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    • chelseablue
    • By chelseablue 12th Oct 16, 9:24 AM
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    chelseablue
    Can they make me redundant and keep a temp on?
    • #1
    • 12th Oct 16, 9:24 AM
    Can they make me redundant and keep a temp on? 12th Oct 16 at 9:24 AM
    It was announced yesterday that my company will need to make approx. 8 people redundant next month, all from the office staff so I could be one of them


    We have a lady working here as a temp in an Admin role


    If I am selected for redundancy (I am a permanent employee) but they keep the temp on, is this allowed?
    Baby Boy born May 2014

    Mortgage starting balance 26.02.16 £231,294
Page 1
    • TBagpuss
    • By TBagpuss 12th Oct 16, 9:42 AM
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    TBagpuss
    • #2
    • 12th Oct 16, 9:42 AM
    • #2
    • 12th Oct 16, 9:42 AM
    It depends on what the roles concerned are, I think.

    If you are both doing the same job then it may be dificult for them to argue that the role was redundant, if they are retaining someone to do it.

    However, they may be able to argue that the temp is doing a different role.

    Depending on how long the temp has ben there and what their contract sayus they may also have some employ,ent rights and may also be in the redunadncy 'pool'
    • chelseablue
    • By chelseablue 12th Oct 16, 9:45 AM
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    chelseablue
    • #3
    • 12th Oct 16, 9:45 AM
    • #3
    • 12th Oct 16, 9:45 AM
    Thank you


    The temp currently does a different role to me


    She's been here about 8 months
    Baby Boy born May 2014

    Mortgage starting balance 26.02.16 £231,294
    • MEM62
    • By MEM62 12th Oct 16, 10:25 AM
    • 953 Posts
    • 623 Thanks
    MEM62
    • #4
    • 12th Oct 16, 10:25 AM
    • #4
    • 12th Oct 16, 10:25 AM
    Thank you


    The temp currently does a different role to me


    She's been here about 8 months
    Originally posted by chelseablue

    If you are selected for redundancy, you could discuss the prospect of taking over her duties if you are duly qualified / experienced. I would hope that your employer would look at this sympathetically but it would depend on the overall staff structure that they need to achieve post-redundancy exercise.
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 12th Oct 16, 11:28 AM
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    sangie595
    • #5
    • 12th Oct 16, 11:28 AM
    • #5
    • 12th Oct 16, 11:28 AM
    There are often sound business cases around keeping on a temp, as they can be terminated quickly and easily when there is no longer any demand for their services. But in the final analysis, this person does a different job, so yes, your employer can keep them and make you redundant. Even if they did the same job, they could do the same thing - but then they would have to have a selection process. Being a temp doesn't mean that they have to go first.
    • asajj
    • By asajj 12th Oct 16, 3:33 PM
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    asajj
    • #6
    • 12th Oct 16, 3:33 PM
    • #6
    • 12th Oct 16, 3:33 PM
    As above, temps in long term is less liability for the company. It is very common therefore companies will bring in temps while making others redundant.
    £2015 in 2015 / £2015

    No buying unnecessary stuff.
    Clearing out by selling on Ebay, donating to charity etc.
    • chelseablue
    • By chelseablue 12th Oct 16, 3:35 PM
    • 1,848 Posts
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    chelseablue
    • #7
    • 12th Oct 16, 3:35 PM
    • #7
    • 12th Oct 16, 3:35 PM
    Thank you all


    I've applied for about 5 jobs today. Got a telephone interview next week


    Wish me luck!
    Baby Boy born May 2014

    Mortgage starting balance 26.02.16 £231,294
    • MEM62
    • By MEM62 13th Oct 16, 10:22 AM
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    MEM62
    • #8
    • 13th Oct 16, 10:22 AM
    • #8
    • 13th Oct 16, 10:22 AM
    As above, temps in long term is less liability for the company. It is very common therefore companies will bring in temps while making others redundant.
    Originally posted by asajj
    Two risk for companies there. Firstly - they cannot argue that a particular job function is redundant is they have to take on additional resources to cover it. So the justification for redundancies is easily challenged. Secondly - a temp that has been in a job for a long period of time can argue that the position is not temporary and that they should be given a permanent position. The employer would need to have a very strong case to reject this.
    • asajj
    • By asajj 13th Oct 16, 1:27 PM
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    asajj
    • #9
    • 13th Oct 16, 1:27 PM
    • #9
    • 13th Oct 16, 1:27 PM
    I'm not talking about companies bringing temps into the roles that are being made redundant.

    I never have seen any temp argued that the role should be permanent - and I have seen temps doing the job for 2+ years. Probably because they are paid more usually than the permanent position.
    £2015 in 2015 / £2015

    No buying unnecessary stuff.
    Clearing out by selling on Ebay, donating to charity etc.
    • MEM62
    • By MEM62 18th Oct 16, 2:42 PM
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    MEM62
    I never have seen any temp argued that the role should be permanent
    Originally posted by asajj
    I currently have two employees that are now permanent after having successfully made that vey argument.
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 18th Oct 16, 3:39 PM
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    sangie595
    And it is also rather irrelevant anyway, because "permanent" is meaningless. If a "temp" has two years service then they have exactly the same employment rights, in all respects, as any other employee with two years service. If a permanent employment has less than two years service, then they have exactly the same rights as the temp - i.e. almost none. The only time it would make a difference is if the temp was an agency worker, and in respect of the OP's question, then it would be fine to keep an agency worker on whilst making redundancies elsewhere. It's an easy case to make.
    • chelseablue
    • By chelseablue 18th Oct 16, 3:43 PM
    • 1,848 Posts
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    chelseablue
    Thank you all.


    Should find out first week of November who is at risk
    Baby Boy born May 2014

    Mortgage starting balance 26.02.16 £231,294
    • MEM62
    • By MEM62 19th Oct 16, 9:43 AM
    • 953 Posts
    • 623 Thanks
    MEM62
    And it is also rather irrelevant anyway, because "permanent" is meaningless. If a "temp" has two years service then they have exactly the same employment rights, in all respects, as any other employee with two years service. If a permanent employment has less than two years service, then they have exactly the same rights as the temp - i.e. almost none. The only time it would make a difference is if the temp was an agency worker, and in respect of the OP's question, then it would be fine to keep an agency worker on whilst making redundancies elsewhere. It's an easy case to make.
    Originally posted by sangie595
    Hardly irrelevant from an employers point of view when temporary staff and permanent staff are managed in different ways and the administration of their employment is completely different.

    In respect of the original point I made I stand by my opinion. Redundancy would be difficult to justify if the company involved has to cover the work or 'job' that is no longer supposed to exist with temporary staff. In that case the job clearly still exists.
    • asajj
    • By asajj 21st Oct 16, 10:24 PM
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    asajj
    I currently have two employees that are now permanent after having successfully made that very argument.
    Originally posted by MEM62
    Great for them. I work in large organisations and all temps were paid my monthly salary within a week so they weren't willing to become permanent employees even when the company offered them to do so. There are other temp jobs outside for them to do it anyway so they could just leave.

    Op already stated that this person does a different role. Usually, when they go towards redundancy, business transformation etc they change the role descriptions and create new ones (as part of a new structure/renewed function) so they can also argue that the role is different.
    £2015 in 2015 / £2015

    No buying unnecessary stuff.
    Clearing out by selling on Ebay, donating to charity etc.
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