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  • FIRST POST
    • seven-day-weekend
    • By seven-day-weekend 10th Oct 16, 11:01 AM
    • 27,823Posts
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    seven-day-weekend
    Rented Housing
    • #1
    • 10th Oct 16, 11:01 AM
    Rented Housing 10th Oct 16 at 11:01 AM
    People on these boards are not on the whole happy with Assured Shorthold Tenancies, mainly due due to the lack of security of tenure.

    What do you think would be a good compromise, to be fair to the tenant AND the landlord?


    Do you think there should be more social housing, and if so, on what grounds should it be allocated? And should it be a permanent tenancy?

    Your thoughts welcomed.
    To love someone is to learn the song in their heart and to sing it to them when they have forgotten it
    'I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen. Not only because I see it, but because I see everything by it': C.S. Lewis
    St. Augustine — 'In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity.'
Page 1
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 10th Oct 16, 11:08 AM
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    Pixie5740
    • #2
    • 10th Oct 16, 11:08 AM
    • #2
    • 10th Oct 16, 11:08 AM
    Given that successive Conservative and Labour governments have continued with RTB which is now being ramped up to include HA properties I don't see more social housing happening.

    AST would be more secure if the Section 21 was abolished. Then landlords would only be able to evict if they had a valid reason. This might mean increasing the number of grounds a Section 8 can be issued on.
    Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds nought and six, result misery.
    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 10th Oct 16, 12:19 PM
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    Cakeguts
    • #3
    • 10th Oct 16, 12:19 PM
    • #3
    • 10th Oct 16, 12:19 PM
    No one is ever going to get security of tenure in private rented accommodation in the same way that you can in social housing simply because private rental housing is eventually always going to be in someone's estate. You can't morally expect people to inherit rented housing and expect them to take over as landlords. If they sell the houses as rented property then the tenants get new landlords that may not run the business the way that the original landlord did.

    I also don't think that private rented housing should provide better security of tenure than ownership.

    At the moment if you rent a house from a landlord who is letting as a business there is no reason why they would ask a good tenant to leave a property. Landlords do not make money from vacant houses. The whole point of letting property is to get an income.

    To do anything about this you have got to first find out which landlords are issuing section 21 notices and why.
    • t0rt0ise
    • By t0rt0ise 10th Oct 16, 12:41 PM
    • 2,818 Posts
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    t0rt0ise
    • #4
    • 10th Oct 16, 12:41 PM
    • #4
    • 10th Oct 16, 12:41 PM
    In my opinion the right to buy scheme should be stopped, more social housing should be built and people given life tenancies. There is nothing worse than not having a stable address, somewhere to call home where you feel safe and don't have to live as if it's temporary all the time. Everyone should either have decent secure rented accommodation or own their accommodation. Once more housing is available for social rent, private renting will diminish.
    • carefullycautious
    • By carefullycautious 10th Oct 16, 1:57 PM
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    carefullycautious
    • #5
    • 10th Oct 16, 1:57 PM
    • #5
    • 10th Oct 16, 1:57 PM
    In my opinion the right to buy scheme should be stopped, more social housing should be built and people given life tenancies. There is nothing worse than not having a stable address, somewhere to call home where you feel safe and don't have to live as if it's temporary all the time. Everyone should either have decent secure rented accommodation or own their accommodation. Once more housing is available for social rent, private renting will diminish.
    Originally posted by t0rt0ise

    That's all very well (life Tenancies ) if the tenants are decent and law abiding, I think a lot of the starter tenancies and assured are being used so that the landlord can get them out easier if they display anti social behaviour etc. I know our social landlord brought this in for just those reasons.
    • Person_one
    • By Person_one 10th Oct 16, 1:58 PM
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    Person_one
    • #6
    • 10th Oct 16, 1:58 PM
    • #6
    • 10th Oct 16, 1:58 PM
    No private renting, all rented housing should be social housing, secure tenancies, fair rents.

    In fact, in my perfect world there'd be no home ownership either, housing would be an essential service provided by the state, like the NHS or the police.

    I may be in a minority of 1 on this though!
    • seven-day-weekend
    • By seven-day-weekend 10th Oct 16, 2:03 PM
    • 27,823 Posts
    • 51,039 Thanks
    seven-day-weekend
    • #7
    • 10th Oct 16, 2:03 PM
    • #7
    • 10th Oct 16, 2:03 PM
    No private renting, all rented housing should be social housing, secure tenancies, fair rents.

