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  • FIRST POST
    • Bellabum
    • By Bellabum 12th Oct 16, 1:08 PM
    • 4Posts
    • 1Thanks
    Bellabum
    Car dealer refusing a refund
    • #1
    • 12th Oct 16, 1:08 PM
    Car dealer refusing a refund 12th Oct 16 at 1:08 PM
    Bought a used car and in the advert it stated it had a Bose sound system, this alone can cost around £1800 to buy. Got the car home and there were some electrical faults with the car so had a mechanic take a look and he discovered that it was not a bose sound system it was just Bose speakers and the amplifier was another cheaper brand. Took the car back to the dealer and they are refusing to acknowledge any electrical faults but eventually (after they initially insisted that the sound system was Bose) admitted that it wasn't a Bose. They are refusing to refund the money even though the complaint was made within 30 days of purchase.
Page 1
    • Caz3121
    • By Caz3121 12th Oct 16, 1:56 PM
    • 9,960 Posts
    • 6,522 Thanks
    Caz3121
    • #2
    • 12th Oct 16, 1:56 PM
    • #2
    • 12th Oct 16, 1:56 PM
    have you asked them to fit a Bose system or refund the difference in value with and without?
    • Bellabum
    • By Bellabum 12th Oct 16, 1:59 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Bellabum
    • #3
    • 12th Oct 16, 1:59 PM
    • #3
    • 12th Oct 16, 1:59 PM
    They have said that they won't replace it or give any refund
    • bris
    • By bris 12th Oct 16, 2:00 PM
    • 6,140 Posts
    • 5,094 Thanks
    bris
    • #4
    • 12th Oct 16, 2:00 PM
    • #4
    • 12th Oct 16, 2:00 PM
    have you asked them to fit a Bose system or refund the difference in value with and without?
    Originally posted by Caz3121
    You can buy a second hand bose sound system on ebay for about £90 so the £1800 figure is an exaggeration to say the least.


    Have they breached the contract? With the Bose speakers maybe, maybe not not, but to base it on an £1800 difference is not going cut it, a reasonable person in the small claims court will however decide.
    • Bellabum
    • By Bellabum 12th Oct 16, 2:19 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Bellabum
    • #5
    • 12th Oct 16, 2:19 PM
    • #5
    • 12th Oct 16, 2:19 PM
    I've had an official quote from a reputable auto technician so the £1800 is not made up nor an exaggeration. This is the sound system that the car has when it comes off the production line and adds value to the car.
    • k3lvc
    • By k3lvc 12th Oct 16, 2:28 PM
    • 1,476 Posts
    • 2,261 Thanks
    k3lvc
    • #6
    • 12th Oct 16, 2:28 PM
    • #6
    • 12th Oct 16, 2:28 PM
    I've had an official quote from a reputable auto technician so the £1800 is not made up nor an exaggeration. This is the sound system that the car has when it comes off the production line and adds value to the car.
    Originally posted by Bellabum

    Depending on the car you'll be lucky to be able to retrofit one and get it working properly even if you can pick up the parts.


    Having been n your position before (albeit before parting with my cash for the car) did you not check before signing on the line if the Bose was a critical part of the deal ?


    In terms of moving forward was it a cash or credit transaction ?
    • Bellabum
    • By Bellabum 12th Oct 16, 4:43 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Bellabum
    • #7
    • 12th Oct 16, 4:43 PM
    • #7
    • 12th Oct 16, 4:43 PM
    As there was Bose speakers I was satisfied. The fact it had faults and someone took the car apart this is when I discovered it did not have the full sound system.

    The deposit was paid by credit card and the rest is being financed through a finance company.
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 12th Oct 16, 5:08 PM
    • 10,192 Posts
    • 7,352 Thanks
    unholyangel
    • #8
    • 12th Oct 16, 5:08 PM
    • #8
    • 12th Oct 16, 5:08 PM
    As there was Bose speakers I was satisfied. The fact it had faults and someone took the car apart this is when I discovered it did not have the full sound system.

    The deposit was paid by credit card and the rest is being financed through a finance company.
    Originally posted by Bellabum
    Start section 75 claims with both the card company and the finance company. They have joint & several liability for the contract - meaning you have the same rights against them as you do the retailer and you can choose to chase one of the three (3 = retailer, card company & finance company), two of the three, all three or none of them.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • shaun from Africa
    • By shaun from Africa 12th Oct 16, 5:17 PM
    • 8,689 Posts
    • 9,752 Thanks
    shaun from Africa
    • #9
    • 12th Oct 16, 5:17 PM
    • #9
    • 12th Oct 16, 5:17 PM
    Start section 75 claims with both the card company and the finance company.
    Originally posted by unholyangel
    Could that lead to long delays if both the CC company and the finance company start arguing between themselves over who should pay out? and then if they both agree liability, it may take longer to get the money as both finance suppliers may want confirmation from the other about how much in total is being paid.

