Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • Mr_AVB
    • By Mr_AVB 11th Oct 16, 6:22 AM
    • 6Posts
    • 0Thanks
    Mr_AVB
    Renting Flat - Lease query
    • #1
    • 11th Oct 16, 6:22 AM
    Renting Flat - Lease query 11th Oct 16 at 6:22 AM
    Good morning,

    I am about to move in with the other half and exploring the possibility of renting my existing flat. I have some lease related questions that are confusing me a bit. Wonderong if anyone could help - would be greatly appreciated.

    I bought the flat in 2011. The property is a split level, containing 2 flats. I own top floor, downstairs the bottom floor. We are co free holders and a lease is written to split the 2 flats.

    The lease is written in terms of landlord and tennants. I assume I am both at this point in time whilst i live there.

    However, upon discussing rental with downstairs they mentioned a covenenant that doesnt allow me to do this. I beleive the one they are referencing too talks about 'alienation' me subletting, although the lease is written in rather bad English.

    I have 3 main questions:

    Does this stop me being able to let the flat? (I dont think it is subletting as I own 50% of freehold, not sure where i stand here though).

    If it is restrictive, do i need to amend the lease via my solicitor or would written confirmation from them saying its fine be enough

    If they said they didnt want to amend the lease/allow rental, what would be my options from there?

    Many thanks in advance for your help
Page 1
    • anselld
    • By anselld 11th Oct 16, 7:16 AM
    • 4,869 Posts
    • 4,319 Thanks
    anselld
    • #2
    • 11th Oct 16, 7:16 AM
    • #2
    • 11th Oct 16, 7:16 AM
    Probably best to post the actual wording.

    You are leasholder (tenant) of your flat so if you let it out that is subletting. If the lease prevents it then you have a problem.

    You are part (50%) owner of the freehold so any changes must be agreed with the other part freeholder.

    Other options - sell.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 11th Oct 16, 10:51 AM
    • 37,068 Posts
    • 41,000 Thanks
    G_M
    • #3
    • 11th Oct 16, 10:51 AM
    • #3
    • 11th Oct 16, 10:51 AM

    The lease is written in terms of landlord you are a joint freeholder, or 'landlord' and tennants. You are a leaseholder, or 'tenant' I assume I am both at this point in time whilst i live there. Yes

    However, upon discussing rental with downstairs they mentioned a covenenant that doesnt allow me to do this. I beleive the one they are referencing too talks about 'alienation' me subletting, although the lease is written in rather bad English.


    I have 3 main questions:

    Does this stop me being able to let the flat? (I dont think it is subletting as I own 50% of freehold, not sure where i stand here though).
    Impossible to aswer without looing at the lease! Quote the relevant clause in full.

    If it is restrictive, do i need to amend the lease via my solicitor or would written confirmation from them saying its fine be enough
    Your solicitor cannot over-ride the lease. Nor can he amend the lease without freeholder agreement.

    If they said they didnt want to amend the lease/allow rental, what would be my options from there?
    The lease can oly be amended by agreement between the leaseholder (you) and the freeholder (you+ 1 other), so you would need the other joint freeholder's agreement.

    Many thanks in advance for your help
    Originally posted by Mr_AVB
    .................................................. ............................................
    • Mr_AVB
    • By Mr_AVB 13th Oct 16, 10:39 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Mr_AVB
    • #4
    • 13th Oct 16, 10:39 PM
    • #4
    • 13th Oct 16, 10:39 PM
    Hi,

    Thanks for advice so far - apologies had been away with work until now but can quote some of the Lease details.

    Just to re-iterate, I'm looking to rent the flat out whilst I won't live there, via a Estate Agent.

