Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@. Skimlinks & other affiliated links are turned on

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • debtfreedave
    • By debtfreedave 11th Oct 16, 9:13 PM
    • 25Posts
    • 9Thanks
    debtfreedave
    travel to head office
    • #1
    • 11th Oct 16, 9:13 PM
    travel to head office 11th Oct 16 at 9:13 PM
    Hopefully a simple question!

    I work for a mid sized company at a satellite office, its one of only two satellite offices and I'm the only employee based at my location.

    Luckily for me I only live about 30 mins commute from the office so a nice easy commute. On some occasions I have to go to client sites, these are relatively close and its unusual to have to leave earlier than I normally would. To be honest if I have to leave 30 mins earlier or get home 30 mins later then I do it, not a problem for me at all.

    Now on occasion I have to travel a lot further. Its rare, I'd say around once a month but recently has been increasing, but its either to head office, which is 3 - 4 hours away depending on traffic or the other satellite office which is a similar distance.

    When I go to both of those locations I am expected to be onsite for my usual start time and finish at my usual time which obviously greatly extends my day. Nobody else in the company has to do this.

    Shouldn't that be classed as part of my work day and therefore I should get overtime or time off in lieu? I get paid mileage for the driving which seems to indicate its not being classed as travel to a permanent place of work.

    I'm not one who likes to rock the boat but equally I feel like I'm being taken advantage of.
Page 1
    • Doshwaster
    • By Doshwaster 11th Oct 16, 9:40 PM
    • 4,424 Posts
    • 3,541 Thanks
    Doshwaster
    • #2
    • 11th Oct 16, 9:40 PM
    • #2
    • 11th Oct 16, 9:40 PM
    Getting paid overtime for travel to clients or other offices would be highly unusual. I've never known it happen especially if you are salaried.

    However, a reasonable employer should be able make some allowances for for your 6-8 hours driving as spending that long behind the wheel on a work day cannot be good for your job performance. Is there any way you could travel up the evening before and stop in a hotel so that you will be fresher for your start time or go by train?

    Similarly, I don't think there's any automatic right to time off but if you've just done a 16 hour day including travel I would have no problem if someone who worked for me came in a couple of hours late the next day.
    • debtfreedave
    • By debtfreedave 11th Oct 16, 10:08 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    debtfreedave
    • #3
    • 11th Oct 16, 10:08 PM
    • #3
    • 11th Oct 16, 10:08 PM
    Thanks for that. Sounds like I'm stuck with it then.

    Seems a bit open for exploitation by the employer. What's to stop them sending you from London to Glasgow? Given that a lot of employments also opt you out of the working time directive it sounds like an employer can insist on pretty much unlimited travel hours that are unpaid over and above your normal workday so long as its travel at the start and / or end of the day.
    • ACG
    • By ACG 11th Oct 16, 10:24 PM
    • 13,478 Posts
    • 6,628 Thanks
    ACG
    • #4
    • 11th Oct 16, 10:24 PM
    • #4
    • 11th Oct 16, 10:24 PM
    Raise it as a concern. It could be the people asking it of you have not even considered the 8 hours its adding to your day.

    If you ask and nothing happens you are no worse off.
    I am a Mortgage Adviser
    You should note that this site doesn't check my status as a mortgage adviser, so you need to take my word for it. This signature is here as I follow MSE's Mortgage Adviser Code of Conduct. Any posts on here are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as financial advice.
    • elsien
    • By elsien 11th Oct 16, 10:33 PM
    • 13,656 Posts
    • 33,133 Thanks
    elsien
    • #5
    • 11th Oct 16, 10:33 PM
    • #5
    • 11th Oct 16, 10:33 PM
    If an employer opted me out of the working time directive, I'd be opting myself straight back in again.
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • Doshwaster
    • By Doshwaster 11th Oct 16, 11:55 PM
    • 4,424 Posts
    • 3,541 Thanks
    Doshwaster
    • #6
    • 11th Oct 16, 11:55 PM
    • #6
    • 11th Oct 16, 11:55 PM
    Thanks for that. Sounds like I'm stuck with it then.

