes of the CML guidance?
    Originally posted by Canary_Yellow
    I don't know what the CML definition is but it has been converted from a commercial building to a residential building so sounds like a conversion to me. Under Building Regulations it will have to comply with all the current standards for parts B, C, E, F, H, J, L and P and possibly more depending on the scope of work.

    Like I said I haven't come across this before so interested to hear what the outcome is. There must be lots of these types of conversions/change of use that do not have PCC's so I suspect there is a way around it. Possibly you could make the argument that is was originally residential so it is a "reinstatement" of the original use rather than a "conversion".
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 13th Oct 16, 6:41 PM
    • 3,878 Posts
    • 3,450 Thanks
    davidmcn
    "Conversion" in CML terms is creating a dwelling by e.g. subdividing a larger building into flats - in which case you'd normally expect a 10 year NHBC (or equivalent) warranty from the builder, and failing that (because it's a one-off project or a smaller builder) you get a certificate from the architect or equivalent consultant.

    Merely changing the use of a building is not "conversion", and wouldn't make any sense if you look at the styles of PCC which refer to a building contract.

    You wouldn't expect this sort of thing for a normal extension to a house, knocking rooms together etc, fitting or relocating a kitchen/bathroom, so it doesn't sound like it makes sense here.
    • teneighty
    • By teneighty 13th Oct 16, 7:12 PM
    • 801 Posts
    • 520 Thanks
    teneighty
    "Conversion" in CML terms is creating a dwelling by e.g. subdividing a larger building into flats - in which case you'd normally expect a 10 year NHBC (or equivalent) warranty from the builder, and failing that (because it's a one-off project or a smaller builder) you get a certificate from the architect or equivalent consultant.

    Merely changing the use of a building is not "conversion", and wouldn't make any sense if you look at the styles of PCC which refer to a building contract.

    You wouldn't expect this sort of thing for a normal extension to a house, knocking rooms together etc, fitting or relocating a kitchen/bathroom, so it doesn't sound like it makes sense here.
    Originally posted by davidmcn
    That was the point I was trying to make, converting or changing a commercial building into a residential building is just as onerous as sub-dividing a building into flats, all the same building regulations apply (although with some differences obviously).

    It is not just a matter of sticking in a kitchen and bathroom.

    I don't follow the extension logic. If you build an extension you do not have to upgrade all the fire resistance, sound insulation, thermal insulation etc. etc. to the main house.
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 13th Oct 16, 7:42 PM
    • 3,878 Posts
    • 3,450 Thanks
    davidmcn
    That was the point I was trying to make, converting or changing a commercial building into a residential building is just as onerous as sub-dividing a building into flats, all the same building regulations apply (although with some differences obviously).

    It is not just a matter of sticking in a kitchen and bathroom.
    Originally posted by teneighty
    But this wasn't a "commercial building", it's a terraced house, which at some point has been used for commercial purposes and is now back to residential use. I've seen similar where the most significant works were rejigging the kitchen and bathrooms, no more than you might have had where the house had continually been in residential use.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

3,443Posts Today

6,577Users online

Martin's Twitter