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  • FIRST POST
    • crazycraic
    • By crazycraic 11th Oct 16, 10:00 PM
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    crazycraic
    Contrat Notice - Longer Period?
    • #1
    • 11th Oct 16, 10:00 PM
    Contrat Notice - Longer Period? 11th Oct 16 at 10:00 PM
    Hey,

    I shall be making a move abroad, quite possibly after Christmas, and i've been thinking about the notice period i will have to give.

    Currently employed by a Local Authority and my contract states i will have to give your standard one month's notice. I have been contemplating handing it in soon, stating i intend to leave on such a date in January 2017.

    As this would be more than a month's notice, more than my contract agreement requires, could they legally get rid of me after four weeks? I'm hoping to secure a casual contract with them, thinking a longer period of notice would give more time to discuss this option...

    Would my employer's HR be able to advise me on this?

    Thanks ")
Page 1
    • gettingtheresometime
    • By gettingtheresometime 11th Oct 16, 10:30 PM
    • 1,734 Posts
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    gettingtheresometime
    • #2
    • 11th Oct 16, 10:30 PM
    • #2
    • 11th Oct 16, 10:30 PM
    If you're planning on leaving in January why say anything until you have to?

    If you handed your notice into me now then I'd expect you to leave after a month, not when it suited you
    Lloyds OD / Natwest OD / PO CC cleared thanks to the 1 debt v 100 day challenge
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 12th Oct 16, 8:08 AM
    • 2,735 Posts
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    sangie595
    • #3
    • 12th Oct 16, 8:08 AM
    • #3
    • 12th Oct 16, 8:08 AM
    A local authority will not attempt to get rid of you any quicker, and will doubtless appreciate the additional notice. There is no reason not to give them more warning - especially if you are hoping for them to do something for you!
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 12th Oct 16, 8:13 AM
    • 2,663 Posts
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    TELLIT01
    • #4
    • 12th Oct 16, 8:13 AM
    • #4
    • 12th Oct 16, 8:13 AM
    I'm no expert on the subject, but from the employer's viewpoint my thought process would be -
    I know x is leaving in January.
    He has given us more than one month notice
    I should start recruiting, or training somebody for the job, now
    If I have somebody in place before the proposed leaving date I will let / make them leave early.

    Whether they can do that if they initially accept your notice as leaving in January, I don't know. It would be a concern for me.
    You may also find that public sector organisations will not re-employ people, even on a casual contract, for a period after they left. My niece fell foul of that issue. She had worked for Royal Mail and left about 3 years ago. She moved area and applied for a job in the new area. The recruitment company told her she had been successful, but a few days later she received a letter apologising and she couldn't have the job because of the date of her previous employment.

    Bottom line, I would only hand my notice in when I had to.
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 12th Oct 16, 8:49 AM
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    sangie595
    • #5
    • 12th Oct 16, 8:49 AM
    • #5
    • 12th Oct 16, 8:49 AM
    I'm no expert on the subject, but from the employer's viewpoint my thought process would be -
    I know x is leaving in January.
    He has given us more than one month notice
    I should start recruiting, or training somebody for the job, now
    If I have somebody in place before the proposed leaving date I will let / make them leave early.

    Whether they can do that if they initially accept your notice as leaving in January, I don't know. It would be a concern for me.
    You may also find that public sector organisations will not re-employ people, even on a casual contract, for a period after they left. My niece fell foul of that issue. She had worked for Royal Mail and left about 3 years ago. She moved area and applied for a job in the new area. The recruitment company told her she had been successful, but a few days later she received a letter apologising and she couldn't have the job because of the date of her previous employment.

    Bottom line, I would only hand my notice in when I had to.
    Originally posted by TELLIT01

    That may be what you would do. I can tell you for a fact that it is not what a local authority will do. They will not dismiss early. Not unless you do something to warrant it. They are risk adverse when it comes to tribunals, and that would be unfair dismissal without a doubt. They are also chock full of processes to stop this sort of thing happening. It would take so long to dismiss that they wouldn't get around to it until next March!

