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  • FIRST POST
    • joshly
    • By joshly 10th Oct 16, 3:28 PM
    • 110Posts
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    joshly
    State Pension Age
    • #1
    • 10th Oct 16, 3:28 PM
    State Pension Age 10th Oct 16 at 3:28 PM
    I am 50 years old.

    Therefore I think I would retire at 67 which will be 2034.

    A couple of times recently people have mentioned in conversation that there wont be a State Pension by the time I retire.

    Will there still be a state pension in 2034?
    Last edited by joshly; 10-10-2016 at 3:30 PM.
Page 1
    • coyrls
    • By coyrls 10th Oct 16, 3:40 PM
    • 590 Posts
    • 544 Thanks
    coyrls
    • #2
    • 10th Oct 16, 3:40 PM
    • #2
    • 10th Oct 16, 3:40 PM
    Well you can only ask people's opinions. The end of the state pension certainly hasn't been announced. In my opinion there will be a state pension in 2034. Others may have different views.
    • Linton
    • By Linton 10th Oct 16, 3:48 PM
    • 6,936 Posts
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    Linton
    • #3
    • 10th Oct 16, 3:48 PM
    • #3
    • 10th Oct 16, 3:48 PM
    There will be a state pension in 2034 unless the government decides there wont be and gets the appropriate legislation through Parliament. Both these possibilities seem very unlikely to me if MPs want to keep their seats. Even if it did happen it is even more unlikely that existing rights would be removed, but rather new entrants would be stopped. Such as happened with the April 2016 change in state pension - no-one lost anything they had already earned.

    So at your age I wouldnt take it as a serious risk. Or if it was the economy would be in such a serious state that perhaps a loss of state pension would be a relatively small part of your problems.
    • spadoosh
    • By spadoosh 10th Oct 16, 4:07 PM
    • 3,709 Posts
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    spadoosh
    • #4
    • 10th Oct 16, 4:07 PM
    • #4
    • 10th Oct 16, 4:07 PM
    That will generally depend on your economic outlook.

    Ive had to tell quite a few people recently they wont be retiring when they where led to believe. (stat pension age increases). They did their sums, made their plans and someone else changed them.

    I take a negative outlook on pensions. Our current pension system is completely reliant on the next generation paying in based on the current generations growth. I dont expect this in the future (growth around the world has curtailed drastically).

    You only need to look at the Greek pension crisis to see what happens when a government cant meet its contributions, it appears the Greek pensioners are suffering more so than the average greek person. Whilst they havent lost the state pension completely the IMF with the help of the EU have drastically reduced it.

    Whilst i cant say you will or will not receive a state pension i can definitely say you would be daft to rely on a state pension. It would be prudent to make alternate arrangements to serve your own interests without relying on things you just cant control like politics or economics.
    Don't be angry!
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 10th Oct 16, 4:07 PM
    • 85,089 Posts
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    dunstonh
    • #5
    • 10th Oct 16, 4:07 PM
    • #5
    • 10th Oct 16, 4:07 PM
    A couple of times recently people have mentioned in conversation that there wont be a State Pension by the time I retire.
    That is a personal opinion and has no basis in fact.

    The state pension was introduced over 100 years ago. It has gone through multiple financial crisis, world wars and when the country was on the verge of bankruptcy in the late 70s. Yet it continued to be paid.

    The recent changes to the state pension age and the proposed linking to life expectancy keep the state pension affordable. It is not going anywhere. It may start later than current but it will be there. Whether that is early enough for you is a different matter.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. Different people have different needs and what is right for one person may not be for another. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from a Financial Adviser local to you.
    • DaveMcG
    • By DaveMcG 10th Oct 16, 5:04 PM
    • 128 Posts
    • 62 Thanks
    DaveMcG
    • #6
    • 10th Oct 16, 5:04 PM
    • #6
    • 10th Oct 16, 5:04 PM

    You only need to look at the Greek pension crisis to see what happens when a government cant meet its contributions, it appears the Greek pensioners are suffering more so than the average greek person. Whilst they havent lost the state pension completely the IMF with the help of the EU have drastically reduced it.
    Originally posted by spadoosh
    The UK can simply debase the currency. It doesn't need to cut pensions.

    Greece is a euro member and has simply run out of money. It is also worth noting that Greece's pensions were much higher as a proportion of wages than the UK state pension and the retirement dates were also lower.
    • bigfreddiel
    • By bigfreddiel 10th Oct 16, 5:12 PM
    • 4,068 Posts
    • 1,861 Thanks
    bigfreddiel
    • #7
    • 10th Oct 16, 5:12 PM
    • #7
    • 10th Oct 16, 5:12 PM
    I am 50 years old.

    Therefore I think I would retire at 67 which will be 2034.

    A couple of times recently people have mentioned in conversation that there wont be a State Pension by the time I retire.

