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  • FIRST POST
    • marganne
    • By marganne 10th Oct 16, 4:14 PM
    • 36Posts
    • 20Thanks
    marganne
    ParkingEye and Blue Badge
    • #1
    • 10th Oct 16, 4:14 PM
    ParkingEye and Blue Badge 10th Oct 16 at 4:14 PM
    I originally posted Oct 2nd. My problem is as follows: HELP Me too
    #54 2nd Oct 16, 1:59 PM
    Hi, I am new to all this too. My problem is this. ANPR took a picture of me entering and leaving the parking lot. You can clearly see my blue badge in the windscreen My problem is this
    1. NO Disabled parking spaces
    2. Have been charged from time car drove in to park not as per ticket purchased.
    3. Has not taken note of parking ticket displayed in car.
    4. Machine says extra time can be purchased , NOT!!
    5.Had to go for change as machine does not take cards, notes nor give change!.
    6. Extremely bad spaces, had to dodge for driving area.

    Please help me, senior citizen (disabled) going crazy

    MAFB

    I sent a letter of appeal, recorded delivery to the address supplied on the back of the PCN letter. Today I received another PCN reminder letter. They have not taken the slightest bit of notice of my appeal about no Disabled spaces or any of the other points I mention. What should I do now?
    .
    .
    Last edited by marganne; 10-10-2016 at 4:18 PM. Reason: Missing details
Page 1
    • Half_way
    • By Half_way 10th Oct 16, 4:15 PM
    • 2,945 Posts
    • 3,941 Thanks
    Half_way
    • #2
    • 10th Oct 16, 4:15 PM
    • #2
    • 10th Oct 16, 4:15 PM
    Who's car park was this?
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
    • marganne
    • By marganne 10th Oct 16, 4:22 PM
    • 36 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    marganne
    • #3
    • 10th Oct 16, 4:22 PM
    • #3
    • 10th Oct 16, 4:22 PM
    The Car Park was in Aire Street Leeds ParkingEye car park management
    • Elysander
    • By Elysander 10th Oct 16, 4:32 PM
    • 42 Posts
    • 96 Thanks
    Elysander
    • #4
    • 10th Oct 16, 4:32 PM
    • #4
    • 10th Oct 16, 4:32 PM
    Did you identify the driver in your appeal to Parking Eye?

    PE have lost several times at POPLA for this site as they keep providing POPLA with an unreadable scan of the alleged contract in their evidence packs.
    • marganne
    • By marganne 10th Oct 16, 4:36 PM
    • 36 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    marganne
    • #5
    • 10th Oct 16, 4:36 PM
    ParkingEye v Beavis [2015] UKSC 67
    • #5
    • 10th Oct 16, 4:36 PM
    Parking Eye mention the above ruling for their parking charges. No mention of the non availability of Disabled parking spaces, faulty machines.
    • marganne
    • By marganne 10th Oct 16, 4:39 PM
    • 36 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    marganne
    • #6
    • 10th Oct 16, 4:39 PM
    Identity
    • #6
    • 10th Oct 16, 4:39 PM
    All m y replies only mention "the driver". It would appear ParkingEye contacted DVLA, as they had my full name and address.
    • marganne
    • By marganne 10th Oct 16, 5:03 PM
    • 36 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    marganne
    • #7
    • 10th Oct 16, 5:03 PM
    • #7
    • 10th Oct 16, 5:03 PM
    Can anyone please tell me what my next course of action should be? I received a PCN to pay reminder letter. My request for an appeal has been ignored by them quoting ParkingEye v Beavis [2015]. There is no POPLA number for an appeal, no acknowledgement regarding my point about no disabled parking and faulty machines
    • Carthesis
    • By Carthesis 10th Oct 16, 5:16 PM
    • 449 Posts
    • 786 Thanks
    Carthesis
    • #8
    • 10th Oct 16, 5:16 PM
    • #8
    • 10th Oct 16, 5:16 PM
    It seems this is a pay and display / paid-for car park of some kind, yes?

    If so, then PE -v- Beavis doesn't apply, as that was a case involving "free for X hours for customers only" parking in a retail park when the free parking was exceeded, and the signs were unusually prominent and clear.

    It's a red herring and a scare tactic and they should be stopped from quoting it at all ideally, but certainly stopped from doing so in cases where the circumstances differ!
    • Carthesis
    • By Carthesis 10th Oct 16, 5:21 PM
    • 449 Posts
    • 786 Thanks
    Carthesis
    • #9
    • 10th Oct 16, 5:21 PM
    • #9
    • 10th Oct 16, 5:21 PM
    So to get this straight -

    You've gone into a pay car-park. You've paid, but you've had to go and get change first. They're alleging you paid an insufficient amount for the length of time you were actually parked?