    In fact, in my perfect world there'd be no home ownership either, housing would be an essential service provided by the state, like the NHS or the police.

    I may be in a minority of 1 on this though!
    Originally posted by Person_one
    Almost certainly!!

    Assuming a non-perfect world, how would you allocate social housing?
    To love someone is to learn the song in their heart and to sing it to them when they have forgotten it
    'I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen. Not only because I see it, but because I see everything by it': C.S. Lewis
    St. Augustine — 'In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity.'
    • Bluebirdman of Alcathays
    • By Bluebirdman of Alcathays 10th Oct 16, 2:15 PM
    • 2,690 Posts
    • 2,963 Thanks
    Bluebirdman of Alcathays
    • #8
    • 10th Oct 16, 2:15 PM
    • #8
    • 10th Oct 16, 2:15 PM
    No private renting, all rented housing should be social housing, secure tenancies, fair rents.

    In fact, in my perfect world there'd be no home ownership either, housing would be an essential service provided by the state, like the NHS or the police.

    I may be in a minority of 1 on this though!
    Originally posted by Person_one
    Clothes and food are vital to sustain life - can we nationalise M&S?
    • Person_one
    • By Person_one 10th Oct 16, 4:28 PM
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    Person_one
    • #9
    • 10th Oct 16, 4:28 PM
    • #9
    • 10th Oct 16, 4:28 PM
    Clothes and food are vital to sustain life - can we nationalise M&S?
    Originally posted by Bluebirdman of Alcathays
    Fine by me.
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 10th Oct 16, 5:07 PM
    • 14,325 Posts
    • 36,466 Thanks
    FBaby
    AST would be more secure if the Section 21 was abolished. Then landlords would only be able to evict if they had a valid reason. This might mean increasing the number of grounds a Section 8 can be issued on.
    I agree with this, but there should be a ground on the basis of personal need, ie. the landlord loses his job and needs to sale, or divorce etc...

    In fact, in my perfect world there'd be no home ownership either, housing would be an essential service provided by the state, like the NHS or the police.
    So how do you allocate the large 5 bed detached next to the top performing school as opposed to the small 2 bedroom in the worse estate?
    • Jackieboy
    • By Jackieboy 10th Oct 16, 5:29 PM
    • 251 Posts
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    Jackieboy
    Three year leases would give renters more security and continuity but it would need to be easier for LLs to evict for nonpayers and those abusing the property. A degree of rent control wouldn't go amiss either.
    • Person_one
    • By Person_one 10th Oct 16, 5:30 PM
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    Person_one
    I agree with this, but there should be a ground on the basis of personal need, ie. the landlord loses his job and needs to sale, or divorce etc...


    So how do you allocate the large 5 bed detached next to the top performing school as opposed to the small 2 bedroom in the worse estate?
    Originally posted by FBaby

    Well you see, in my world the schools would all be equally good too.

    To make it happen, I'd probably have to knock the whole country and start from scratch with my new benevolent dictatorship, but a girl can dream.

    Let's face it, the current state of affairs is far worse than what I'm suggesting, we're just used to it like the proverbial frog in boiling water.
    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 10th Oct 16, 7:19 PM
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    Cakeguts
    Well you see, in my world the schools would all be equally good too.

    To make it happen, I'd probably have to knock the whole country and start from scratch with my new benevolent dictatorship, but a girl can dream.

    Let's face it, the current state of affairs is far worse than what I'm suggesting, we're just used to it like the proverbial frog in boiling water.
    Originally posted by Person_one
    Could we also reinstate the old levels of education so that people don't have to pay for the standard of education that used to be free at school. In the interests of saving money more people need to make a fuss about the fact that many students have to now study for a masters degree in order to get to the same level of education that used to be a bachelors. This is an extra year of debt for education that used to be free at school.
    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 10th Oct 16, 7:26 PM
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    • 1,122 Thanks
    Cakeguts
    Three year leases would give renters more security and continuity but it would need to be easier for LLs to evict for nonpayers and those abusing the property. A degree of rent control wouldn't go amiss either.
    Originally posted by Jackieboy
    Can I suggest that you research what happened in the past when rent controls were introduced?