    Will there still be a state pension in 2034?
    Originally posted by joshly
    What people are actually saying is that the state pension will be so watered down 18 years time it won't be worth having.

    Things that could change are removal of triple lock, means testing, and one mentioned recently is that graduates will wait three years before being eligible. I would think this is the most likely.

    So there will be a state pension, but maybe not as generous.
    Cheers fj
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 10th Oct 16, 5:20 PM
    • 85,089 Posts
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    dunstonh
    • #8
    • 10th Oct 16, 5:20 PM
    • #8
    • 10th Oct 16, 5:20 PM
    Greece was also stitched up by the EU and treated very harshly. Some people have used the treatment of Greece and the lack of flexibility for different countries as a reason they voted to leave.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. Different people have different needs and what is right for one person may not be for another. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from a Financial Adviser local to you.
    • PensionTech
    • By PensionTech 10th Oct 16, 6:02 PM
    • 582 Posts
    • 721 Thanks
    PensionTech
    • #9
    • 10th Oct 16, 6:02 PM
    • #9
    • 10th Oct 16, 6:02 PM
    What people are actually saying is that the state pension will be so watered down 18 years time it won't be worth having.

    Things that could change are removal of triple lock, means testing, and one mentioned recently is that graduates will wait three years before being eligible. I would think this is the most likely.

    So there will be a state pension, but maybe not as generous.
    I don't think the removal of the triple lock is a good example of watering the state pension down to the extent where it's not worth having. The triple lock is an absurdly generous policy. For the state pension to maintain its purchasing power it need only increase in line with inflation - not earnings and certainly not a floor of 2.5%. Continuing to use the triple lock will only further the redistribution of wealth from the young to the old. So while scrapping it may well (and hopefully will) come to pass, I don't think you can seriously make an argument that it renders the state pension "not worth having", given that simple inflation-linking of the current value would still result in a state pension of over £8,000pa in real terms for people with a full NI history (which is not hard to accrue). That is not a trifling amount of money to most people.

    I also doubt that the state pension will ever become means-tested. Again I wouldn't actually be too upset about this, raging leftie that I am (though it would have to be accompanied by a huge change in NI contribution levels), but the fact is that the elderly vote in droves and no old person would ever vote for a government with this in their manifesto even if it didn't affect them immediately. Cue Daily Mail-esque cries of "I've served my country", "I've done my time", "scrounging single mums/couch potatoes/immigrants get benefits, why shouldn't I".

    Graduates waiting three years before becoming eligible... I haven't heard this myself. I would think it a strange policy, but it's not like students tend to be massively sheltered from political manoeuvres, so I suppose it might be plausible. Still, with State Pension Age the way it is, and the number of qualifying years needed to build up a full NI record being relatively low, I don't think this would be the end of the world.

    Yes, I can easily imagine the state pension being less generous by the time I come to retire (currently 68, but I'm expecting it to hit 70 by then), but I don't think a radical change like means-testing or anything that renders it completely insignificant is likely.
    Last edited by PensionTech; 10-10-2016 at 6:05 PM.
    I am a Technical Analyst at a third-party pension administration company. My job is to interpret rules and legislation and provide technical guidance, but I am not a lawyer or a qualified advisor of any kind and anything I say on these boards is my opinion only.
    • JezR
    • By JezR 10th Oct 16, 6:12 PM
    • 1,433 Posts
    • 1,020 Thanks
    JezR
    The state pension was introduced over 100 years ago. It has gone through multiple financial crisis, world wars and when the country was on the verge of bankruptcy in the late 70s. Yet it continued to be paid.
    Originally posted by dunstonh
    Although the £10 Christmas bonus was not paid in 1975 or 1976. Mind you no one has valorised that since it was first paid in 1972 apart from the 2008-9 one-off bonus.
    • greenglide
    • By greenglide 10th Oct 16, 7:14 PM
    • 2,358 Posts
    • 1,456 Thanks
    greenglide
    Although the £10 Christmas bonus was not paid in 1975 or 1976. Mind you no one has valorised that since it was first paid in 1972 apart from the 2008-9 one-off bonus.
    But the £10 Christmas bonus is not, actually, a pension payment, it is a payment made to all recipients of qualifying benefits.
    • blobby8
    • By blobby8 10th Oct 16, 7:19 PM
    • 688 Posts
    • 1,126 Thanks
    blobby8
    I am 50 years old.

    Therefore I think I would retire at 67 which will be 2034.

    A couple of times recently people have mentioned in conversation that there wont be a State Pension by the time I retire.

    Will there still be a state pension in 2034?
    Originally posted by joshly
    "They" wont let you starve, or freeze, or be without a roof over your head, or go without medical treatment.