    Local authorities often employ former employees. In fact it is common. There are some regulations around redundancy / retirement in some authorities, but that does not apply here. If they have good business grounds to take the OP on as a casual, they will. If they don't, they won't.
    • Undervalued
    • By Undervalued 12th Oct 16, 8:56 AM
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    Undervalued
    • #6
    • 12th Oct 16, 8:56 AM
    • #6
    • 12th Oct 16, 8:56 AM
    That may be what you would do. I can tell you for a fact that it is not what a local authority will do. They will not dismiss early. Not unless you do something to warrant it. They are risk adverse when it comes to tribunals, and that would be unfair dismissal without a doubt. They are also chock full of processes to stop this sort of thing happening. It would take so long to dismiss that they wouldn't get around to it until next March!

    Local authorities often employ former employees. In fact it is common. There are some regulations around redundancy / retirement in some authorities, but that does not apply here. If they have good business grounds to take the OP on as a casual, they will. If they don't, they won't.
    Originally posted by sangie595
    True. However the other downside to giving notice early would be if, however unlikely, the OP's plans were to change. Some unexpected family emergency or war breaking out in the country he is moving to perhaps! If that were to happen he would need the employer's agreement to cancel his notice and it is always possible they might refuse.
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 12th Oct 16, 10:02 AM
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    sangie595
    • #7
    • 12th Oct 16, 10:02 AM
    • #7
    • 12th Oct 16, 10:02 AM
    True. However the other downside to giving notice early would be if, however unlikely, the OP's plans were to change. Some unexpected family emergency or war breaking out in the country he is moving to perhaps! If that were to happen he would need the employer's agreement to cancel his notice and it is always possible they might refuse.
    Originally posted by Undervalued
    True. But, as you say, unlikely. It depends on what the OP thinks would change their mind. - they could simply inform them now without actually handing in their notice as long as they are careful with how they word it, but I wouldn't leave it all to the last moment if they are hoping to even try to negotiate a "favour".
    • ohreally
    • By ohreally 12th Oct 16, 10:36 AM
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    ohreally
    • #8
    • 12th Oct 16, 10:36 AM
    • #8
    • 12th Oct 16, 10:36 AM
    Provide your contractual notice or you could be on the receiving end of an early exit.
    Imagination is a mental faculty that serves as a coping mechanism for those who can't or won't accept reality - unicorns and dragons and wives who don't nag, are all figments of the "imagination".

    Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world.
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 12th Oct 16, 10:53 AM
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    sangie595
    • #9
    • 12th Oct 16, 10:53 AM
    • #9
    • 12th Oct 16, 10:53 AM
    Provide your contractual notice or you could be on the receiving end of an early exit.
    Originally posted by ohreally
    Really? On what basis? People cannot be dismissed because they are resigning. It would still be unfair dismissal. Perhaps other employers act like this - although it would be a very risky proposition for them. But local authorities do not. Giving more than the required notice is far from unusual.
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 12th Oct 16, 1:47 PM
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    TELLIT01
    That may be what you would do. I can tell you for a fact that it is not what a local authority will do.
    Originally posted by sangie595
    I didn't say it was what I would do, I said it could be the employer's thought process. I also said I didn't know whether or not they could do it.

    I wonder how you can speak with such certainly for ALL local authorities.
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 12th Oct 16, 2:36 PM
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    sangie595
    I didn't say it was what I would do, I said it could be the employer's thought process. I also said I didn't know whether or not they could do it.

    I wonder how you can speak with such certainly for ALL local authorities.
    Originally posted by TELLIT01
    On this issue, easily. Processes for dismissal are nationally agreed and in accordance with the law. So, in order to dismiss they will need a reason that complies with a legally fair dismissal. They will need to convince HR of that. Then they will need to begin the process. Which, in itself, takes several weeks up. If they then get to a stage where the process is legally fair as a dismissal, then that would be beyond the point at which the OP is resigning. So the OP will be laughing all the way to the bank anyway, having got all that full pay AND notice pay on top of it. Of course if it isn't a legally fair dismissal, then the OP simply needs to start a tribunal and they will be laughing all the way to the bank even more.