    Sadly, you'll have to forget the lack of disabled spaces, as it's irrelevant to the point in hand, as is the presence of the blue badge which need not be honoured on private land. If the issue is that you were delayed in getting in and out of the car due to the poor carpark design; further delayed being able to pay for parking then it matters because it's an Equalities Act violation - they're meant to make reasonable adjustments for people with disabilities. You also need to look into the grace periods.

    It would be helpful if you could tell us exactly what the charge notice they sent you says. Also to make sure that the notice was received within the 14 days of the alleged incident.

    Just be careful to not post any personal information.
    • fisherjim
    • By fisherjim 10th Oct 16, 5:39 PM
    • 1,716 Posts
    • 2,365 Thanks
    fisherjim
    If you paid for 60 mins and parked for 60min but it took you 15mins to get change, they will say you parked for 75mins because ANPR clocked your time in and out.
    However they should allow a driver under normal circumstances 10mins grace to read the signs, park and pay, if you are disabled they should make reasonable adjustments.
    Their ANPR is only programmed to see your VRN no check of your ticket will have been made, and they really are not interested in disabled spaces, these are money hungry bullies you are dealing with.

    Coupon Mad will be along later to give more insight into this I'm sure.
    To quote the words of the great Count Arthur Strong "You Couldn't make it up"
    • marganne
    • By marganne 10th Oct 16, 5:51 PM
    • 36 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    marganne
    Parkiingeye and Bluebadge
    Hi, What they say is this: On Sept 21, 2016 (my car reg) entered the Aire street car park at 11:09:23 and departed 17:01:55. The signage which is clearly displayed at the entrance and throughout states that this is private land, the car park is managed by Parkingeye ltd and parking tariffs apply or parking charges will be incurred, along with other terms and conditions of the carpark by which those who park in the car park agree to be bound. By either not purchasing not purchasing the appropiate parking time or by remaining at the car park for longer than permitted as stated in the signage. The Parking charge is now payable .
    This is my appeal letter: October 3, 2016


    ParkingEye
    P.O Box 565
    Chorley
    PR6 6HT


    Dear Sir/Madam,

    Re: Parking Charge Reference number:

    I am the registered keeper of the above vehicle and have received the above demand from you.

    I dispute owing you any amount and deny all liability in this matter. Please accept this letter as a formal appeal under your appeals process.

    The basis of my appeal is:

    1. The amount you have claimed is not a genuine pre-estimate of any loss to either Parking Eye or the car park landowner.

    2. The signs in your car park fail to comply with your Accredited Trade Association’s Code of Practice

    3. No contract was formed with the driver due to the fact that your signs were not sufficiently brought to the attention of the driver.

    4. Parking Eye is not the landowner and therefore Parking Eye does not have the right to enter into a contract with a driver nor does Parking Eye have the right to bring a claim for trespass.

    Please confirm in writing whether you accept my appeal and withdraw your demand. If you reject my appeal, please provide the following particulars:

    1) The basis of your charge (i.e. contract breach, trespass or contractual fee).

    If you are alleging breach of contract, I require a breakdown of the liquidated damages you claim were suffered, and by whom, and how each particular loss arose.
    If you are alleging trespass please enclose evidence of the alleged perpetrator and proof of the liquidated damages alleged and the calculation of this sum.
    If you alleging a “contractual fee” I request a VAT invoice from you and ask you to explain the daily rate for parking and service provided for that fee.

    2) Please also advise the amount of money you would have received from the driver of my vehicle should the alleged contract have been met to your satisfaction.

    3) Please advise the name and address of the landowner.

    4) Please provide a POPLA code that allows me to appeal to POPLA.

    If Parking Eye rejects my appeal: please do not contact me again with more demands as I deny owing Parking Eye any money and deny that any driver of my vehicle has entered into a contract with you. Any legal action you initiate against me will be defended.

    5) Additional circumstances – The picture shown on your letter shows the time the car entered Aire street and NOT the time shown on parking ticket. The picture also clearly shows a “Blue Disabled Badge” displayed in the windscreen, Blue Badge supplied. There are no disabled parking bays in Aire Street. As you will be able to see from the CCTV cameras focused upon the payment machines, the driver attempted to key in the registration to pay for the parking charge several times on the meters located to Aire Street Leeds. The driver of the vehicle also drove to a second payment meter located at the far side of the car park on finding it would not accept the coinage when they tried to pay, the driver then returned to the payment meter again located by the entrance to Aire Street Leeds. The driver attempted to key in the registration of the vehicle on both machines several times as can clearly be seen by the CCTV cameras located above the machines. As can be seen on the CCTV footage, the driver and another driver of a different vehicle both attempted to make payments to which the machines would not accept and simply returned to its original screen. It is not being disputed that the vehicle exceeded the 5 hour free stay however it is being disputed that a payment could not be made due to a fault with your machinery. The driver also attempted several times to phone the number given to purchase extra parking time. The system kept asking for “Reference number on my letter”! You also say that extra parking time can be purchased via machine, which it would not accept!

