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    • Robin9
    • By Robin9 12th Oct 16, 8:50 AM
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    Robin9
    Fire Door Specification
    • #1
    • 12th Oct 16, 8:50 AM
    Fire Door Specification 12th Oct 16 at 8:50 AM
    I need to replace the existing door to a flat by a fire door and frame

    Does anyone have a suitable spec ?
Page 1
    • eddddy
    • By eddddy 12th Oct 16, 11:23 AM
    • 3,826 Posts
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    eddddy
    • #2
    • 12th Oct 16, 11:23 AM
    • #2
    • 12th Oct 16, 11:23 AM
    The spec will either be a 30 minute or 60 minute fire door and frame. (That's the time that they will contain a fire.)

    I assume that whoever has told you to fit a fire door will have said which spec you need.

    Just google '30 minute fire door' or ask at a DIY shed or other door seller.

    You'll find many examples of doors designed to meet that spec.
    • Robin9
    • By Robin9 12th Oct 16, 11:53 AM
    • 1,078 Posts
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    Robin9
    • #3
    • 12th Oct 16, 11:53 AM
    • #3
    • 12th Oct 16, 11:53 AM
    The requirement hasn’t come from a person – its from legislation in the Form of the Fire reform Act, which talks in terms of Fire risk Assessment. Having done that we consider that the doors should be replaced - the existing are a standard composite door of the 1970’s.

    The flat is one of 6 in a 3 storey block all in private ownership – 2 owner occupied, 4 tenanted - communal entrance leading to the flats .

    I need to get a spec together so that I, on behalf of the owners can go to tender – I reckon FD30, new frame, hinges, retardant strip, wire reinforced glazed window, no letter box, ironmongery. I need something a little bit professional for the tender.

    I believe that the installation needs to be certified – so that rules out my local carpenter.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 12th Oct 16, 12:01 PM
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    G_M
    • #4
    • 12th Oct 16, 12:01 PM
    • #4
    • 12th Oct 16, 12:01 PM
    I assume you need 6 of these yes?

    It's not the communal entrance door you are considering?
    • anselld
    • By anselld 12th Oct 16, 12:25 PM
    • 4,865 Posts
    • 4,318 Thanks
    anselld
    • #5
    • 12th Oct 16, 12:25 PM
    • #5
    • 12th Oct 16, 12:25 PM
    The requirement hasn’t come from a person – its from legislation in the Form of the Fire reform Act, which talks in terms of Fire risk Assessment. Having done that we consider that the doors should be replaced - the existing are a standard composite door of the 1970’s.

    The flat is one of 6 in a 3 storey block all in private ownership – 2 owner occupied, 4 tenanted - communal entrance leading to the flats .

    I need to get a spec together so that I, on behalf of the owners can go to tender – I reckon FD30, new frame, hinges, retardant strip, wire reinforced glazed window, no letter box, ironmongery. I need something a little bit professional for the tender.

    I believe that the installation needs to be certified – so that rules out my local carpenter.
    Originally posted by Robin9
    If you state FD30 then most carpenters should know what that entails. I don't think you need to change the door lining, but 3x fire hinges, intumescent strips and he correct closer. You can buy fire rated letter boxes if you wish. If they are front doors then it will be cheaper to not have glass. Also be careful what you decorate with, I think you should not use oil based coatings.
    • Soundgirlrocks
    • By Soundgirlrocks 12th Oct 16, 12:35 PM
    • 344 Posts
    • 476 Thanks
    Soundgirlrocks
    • #6
    • 12th Oct 16, 12:35 PM
    • #6
    • 12th Oct 16, 12:35 PM
    The requirement hasn’t come from a person – its from legislation in the Form of the Fire reform Act, which talks in terms of Fire risk Assessment. Having done that we consider that the doors should be replaced - the existing are a standard composite door of the 1970’s.

    The flat is one of 6 in a 3 storey block all in private ownership – 2 owner occupied, 4 tenanted - communal entrance leading to the flats .

    I need to get a spec together so that I, on behalf of the owners can go to tender – I reckon FD30, new frame, hinges, retardant strip, wire reinforced glazed window, no letter box, ironmongery. I need something a little bit professional for the tender.