    A pensioner now who has made no provision for their old age has a fairly decent life. Someone who has worked in a low wage job all their lives fairs little better.
    'll give myself a damn good thrashing.
    • joshly
    • By joshly 10th Oct 16, 7:47 PM
    • 110 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    joshly
    Thank-you for the replies.


    Is there anyway I can find out if I have paid enough NI contributions in the past to qualify for a state pension in 2034?


    I ask because my first job as a teenager I was asked to go self-employed and I bought a stamp every week. But work was sporadic.
    I did start paying into a private pension but as work was not constant I had to stop that. It wont be worth much at all, a couple of thousand. I can get it at 55 apparently.
    Later as I had my own small business I bought a NI stamp every week.
    But for the past 5 years I tried a different line of work from home (which has recently failed) and the Accountant I used at the beginning contacted HMRC and they said I do not need to buy a NI stamp because I would be taxed under CGT. Ultimately I ended losing money that I invested in the business.
    Last edited by joshly; 10-10-2016 at 7:51 PM.
    • zagfles
    • By zagfles 10th Oct 16, 7:51 PM
    • 11,107 Posts
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    zagfles
    No credible politician, analyst or think tank is suggesting abolishing or means testing the state pension. It would be political suicide, it would discourage saving, it would make a complete mockery of the pension freedoms announced a couple of years ago, which can only really work if there's a (non means tested) state pension to fall back on.

    The age might rise, the triple lock might be ditched, but I'd bet my house on it still being there in 2034 and at the sort of value it's now worth.
    • zagfles
    • By zagfles 10th Oct 16, 7:52 PM
    • 11,107 Posts
    • 9,123 Thanks
    zagfles
    Thank-you for the replies.


    Is there anyway I can find out if I have paid enough NI contributions in the past to qualify for a state pension in 2034?


    I ask because my first job as a teenager I was asked to go self-employed and I bought a stamp every week. But work was sporadic.
    I did start paying into a private pension but as work was not constant I had to stop that. It wont be worth much at all, a couple of thousand. I can get it at 55 apparently.
    Later as I had my own small business I bought a NI stamp every week.
    But for the past 5 years I tried a different line of work from home (which has recently failed) and the Accountant I used at the beginning contacted HMRC and they said I do not need to buy a NI stamp because I would be taxed under CGT. Ultimately I ended losing money that I invested in the business.
    Originally posted by joshly
    See https://www.gov.uk/check-state-pension
    • colsten
    • By colsten 10th Oct 16, 8:38 PM
    • 8,139 Posts
    • 6,625 Thanks
    colsten

    Graduates waiting three years before becoming eligible... I haven't heard this myself.
    Originally posted by PensionTech
    It was in the Times last week, a leak by someone who claims they know about the interim Cridland report which is due to be published this Thursday. Remains to be seen how much truth there is to the rumour - as well as what will be in the final report, and more importantly, what Government(s) will make of the Cridland recommendations.

    For now, and I think for the next 10 years at least, Graduates won't pay any penalty
    Last edited by colsten; 10-10-2016 at 8:42 PM.
    • bigfreddiel
    • By bigfreddiel 10th Oct 16, 8:40 PM
    • 4,068 Posts
    • 1,861 Thanks
    bigfreddiel

    Graduates waiting three years before becoming eligible... I haven't heard this myself. I would think it a strange policy, but it's not like students tend to be massively sheltered from political manoeuvres, so I suppose it might be plausible. Still, with State Pension Age the way it is, and the number of qualifying years needed to build up a full NI record being relatively low, I don't think this would be the end of the world.
    Originally posted by PensionTech
    It's been in all the newspapers, can't understand how you could have missed it.

    fj
  • jamesd
    According to the Daily Mail a proposal is instead of age 68 for all, age 70 for graduates and age 63 for others. Apparently the purpose is to try to deal with the inequality in life expectancy and hence number of years receiving the state pension.

    Since life expectancy is significantly correlated with intelligence which in turn is correlated with education there's some logic in there. But not as much logic as asking a few basic health questions closer to state pension age to get some idea of the life expectancy of the individual.
    • westv
    • By westv 10th Oct 16, 10:39 PM
    • 4,063 Posts
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    westv
    Sounds like a load of nonsense to me.

    Edit: Although I wouldn't say no to getting the SP at 63!
    Last edited by westv; 10-10-2016 at 10:45 PM.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 10th Oct 16, 11:19 PM
    • 85,089 Posts
    • 50,114 Thanks
    dunstonh
    It should be noted that it is not government policy and it is not the Government that is suggesting this. It is a review commissioned by Ros Altmann but it is independent of the Government but for the benefit of Government.

    Ros Altmann is out of favour and the recommendations are really little different to those put forward by think tanks all the time. I suspect all non-essential Government issues will be sidelined for the next few years as the various departments focus on brexit.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. Different people have different needs and what is right for one person may not be for another. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from a Financial Adviser local to you.
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