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  • FIRST POST
    • helenjones833
    • By helenjones833 12th Oct 16, 10:13 AM
    • 32Posts
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    helenjones833
    Car valuation deduction
    • #1
    • 12th Oct 16, 10:13 AM
    Car valuation deduction 12th Oct 16 at 10:13 AM
    I have had a car write off recently, which was not my fault (I was hit from behind and the vehicle crumpled to the extent that it is not economic to repair it). The insurance have come back with a valuation, but there are two issues with it:

    (1) their valuation using the Glass's retail price doesn't agree with the one I got in a Glass's report online. My report said £4560 and their's said £4260. Their email system was "down" this morning so they couldn't see my report and I will discuss that aspect with them later.

    (2) they have deducted £400 from the valuation (from £4260 to £3860) because there was cosmetic damage to the front bumper, (unrelated to the accident) and a scratch mark down the side of the car, which was done by a passing vandal during the night a few years ago.

    I wanted to get some opinions from you guys whether (2) is legitimate. Obviously if I buy a like for like car it is not likely to be scratched or damaged like that, and I haven't seen nay vehicles advertised with a price as low as what they are offering, so I would be out of pocket. Is it legitimate for them to deduct £400 for that, and would the ombudsman likely uphold that deduction?

    Thanks.
Page 1
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 12th Oct 16, 10:23 AM
    • 8,603 Posts
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    neilmcl
    • #2
    • 12th Oct 16, 10:23 AM
    • #2
    • 12th Oct 16, 10:23 AM
    You're entitled for a like-for-like, retail replacement value based on the condition of you car prior to the accident. If you disagree with the valuation then you'll need to show equivalent cars being offered for sale with similar pre-accident damage as yours. Personally I'd say a deduction for existing damage is fair.
    • helenjones833
    • By helenjones833 12th Oct 16, 10:34 AM
    • 32 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    helenjones833
    • #3
    • 12th Oct 16, 10:34 AM
    • #3
    • 12th Oct 16, 10:34 AM
    You're entitled for a like-for-like, retail replacement value based on the condition of you car prior to the accident. If you disagree with the valuation then you'll need to show equivalent cars being offered for sale with similar pre-accident damage as yours. Personally I'd say a deduction for existing damage is fair.
    Originally posted by neilmcl
    Well fair enough, and thanks for the reply. That's going to be quite difficult though - I'm not sure where to find cars with damage of this nature, they're not really on sale. And for another thing, my car is slightly unusual in that it's 9 years old but with only 57k miles on the clock, so finding like for likes of any description is also more tricky. One thing though, there are no cars on Parkers advertised for under £4k that have this sort of age/mileage profile. To get any sort of similar car I'm clearly going to end up possibly a £400 to £1000 out of pocket which doesn't seem fair to me. Because like for like just isn't really available out there. I don't mind much about cosmetic damage, but the car itself was in good nick.
    • Oakdene
    • By Oakdene 12th Oct 16, 10:37 AM
    • 502 Posts
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    Oakdene
    • #4
    • 12th Oct 16, 10:37 AM
    • #4
    • 12th Oct 16, 10:37 AM
    Look for a car that is the same model as yours that is in good condition (i.e. without the "cosmetic damage to the front bumper, (unrelated to the accident) and a scratch mark down the side of the car" & see what is for sale for, then you take the £400 off that...

    Also whats your make, model & spec Im sure someone will find some online...
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 12th Oct 16, 10:38 AM
    • 8,603 Posts
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    neilmcl
    • #5
    • 12th Oct 16, 10:38 AM
    • #5
    • 12th Oct 16, 10:38 AM
    Well fair enough, and thanks for the reply. That's going to be quite difficult though - I'm not sure where to find cars with damage of this nature, they're not really on sale.
    Originally posted by helenjones833
    Well that's kind of the point isn't it. Damage of this nature would have probably been fixed prior to retail sale therefore costing more than yours was worth.
    • helenjones833
    • By helenjones833 12th Oct 16, 11:04 AM
    • 32 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    helenjones833
    • #6
    • 12th Oct 16, 11:04 AM
    • #6
    • 12th Oct 16, 11:04 AM
    Look for a car that is the same model as yours that is in good condition (i.e. without the "cosmetic damage to the front bumper, (unrelated to the accident) and a scratch mark down the side of the car" & see what is for sale for, then you take the £400 off that...