    Who is going to decide what the rents for any particular area are going to be? It is a nice idea but past experiences show that it doesn't work in the way that people think it will. What generally happens is that it reduces the number of properties available for rent. The ones that are lost are usually the nice ones.
    • pinkshoes
    • By pinkshoes 10th Oct 16, 8:44 PM
    • 14,609 Posts
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    pinkshoes
    I think anyone renting out a house should do it on a long term basis with tenants given option of 3 or 5 year contracts. A bit like in France...

    LLs should be easily able to evict non paying tenants.

    Tenants could only get out of contracts with a change of job location or similar, or on the LLs agreement.

    Social housing should NOT be sold off. Right to buy was/still is a terrible idea. Social housing should be given as a priority to those families with a parent/parents who work full time on low incomes.

    Unemployed needing social housing should be grateful for what they get - this may sound harsh, but this is how it used to be, and at least people used to be grateful! Obviously there are exceptions...

    The biggest problem in most areas is that those wanting to buy struggle with saving a deposit due to high rents.
    Should've = Should HAVE (not 'of')
    Would've = Would HAVE (not 'of')

    No, I am not perfect, but yes I do judge people on their use of basic English language. If you didn't know the above, then learn it! (If English is your second language, then you are forgiven!)
    • TheGardener
    • By TheGardener 10th Oct 16, 9:03 PM
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    TheGardener
    Right to buy should end. Introductory tenancies should be the norm followed where appropriate by secure tenancies. Low income in work should have priority for social housing and key workers (nurses, teaching assistants, environmental services staff etc) should be supported with social housing. The 'Pay to Stay' plan should have a realistic income bar but TBH - how is any council/housing association ever going to administer the Pay to Stay plan anyway - it would take an army of admin staff to keep tabs on a families earnings and the currently low bar simply creates yet another 'trap' making it uneconomical for low income families to progress. Pay to stay has the potential to drive more ambitious families out and leave 'ghettos' of benefits and unemployed on estates - it risks a return to the sink estates of the 80's. The best sort of communities are the balanced ones - with a mix of demographics - too many of any one demographic doesn't work.
    • KingS6
    • By KingS6 11th Oct 16, 4:20 AM
    • 394 Posts
    • 332 Thanks
    KingS6
    Regulated tenancies. A few people here and there still have them.

    These should be offered wholesale but as an earned privilege not an automatic right when you apply for a property.

    This privilege will be earned by the person in question demonstrating in a previous capacity that they are high quality tenants.

    This should be counteracted with a ratings scheme for landlords too. Those who don't tow the line are struck off and named and shamed.
    • MistyZ
    • By MistyZ 11th Oct 16, 6:10 AM
    • 45 Posts
    • 94 Thanks
    MistyZ
    We need a more innovative approach to housing in general. It's not just about quantity but quality. Sympathetic / imaginative refurbishment and conversion of existing buildings would help. The standard of new builds is, as a generalisation, dreadful. It's all about making a quick buck.

    Yes, we need to re-instate social housing. Starting with a modern equivalent of prefabs - nice little places with some green space around them and access to services & facilities. A new think on high rise wouldn't go amiss either, high rise flats can be fine, it all depends on context. The housing crisis is a massive social problem. Someone said that unemployed people needing social housing should be grateful for what they can get .... eh? Grateful for nothing, then. Those of us who can afford to buy should be grateful though. It's not all about reaping the reward for hard work, access to housing is far, far more complex than that.
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 11th Oct 16, 6:14 AM
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    FBaby
    Well you see, in my world the schools would all be equally good too.
    Then you would have to take down all the houses and rebuilt them all to look all the same.

    Then you are left with no doctors, no magistrate, no entrepreneurs, no head teachers even because after all, why would you bother taking on the stress and demands of these jobs when you'll end up with the same house and your kids going to the same school than if you take on a job with no responsibility.
    • Person_one
    • By Person_one 11th Oct 16, 8:15 AM
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    Person_one
    Then you would have to take down all the houses and rebuilt them all to look all the same.

    Then you are left with no doctors, no magistrate, no entrepreneurs, no head teachers even because after all, why would you bother taking on the stress and demands of these jobs when you'll end up with the same house and your kids going to the same school than if you take on a job with no responsibility.
    Originally posted by FBaby
    Don't assume everybody else has the same motivations that you do.

    As an example, magistrates are volunteers.
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