    Seems a bit open for exploitation by the employer. What's to stop them sending you from London to Glasgow? Given that a lot of employments also opt you out of the working time directive it sounds like an employer can insist on pretty much unlimited travel hours that are unpaid over and above your normal workday so long as its travel at the start and / or end of the day.
    Originally posted by debtfreedave
    I've done a lot of business travel in my time both in the UK and internationally and a lot of that has to be done out of office hours. There is nothing to stop them sending you to Glasgow or further afield (I once did a 22 hour day trip to Stockholm) but your employer needs to understand that you are giving up some of your personal time and that long days aren't good for you. They have a duty of care towards you when you are travelling for work under health and safety laws. If you fell asleep behind the wheel then they could be liable.

    Personally, there's no way I would want to spent 8 hours driving on top of a full working day. If I have to go to a meeting more than a couple of hours drive away then I will use the train, fly or stop overnight.
    • cr1mson
    • By cr1mson 12th Oct 16, 7:03 AM
    • 717 Posts
    • 530 Thanks
    cr1mson
    • #7
    • 12th Oct 16, 7:03 AM
    • #7
    • 12th Oct 16, 7:03 AM
    We used to be allowed to take TOIL for any travelling in addition to what we would normally travel. So as your commute is normally 30 minutes and travelling to Head Office takes 4 hours could claim 3hr 30 mins. In practice no one claimed unless was more than 30 minutes difference.
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 12th Oct 16, 7:57 AM
    • 2,735 Posts
    • 4,276 Thanks
    sangie595
    • #8
    • 12th Oct 16, 7:57 AM
    • #8
    • 12th Oct 16, 7:57 AM
    If I have to go to a meeting more than a couple of hours drive away then I will use the train, fly or stop overnight.
    Originally posted by Doshwaster
    ^^^This^^^

    There is law on travel time if it is regular (as in daily) and people are low paid, but not otherwise.

    TBH I would be making the case for overnight accommodation. 3-4 hours travel each way is two working days in a day, and is dangerous. Nobody is wide awake on the journey back when working those sorts of hours. Where I work (and with pretty much every organisation I work with) this would be at least one overnight stay, and rail rather than driving - although some people do drive one way and stay overnight either before or after).
    • Runningfast
    • By Runningfast 12th Oct 16, 8:13 AM
    • 82 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    Runningfast
    • #9
    • 12th Oct 16, 8:13 AM
    • #9
    • 12th Oct 16, 8:13 AM
    Speak to your employers there probably is an easy fix to this...there was for my office.

    After a few of us complained our director implemented a new rule for all out of office travelling.

    For us any travel to anywhere other than our normal place of work I.e. office stipulated in our contract is part of the working day.

    Tomorrow I have to visit our 2nd office and be there for 9am. It is about 1.5hrs each way from my home. My working day now starts from when I leave my home and return to my home (obviously can't take the pee). Also we are contracted for 7.5hrs per day so any time over the 7.5hrs is given back as flexi/time in lieu.