    Also whats your make, model & spec Im sure someone will find some online...
    Originally posted by Oakdene
    It's a 2008 (57) Skoda Octavia Ambiente 1.9 TDI, 56,500 miles on the clock.
    • straighttalker
    • By straighttalker 12th Oct 16, 11:07 AM
    • 701 Posts
    • 557 Thanks
    straighttalker
    • #7
    • 12th Oct 16, 11:07 AM
    • #7
    • 12th Oct 16, 11:07 AM
    The insurance company will send an engineer down to damage your new car in the same manner as your old one.
    • helenjones833
    • By helenjones833 12th Oct 16, 11:10 AM
    • 32 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    helenjones833
    • #8
    • 12th Oct 16, 11:10 AM
    • #8
    • 12th Oct 16, 11:10 AM
    The insurance company will send an engineer down to damage your new car in the same manner as your old one.
    Originally posted by straighttalker
    Ha ha ha, now I wish I had that job.
    • Oakdene
    • By Oakdene 12th Oct 16, 11:10 AM
    • 502 Posts
    • 678 Thanks
    Oakdene
    • #9
    • 12th Oct 16, 11:10 AM
    • #9
    • 12th Oct 16, 11:10 AM
    It's a 2008 (57) Skoda Octavia Ambiente 1.9 TDI, 56,500 miles on the clock.
    Originally posted by helenjones833
    A very quick search shows http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201606205081844?postcode=sa732pd&sort=price-asc&year-from=2008&aggregatedTrim=Ambiente&maximum-mileage=60000&year-to=2008&minimum-mileage=40000&make=SKODA&advertising-location=at_cars&model=OCTAVIA&radius=1500&onesear chad=Used&page=1

    Realise its a 1.6tdi but the mileage is similar...

    This one has a bit more mileage http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2008-58-SKODA-OCTAVIA-1-9-AMBIENTE-TDI-5D-103-BHP-DIESEL-/252574755980?hash=item3acea0ec8c:g:5y4AAOSw-CpX-ZEF
    • BeenThroughItAll
    • By BeenThroughItAll 12th Oct 16, 12:24 PM
    • 3,463 Posts
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    BeenThroughItAll
    £3800 for a damaged 9yo Octavia is entirely sensible. As shown above, you can buy a replacement with similar mileage for four grand without dents and scratches all over it.
    • dannyrst
    • By dannyrst 12th Oct 16, 12:52 PM
    • 1,228 Posts
    • 588 Thanks
    dannyrst
    Don't forget, unless you are terrible at buying cars, you won't be paying the price on the window.
    • loskie
    • By loskie 12th Oct 16, 1:25 PM
    • 926 Posts
    • 528 Thanks
    loskie
    Haggle a bit with the insurance co they will raise their first offer by a wee bit but don't be greedy, be polite and friendly whilst doing it.
    • helenjones833
    • By helenjones833 12th Oct 16, 1:45 PM
    • 32 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    helenjones833
    OK, thanks all for the advice. Just one more question, then, is the consensus that £400 is a fair deduction for the damage? I'll be honest, it seems steep to me, mainly because it's 10% of the value of the car, which sounds a lot when this is a car I was anticipating would last me for probably five or more years after this, given the low mileage and reasonable condition of the engine.
    • Oakdene
    • By Oakdene 12th Oct 16, 1:47 PM
    • 502 Posts
    • 678 Thanks
    Oakdene
    Well I guess you could always see if a local bodyshop could tell you how much it would cost to repair the issues, though given its a WO Im unsure if you can take it to a bodyshop?
    • maddogb
    • By maddogb 12th Oct 16, 2:47 PM
    • 422 Posts
    • 63 Thanks
    maddogb
    You are entitled to the £4560, the deduction is about right and you will have little success arguing against that.
    It has taken me a nearly a year and the threat of court action to get a similar value for a car two years younger in pristine condition, mileage on a diesel is negligible
    • interstellaflyer
    • By interstellaflyer 12th Oct 16, 4:17 PM
    • 1,481 Posts
    • 873 Thanks
    interstellaflyer
    mileage on a diesel is negligible
    Originally posted by maddogb
    It could count as a negative, low milage (for age) on a modern diesel is not usually seen as a good thing
    I hate football and do wish people wouldn't keep talking about it like it's the most important thing in the world
    • helenjones833
    • By helenjones833 12th Oct 16, 4:29 PM
    • 32 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    helenjones833
    You are entitled to the £4560, the deduction is about right and you will have little success arguing against that.
    It has taken me a nearly a year and the threat of court action to get a similar value for a car two years younger in pristine condition, mileage on a diesel is negligible
    Originally posted by maddogb
    So, they have now fun a "CAP / HPI" check, which has come up with a revised figure of £3956, after factoring in the damage.