    If it was me, I would stick to a S75 claim against either the CC company or finance company then if for some reason that failed, there would be no reason that I couldn't then pursue another claim against the other company.
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 12th Oct 16, 5:49 PM
    • 10,192 Posts
    • 7,352 Thanks
    unholyangel
    Could that lead to long delays if both the CC company and the finance company start arguing between themselves over who should pay out? and then if they both agree liability, it may take longer to get the money as both finance suppliers may want confirmation from the other about how much in total is being paid.

    If it was me, I would stick to a S75 claim against either the CC company or finance company then if for some reason that failed, there would be no reason that I couldn't then pursue another claim against the other company.
    Originally posted by shaun from Africa
    Joint & several liability means there is no "i'm only liable for £x amount, x company is liable for the rest".

    I'd expect at least one of them to reject the claim anyway - I was recommending starting a claim with both so OP can refer both to ombudsman at the same time rather than taking the possibly drawn out process of complaining to one, they reject, referring to ombudsman, they reject (for some reason) and then having to do it all over again. Where if OP refers them both to ombudsman at the same time, ombudsman can apportion liability as they see fit.

    The same way that when council tax has joint & several liability, the council can chase one or more parties for the full amount - irrelevant of individual persons willingness/readiness to pay any share of it.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • shaun from Africa
    • By shaun from Africa 12th Oct 16, 5:55 PM
    • 8,689 Posts
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    shaun from Africa
    Joint & several liability means there is no "i'm only liable for £x amount, x company is liable for the rest".
    Originally posted by unholyangel
    I realise that but if the OP thinks they are owed £1800 and starts claims for this amount with both companies, there is no way that both can be expected to pay out the full amount.
    This could possibly lead to them arguing between themselves as to how the sum of £1800 should be divided. Should it be 50% each, or maybe a different percentage depending on how much credit each company actually provided.
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 12th Oct 16, 7:14 PM
    • 10,192 Posts
    • 7,352 Thanks
    unholyangel
    I realise that but if the OP thinks they are owed £1800 and starts claims for this amount with both companies, there is no way that both can be expected to pay out the full amount.
    This could possibly lead to them arguing between themselves as to how the sum of £1800 should be divided. Should it be 50% each, or maybe a different percentage depending on how much credit each company actually provided.
    Originally posted by shaun from Africa
    They may try that approach (as I said, I'd expect at least one of them to try and reject the claim in the first instance because despite the law being clear, creditors will argue the toss rather than paying out), but thats not how things work legally and they should know that by now.

    They should know that if a consumer has a claim against the trader, they have a like for like claim against them and that they have the same liability as the retailer. Their liability is not reduced or restricted in any way just because another creditor was involved.

    Just like J&S liability in council tax. Doesn't matter what the individuals say about their "share" of the liability, its J&S liability which means they're liable for the full amount - even if other parties are willing to contribute to it. Its a third party situation basically. Your contractual liability to the council is for the full amount but you might have a claim against other parties to recoup the costs from them.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • forgotmyname
    • By forgotmyname 13th Oct 16, 12:06 AM
    • 23,281 Posts
    • 9,177 Thanks
    forgotmyname
    It didnt state brand new £1800 BOSE system just installed, its a used car that would have had a used system installed.

    The head unit would have been clearly visible when you viewed it so did that say BOSE? Or is it just the amp thats not BOSE?

    These can be picked up for less than £20. And they are standard fit in some cars and often fairly small and hidden. Your guy not not know where its located.
    Punctuation, Spelling and Grammar will be used sparingly. Due to rising costs of inflation.

    My contribution to MSE. Other contributions will only be used if they cost me nothing.

    Due to me being a tight git.
    • nyermen
    • By nyermen 13th Oct 16, 7:02 AM
    • 83 Posts
    • 71 Thanks
    nyermen
    I think several car manufacturers offer Bose as an option. Audi offer a bose speaker system, though not for as much as that, as it's just the speakers (and maybe amp?). Head unit is Audi's own as it's integrated into everything else such as the MMI display.

    Anyway, if I saw "Bose system", I would expect it to be whatever the specced option would have provided, unless it indicated specifically aftermarket. In the case of the Audi (those models with bose rather than B&O), it's a full surround sound system integrated into the car, with specific wiring looms, door tweeters, front central speaker, sub base in the boot, and more. The trim isn't "pre-prepared" for aftermarket retrofit. And more than that - the whole design of the underfloor of the boot is different (you loose boot space, as the floor is higher).

    Therefore I wouldn't just accept that it could be installed by a third party, but I might accept the original factory option cost, adjusted against current value (eg. if I bought car for 60% of list price, i'd expect 60% of the factory option cost).

    However as noted by others, if it's misadvertised, you have far better rights than that if you want.
    Last edited by nyermen; 13-10-2016 at 7:03 AM. Reason: I can't spell :)
    Peter

    Debt free - finally finished paying off £20k + Interest.
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