    Yours sincerely
    Last edited by marganne; 11-10-2016 at 5:28 PM. Reason: information listed
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 10th Oct 16, 6:34 PM
    • 40,460 Posts
    • 52,359 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Sounds like you are panicking about the standard 'Reminder' that everyone gets. No worries. It is not a reply to your appeal and does not mean you will not get a rejection letter and POPLA code, because you will. So sit tight and come back here at POPLA stage.

    Do not send that same appeal as it is out of date (mentions 'GPEOL' which is hopeless) and would lose at POPLA. At Aire Street the signage is woeful, the evidence packs normally include photos of old signs no longer there and in addition, the ownership has changed...it will be interesting if PE will be able to supply to POPLA, proof of landowner authority.

    You might also be able to argue insufficient grace periods (as well as broken machines/frustration of contract).

    So, wait. Come back at POPLA stage or to tell us if they cancel.

    Can you tell us how many minutes were shown between arrival and the P&D ticket time, AND how many minutes were shown on the PCN between expiry of paid-for time, and driving out?
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • marganne
    • By marganne 10th Oct 16, 6:52 PM
    • 36 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    marganne
    Unfortunately I no longer have the P&D ticket as when I left the car park the ticket was still valid. The wording on the parkingeye charge does not show any times so can be presumed that they do not know as to whether I purchased a ticket or not, just the time I entered and time I left.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 10th Oct 16, 8:15 PM
    • 40,460 Posts
    • 52,359 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    No, they DO know. They just have not stated it. Annoyingly they will not show you what the driver paid until POPLA evidence pack stage.

    when I left the car park the ticket was still valid.
    Good, that supports your POPLA argument later on, that not enough grace period was given at the outset (NOT saying who was driving). You will also be able to add a quote from the BPA Code of Practice (Google it now and look at the latest version, 2015) that operators must allow MORE TIME for disabled people to access things like P&D machines! Look it up. You will be using that as well as lots more. We will help.

    Also, see this decision about Aire Street which you can use in your POPLA appeal as compelling evidence that if it is confusing for an able-bodied person who took 15 minutes before paying (and won their POPLA Appeal on Grace Periods) then it is indisputable that a disabled person needs at least as long, if not longer, to find out the terms and then pay what appeared to be correct (and indeed the driver left before expiry of paid-for time so the only difficulty was on arrival and perfectly reasonable under the circumstances).

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=70455570#post70455570

    no case number but Aire Street decision on a 15 minute grace period at the start, 6.4.16 - POPLA Assessor: Victoria Thackeray.


    Had to go for change as machine does not take cards, notes nor give change!
    This will NOT be in your POPLA appeal. Nope. Not even in a Council PCN appeal do you ever say you went for change...you are not allowed that time and are expected to get it first. So don't mention it.


    HTH
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 10-10-2016 at 8:23 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 11th Oct 16, 9:41 AM
    • 36,455 Posts
    • 73,278 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    It is not a good idea to put information on here that could identify you such as the PCN number and VRN.

    Parking companies read these fora to identify people, so it may already be too late, but you should delete the information anyway.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • marganne
    • By marganne 13th Oct 16, 1:55 PM
    • 36 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    marganne
    Does the fact that the parking sign states " Blue Badge holders only in marked bays-tariffs apply"
    still mean that because it is on private land they do not have to acknowledge disabled parking?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 13th Oct 16, 2:26 PM
    • 40,460 Posts
    • 52,359 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    It won't affect your appeal, if that's what you mean.

    But disabled people are allowed more of a grace period and you need to quote the BPA Code of Practice on that point (Google it).
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • marganne
    • By marganne 13th Oct 16, 2:48 PM
    • 36 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    marganne
    Thank you, yes I read the BPA code of practice...What I meant was the fact that the sign said about disabled spaces but they were none there to use.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 13th Oct 16, 6:15 PM
    • 40,460 Posts
    • 52,359 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Well to meet the Equality Act 2010 a car park should offer a small % of disabled bays, yes.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • marganne
    • By marganne 19th Oct 16, 9:50 AM
    • 36 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    marganne
    I have received my POPLA ref number, along with ParkingEye's rejection of my appeal to them. What do I do now with regards to initiating an appeal with POPLA.

    Many thanks
    marganne
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