    It's very simple really. Local authorities can be stupid employers. They can be bad employers. But they are a long way off being on another planet! They will not dismiss someone for resigning! On the other hand, the OP is hoping that they want him or her enough to throw some more work their way. They aren't likely to be inclined to do that when someone drops the bomb that they are packing up and leaving at the end of the month. Yes they knew for months but decided to say nothing at all. Is that likely to be conducive to the OP continuing an emptying relationship with them?
    • Gavin83
    • By Gavin83 12th Oct 16, 3:01 PM
    • 3,873 Posts
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    Gavin83
    I really don't see any positives to handing in your notice early. Just hand it in the month before you intend to leave.
    • asajj
    • By asajj 12th Oct 16, 3:26 PM
    • 3,709 Posts
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    asajj
    In my last job, I gave my notice 3 months in advance so they could start advertising for my position. This was agreed with my manager and HR but I have written an email clearly stating that I'm giving an early notice and that my last day at work will 31 December 2016.
    £2015 in 2015 / £2015

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    • stugib
    • By stugib 12th Oct 16, 4:39 PM
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    stugib
    Really? On what basis?
    Originally posted by sangie595
    Question: if the contract stated a month's notice and notice was given, couldn't the employer choose to set a leaving date a month from then rather than the employee's preferred leaving date which was later? So it's not about dismissing, it's them sticking to the terms of the contract if it suited them rather than the employee?
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 12th Oct 16, 4:47 PM
    • 2,735 Posts
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    sangie595
    Question: if the contract stated a month's notice and notice was given, couldn't the employer choose to set a leaving date a month from then rather than the employee's preferred leaving date which was later? So it's not about dismissing, it's them sticking to the terms of the contract if it suited them rather than the employee?
    Originally posted by stugib
    No they couldn't. You don't understand notice. The notice period is a minimum. So if your notice period is a month, there is nothing to stop you saying that your are giving two months. You simply say on which date you are leaving. So if the employer cuts that shorty, it is exactly about dismissing.
    • stugib
    • By stugib 12th Oct 16, 4:51 PM
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    stugib
    No they couldn't. You don't understand notice.
    Originally posted by sangie595
    You're quite aggressive answering genuine questions. Not everyone is spoiling for an argument!
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 12th Oct 16, 5:38 PM
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    sangie595
    You're quite aggressive answering genuine questions. Not everyone is spoiling for an argument!
    Originally posted by stugib
    Good grief where did that come from? It is utter rubbish. Statement - no they couldn't. That is a fact. Statement - you don't understand notice. That is a fact. Followed by an explanation of notice.

    So in future, keep your aggressive and confrontational opinions to yourself and !!!!!!. In case you are under any illusions, that was aggressive. if I am being aggressive there would be no doubt about it. If you wish to infer sentiments that are not there, then you are the one with the problem
    • t0rt0ise
    • By t0rt0ise 13th Oct 16, 10:45 AM
    • 2,824 Posts
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    t0rt0ise
    Good grief where did that come from? It is utter rubbish. Statement - no they couldn't. That is a fact. Statement - you don't understand notice. That is a fact. Followed by an explanation of notice.
    Originally posted by sangie595
    Your approach is often aggressive even though what you say is true. There are ways of saying the same thing that don't sound aggressive. You could have said "it doesn't work quite like that" instead of the blunt "you don't understand notice".
    • crazycraic
    • By crazycraic 16th Oct 16, 4:28 PM
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    • 0 Thanks
    crazycraic
    A local authority will not attempt to get rid of you any quicker, and will doubtless appreciate the additional notice. There is no reason not to give them more warning - especially if you are hoping for them to do something for you!
    Originally posted by sangie595
    Hey,

    Thanks for your advice, and i'm also going to speak my union's local branch about it.

    We are (my partner) looking at a leaving date of no later than 31st March 2017 - would you recommend handing in my notice in early November, stating this will be the case?

    Regardless what other posters have put, i've seen first-hand that it usually takes the council months to fill any vacant position. They're also rather understaffed, and i doubt they'll want me out after a couple of months.

    Will be seeking a casual contract when i sumbit the notice, and i feel i'm doing the right thing by providing plenty of notice. Everyone knows i have received my Swedish registration, they know i'm going so time to end the rumours.
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