    Good luck
    • ThemeOne
    • By ThemeOne 12th Oct 16, 8:24 AM
    • 691 Posts
    • 539 Thanks
    ThemeOne
    I would definitely ask for overnight accommodation on your organisation's standard travel and subsistence.
    • Mr.Generous
    • By Mr.Generous 12th Oct 16, 8:37 AM
    • 872 Posts
    • 1,013 Thanks
    Mr.Generous
    It is an unreasonable request to get you to do a 3 hr+ drive, work a day then 3+ hrs back. Id leave home half an hour earlier than usual and see what time you get there. Traffic was terrible, I'm going to have to set off home at 3.30 as it took me 4 hrs to get here. Nobody would object, its far far too long for a commute.
    • Doshwaster
    • By Doshwaster 12th Oct 16, 9:00 AM
    • 4,424 Posts
    • 3,541 Thanks
    Doshwaster
    I would definitely ask for overnight accommodation on your organisation's standard travel and subsistence.
    Originally posted by ThemeOne
    When you have someone from another office stopping overnight it's always a good excuse for some team building. Arrange to go out for a meal with colleagues - and, of course, get the company to pay for it.
    • Takeaway_Addict
    • By Takeaway_Addict 12th Oct 16, 2:23 PM
    • 5,389 Posts
    • 6,084 Thanks
    Takeaway_Addict
    It is an unreasonable request to get you to do a 3 hr+ drive, work a day then 3+ hrs back. Id leave home half an hour earlier than usual and see what time you get there. Traffic was terrible, I'm going to have to set off home at 3.30 as it took me 4 hrs to get here. Nobody would object, its far far too long for a commute.
    Originally posted by Mr.Generous
    Terrible advice as you do not know how the employer would react
    Don't trust a forum for advice. Get proper paid advice. Any advice given should always be checked
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 12th Oct 16, 5:00 PM
    • 14,321 Posts
    • 36,447 Thanks
    FBaby
    When I go to both of those locations I am expected to be onsite for my usual start time and finish at my usual time which obviously greatly extends my day.
    Who told you that you were expected? Your manager? HR? Colleagues? Did they understand the distance involved in your case?

    If the issue is that on that day, you have to be there for the whole 7/8 hours because you're on a course, or are party to activities that go on for that long, would miss out if arriving late/leaving early, could you negotiate with your manager that the following day (or so) you can do a shorter day at your normal office base?
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 12th Oct 16, 11:08 PM
    • 11,959 Posts
    • 11,409 Thanks
    Guest101
    I know we get TOIL for travel outide contracted hours.

    But that's a 'perk' of the job, not a legal requirement. To be honest i only take it if I want a late start the next day. I'd suggest speaking to your manager from a duty of care and wellbeing point of view

    If you are valued, your manager might (or morally should IMO) make some concession.

    Overnight expenses would probably be most appropriate.
    • Mersey
    • By Mersey 13th Oct 16, 2:08 AM
    • 1,243 Posts
    • 565 Thanks
    Mersey
    I've done a lot of business travel in my time both in the UK and internationally and a lot of that has to be done out of office hours. There is nothing to stop them sending you to Glasgow or further afield
    Originally posted by Doshwaster

    Of course there is. It has to be agreed.


    Place of work should really be stated in the contract - and in fact outlined at application stage or at the interview.


    With firms with offices in several UK cities job locations are advertised along with the vacancy. Contracts will often state eg Solicitor, x dept (Manchester office), with occasional visits to other sites required - which is fine.



    But it certainly wouldn't be deemed reasonable to ask an employee who accepted a job in eg the Birmingham office to regularly (fortnightly) be told to go to Bristol, London, Newcastle, Glasgow or Belfast, unless time/rest periods were allowed for.


    The OP should certainly raise this, especially as he's the only one affected.


    Fundamental terms of a contract can't be altered unilaterally - but changes can, of course, be agreed between the employer and employee.
    Last edited by Mersey; 13-10-2016 at 2:20 AM.
    Please be polite to OPs and remember this is a site for Claimants and Appellants to seek redress against their bank, ex-boss or retailer. If they wanted morality or the view of the IoD or Bank they'd ask them.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

1,320Posts Today

6,309Users online

Martin's Twitter
  • RT @speirin: @MartinSLewis now thats a blast from the past ???? https://t.co/5cSz1aNWFz

  • Have you set the Betamax? Tonight 8pm ITV The Martin Lewis Money Show - if ur married, and/or got kids and/or get tax credits - a must watch

  • On my way to @thismorning today "Is a shop telling you porkies" - how to tell your consumer rights from consumer wrongs...

  • Follow Martin