    In terms of the documents:

    Land Registry entries for the leasehold and freehold (I believe the latter is my freehold document)

    Leasehold Land Registry
    (27.01.2014) The lease prohibits or restricts alienation
    Freehold Land Registry (I don't think this is of reference - there is nothing else in mention of letting / alienation on the Freehold document, except being subject to the Lease)

    (28.06.2010) RESTRICTION: No disposition by a sole propreietor of the registered estate (except a trust corporation) under which capital money arises is to be registered unless authorised by the order of the court
    Detailed Lease Document:
    Alienation

    (19) (a) Not at any time to assign sub-let or charge hold on trust for another party nor share possession or occupation of part only of the demised premises

    (b) Not at any time to assign transfer or sub-let the whole of the demised premises or permit or suffer the same to be done unless there shall previously have been executed at the expense of the tennant and delivered to the Landlord for retention by him a deed expressed to be made between the Landlord of the first part of the tennant of the second part and the person or persons (hereinafter called "the Third Party") to whom it is proposed to assign transfer or sub-let as aforesaid of the third part whereby the third party shall have convenanted directly with the landlord to observe and perform throughout the said term the covenants on part of the Tennant herein contained including the covenant contained in this sub-clause. Provided always that the landlord shall not himself be required to execute such deed.

    (c) Within one calendar month next after any transfer assignment sub-letting or charging or other permitted devolution of the demised premises to give to the Landlord notice in writing of such transfer assignment sub-letting or charging or other permitted devolution and of the name and address and description of the third party and to produce to the Landlord or his Solicitors within such time as aforesaid a certified copy of every instrument of transfer assignment lease charge or other devolution as aforesaid and every probate letters of administration order of the Court or other instrument effecting or evidencing the same and to pay to the Landlord a fee of TEN POUNDS (£10) plus Value Added Tax for the registration of such notice.
    Last edited by Mr_AVB; 13-10-2016 at 11:12 PM.
    • eddddy
    • By eddddy 14th Oct 16, 8:47 AM
    • 3,847 Posts
    • 3,482 Thanks
    eddddy
    • #5
    • 14th Oct 16, 8:47 AM
    • #5
    • 14th Oct 16, 8:47 AM
    In simplified terms, my understanding of the terms you quote is:

    - You can't rent rent out just part of the flat.

    - You can rent out the entire flat, but the person you rent to must sign a deed - saying that they will observe the terms of the lease.

    (The terms of the lease probably say stuff like: rubbish mustn't be left in communal areas - which is fine. But it may also say stuff like the flat must be redecorated every 5 years. Technically, the person you rent to will be taking responsibility for this.)


    You also have to give a copy of the AST to your joint freeholder and pay them £5 (i.e. half of £10)

    So the problems seem to be:

    - The person you rent to might be scared by the deed they have to sign
    - You will have to pay a solicitor to draw up the deed
    - Your joint freeholder sounds unhappy that you will be renting out. They can't stop you, but it sounds like it may sour relations with them.
    • zebulon
    • By zebulon 14th Oct 16, 10:30 AM
    • 625 Posts
    • 751 Thanks
    zebulon
    • #6
    • 14th Oct 16, 10:30 AM
    • #6
    • 14th Oct 16, 10:30 AM
    Just to re-iterate, I'm looking to rent the flat out whilst I won't live there, via a Estate Agent.
    Originally posted by Mr_AVB
    I think you may be confusing 2 different types of Landlord and Tenant here.

    In the instance of Tenant = Leasholder and Landlord = Freeholder, you would be sub-letting your flat.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 14th Oct 16, 11:25 AM
    • 37,068 Posts
    • 41,000 Thanks
    G_M
    • #7
    • 14th Oct 16, 11:25 AM
    • #7
    • 14th Oct 16, 11:25 AM
    What edddy said.
    • Mr_AVB
    • By Mr_AVB 14th Oct 16, 12:28 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Mr_AVB
    • #8
    • 14th Oct 16, 12:28 PM
    • #8
    • 14th Oct 16, 12:28 PM
    Thanks all, the input is really useful.

    Zeb - I also own 50% of freehold, which is where the confusion is coming for me. I don't really see it as sub-letting if I'm not living there and I'm the 50% landlord.

    I'll write out to my Solicitor who arranged the purchase - they should be able to give a legal view and hopefully affirm Eddy's points i.e. a Deed.

    The whole lease is terribly written mind. Are they still like this today (i.e. bad english, never simple etc)
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

1,881Posts Today

6,207Users online

Martin's Twitter