    I believe that the installation needs to be certified – so that rules out my local carpenter.
    Originally posted by Robin9
    Watching with interest we are in the exact same situation at our block, I need to go through the whole section 20 consultation process. Ive had a rough costing and am expecting it to be in the region of £3k which seems very expensive. OP please keep us posted.
    Back in the red again but proud to have delt with my debts once so I can do it again!
    • eddddy
    • By eddddy 12th Oct 16, 12:56 PM
    • 3,826 Posts
    • 3,470 Thanks
    eddddy
    • #7
    • 12th Oct 16, 12:56 PM
    • #7
    • 12th Oct 16, 12:56 PM
    In your position I wouldn't attempt to write a detailed spec. You're not the 'professional', it's the person who is fitting the door who is the 'professional'.

    In the tender, I would be telling suppliers that I need fire doors that meet the requirements of the Fire Reform Act 2007, and that will pass a fire officer's inspection (or whatever).

    The suppliers should then tell you what spec they will use (which you can double check and query, if required).

    Because if you make a mistake in a spec, and the doors fail inspection, you are liable. But if the supplier makes a mistake in the spec, and the doors fail inspection they are more likely to be liable.


    (Just like you wouldn't tell a mechanic what spec of brakes to fit to your car - if they fit the wrong spec and it fails the MOT as a result, you expect the mechanic to sort it out.)
    • red40
    • By red40 12th Oct 16, 1:28 PM
    • 235 Posts
    • 294 Thanks
    red40
    • #8
    • 12th Oct 16, 1:28 PM
    • #8
    • 12th Oct 16, 1:28 PM
    OP you would be best choosing the appropriate fire door, obtain the manufacturer and fire door model number and go onto their website and download the third party certification.

    Certainly do not leave the existing door frame in as it would not be tested by an accredited test station as a complete set. All fire doors sold in the UK are required to have third party certification, whether its a fire door from Premdor, Jeld-Wen, etc they have all been placed on a rig with a complete door frame and door furniture and tested to ensure it meets the British or European standard to attain the 20, 30 or 60, etc standard.

    OP you can always look at the British Woodworking Federation website for fire door installers http://www.bwfcertifire.org.uk/fire-door-safety/fire-door-installers-register

    If you need to do your own specification, choose a fire door, identify the manufacturer and door number and look on their website for the third party certification. Always stick to the door spec http://www.bwfcertifire.org.uk/fire-door-safety/stay-safe-stick-to-the-spec

    Below is the link for a Premdor fire door third party certification. Generally CF198 and CF380 are the doors I see the most fitted. Go to the data sheet, that will give you the relevant specification for door frame size, density, door furniture, gaps around the head and sides, etc. Any fire door needs to be fitted to the third party certification.

    http://www.premdor.co.uk/downloads/fire-certificates

    All fire door manufacturers will have a similar third party certification to show that they have been suitably tested to the required minimum British or alternatively the European safety standards.

    HTH
    Last edited by red40; 12-10-2016 at 1:32 PM.

    • Robin9
    • By Robin9 14th Oct 16, 8:20 PM
    • 1,078 Posts
    • 651 Thanks
    Robin9
    • #9
    • 14th Oct 16, 8:20 PM
    • #9
    • 14th Oct 16, 8:20 PM
    Watching with interest we are in the exact same situation at our block, I need to go through the whole section 20 consultation process. Ive had a rough costing and am expecting it to be in the region of £3k which seems very expensive. OP please keep us posted.
    Originally posted by Soundgirlrocks
    My initial thoughts are that probably £300/£400 per door - its surprising how much hinges and locks add up to.

    My ignorance - what's section 20 ?
    • eddddy
    • By eddddy 14th Oct 16, 9:45 PM
    • 3,826 Posts
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    eddddy
    My ignorance - what's section 20 ?
    Originally posted by Robin9
    If a freeholder is doing works on a building and the cost to each leaseholder will be over £250 - the freeholder must carry out a section 20 consultation.

    If the freeholder doesn't do this, the leaseholders do not have to pay the freeholder for the work.

    In your case, if the work is more than £250 per flat, perhaps the 6 leaseholders are volunteering to pay - which is fine.

    But if one or more of them refuse to pay, you can't force them to - unless you've done a section 20 consultation.


    (Unless perhaps you are joint freeholders, and you have all entered into some agreement as joint freeholders to share costs.)
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