    On the Glass's one, they're claiming that £4560 that my Glass's report lists for Dealer Retail Price is the "advertised selling price" rather than the price that the cars actually sell for, and that they use the latter. The report I ordered had no such figure, so I'm not sure if they're telling the truth on that one. Do insurance companies get a different figure from Glass's?
    • dacouch
    • By dacouch 12th Oct 16, 5:56 PM
    • 19,737 Posts
    • 12,107 Thanks
    dacouch
    So, they have now fun a "CAP / HPI" check, which has come up with a revised figure of £3956, after factoring in the damage.

    On the Glass's one, they're claiming that £4560 that my Glass's report lists for Dealer Retail Price is the "advertised selling price" rather than the price that the cars actually sell for, and that they use the latter. The report I ordered had no such figure, so I'm not sure if they're telling the truth on that one. Do insurance companies get a different figure from Glass's?
    Originally posted by helenjones833
    Bear in mind that the Glass's guide you (The public) have access to specifically states in the T&Cs that it is not to be used for the purposes of valuations for Insurance purposes.

    As Danny has mentioned, advertised prices are regarded as the starting price the seller is prepared to start negotiating downwards from.

    There are a few motortraders who frequent this part of MSE, they may well be able to confirm whether the existing damage to the vehicle has the financial impact to the value of the car as the amount the Insurers say.

    Personally I would say it would affect the value by £400 as you mention a scratch from a vandal down the side of the car which makes it sound like it's over more than one panel.

    Have a read of this link from the Ombudsman, I recommend you read it a couple of times as it is how the Ombudsman expects the Insurer to value the car.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20150320001942/http://financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/technical_notes/motor-valuation.html

    Pay particular attention to the following as it may help you.

    "6. if the guides show different values

    Our general approach is to consider whether the insurer's offer is a reasonable one in the light of valuations from the three guides.

    If the figure in one guide is significantly out of line with the other two, we are likely to disregard the out-of-line figure – whether it is higher or lower. We are unlikely to decide that the insurer’s offer is reasonable if it is based on, or takes into account, a significantly lower figure.

    For example, where the insurer offered £7,000 in line with guide A:

    if guide B gives a figure of £7,000 also, but guide C gives a figure of £7,500, we are likely to consider the offer reasonable – because it is generally in line with of the range of values contained in the three guides;

    if guide B gives a figure of £6,800 and guide C gives a figure of £7,200, we are likely to consider the offer reasonable – because the differences are not significant;

    if both guide B and guide C give a figure of £8,000, we are likely to consider the offer is less than reasonable – because it is significantly out of line with two of the three guides.

    What is considered a “significant” difference will vary with the value of the vehicle. A variation of £200 may be insignificant for a vehicle worth about £7,000 – but significant for a vehicle only worth about £1,000. A variation of £100 or less will not usually be significant."

    You don't mention the value your Insurer's have obtained from Parkers. If they have not obtained one, ask them to arrange a value from it as they should be using all three.

    As others have mentioned, it's often fairly easy to negotiate an extra £200 to £400 as it's often easier for an Insurer to just agree so they can close the claim.
    • helenjones833
    • By helenjones833 26th Oct 16, 11:57 AM
    • 32 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    helenjones833
    Hi, just a quick update - the insurance company are playing hardball. They say they can't squeeze a single extra penny out, even though it would cost them £550 if I go to the Ombudsman.

    Everyone tells me they usually pay out an extra £100-£200 to settle the case, but they are refusing to do so.

    Thanks.
    • jimjames
    • By jimjames 26th Oct 16, 1:08 PM
    • 10,841 Posts
    • 8,913 Thanks
    jimjames
    OK, thanks all for the advice. Just one more question, then, is the consensus that £400 is a fair deduction for the damage? I'll be honest, it seems steep to me, mainly because it's 10% of the value of the car, which sounds a lot when this is a car I was anticipating would last me for probably five or more years after this, given the low mileage and reasonable condition of the engine.
    Originally posted by helenjones833
    It would be the same to repair a £400 car when the damage is 100% of the value. Spraying one side of the car is likely to be that sort of price.
    Based on the links already given the value doesn't seem massively out of line.
    Last edited by jimjames; 26-10-2016 at 1:10 PM.
    Remember the saying: if it looks too good to be true it almost certainly is.
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