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    • Richard53
    • By Richard53 10th Oct 16, 12:05 AM
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    Richard53
    Giving way on a hill
    • #1
    • 10th Oct 16, 12:05 AM
    Giving way on a hill 10th Oct 16 at 12:05 AM
    Where I live, there are a lot of hills. Many of the roads are narrow, with 'pinch points' where if two vehicles meet, one must give way. As a learner back in the mediaeval period, I was taught that the vehicle going downhill should (all other things being equal) give way to the vehicle coming up the hill. The basis for this was that it is always easier to get going downhill from a standstill than to move off uphill. I was told it originated in the days of horse and cart, but was applicable to motor traffic to a smaller degree.


    A lot of folk either haven't heard of this or ignore it. Is it still taught, or are modern cars deemed so advanced that it is no longer necessary? This isn't a rant; I would genuinely like to know. Most people round me seem to apply the rule 'who gets there first goes first', regardless of the gradient. I always try to anticipate and will give way to uphill traffic, but am I just stuck in the past?
    If all misfortunes were laid in one common heap whence everyone must take an equal portion, most people would be contented to take their own and depart. (Attrib. to Socrates)
Page 2
    • Richard53
    • By Richard53 11th Oct 16, 12:08 AM
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    Richard53
    Thanks for the link. I had looked, but couldn't find any reference. It seems rather an afterthought in the HC, though. When I was taught this, it was in the category of 'things every driver must know'.


    Good to see so many courteous drivers on this forum I realise exceptions must be made for large vehicles, towing vehicles etc (which I why I said 'all other things being equal') but when it's car vs car, I think many people must be in the same organisation as those who wait until the annual service before fixing a light bulb - in a car, driving a car, but not thinking about what they are doing.

    My pet hate is the lack of courtesy. You know the road, see car a distance away and pull in and wait sometimes for 30 seconds plus and they breeze by without a wave of thanks.
    Originally posted by Hintza
    That bugs me too. If the traffic is slow and I have a window open, I shout 'Thank you! You're welcome!' as loud as I can. It alters nothing, but I feel better.
    If all misfortunes were laid in one common heap whence everyone must take an equal portion, most people would be contented to take their own and depart. (Attrib. to Socrates)
    • takman
    • By takman 11th Oct 16, 12:33 AM
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    takman
    I don't think it is often taught anymore because I wasn't taught it by an instructor and neither was anyone else I have talked to it about.

    I have been coming uphill on narrow lanes with my caravan on the back and even then some people won't give way. But the worst thing is people who can't reverse without going into the hedge every 5 meters. They really shouldn't be on the road if the can't reverse down a lane. If I can reverse with my caravan on the back it really shouldn't be too much to expect a car to reverse.
    • NBLondon
    • By NBLondon 11th Oct 16, 9:17 AM
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    NBLondon
    I don't think it is often taught anymore because I wasn't taught it by an instructor and neither was anyone else I have talked to it about.
    Originally posted by takman
    I wasn't taught it by an instructor because I learnt to drive in a city where there are very few hills (in fact the hill start was practised on a railway bridge). I learnt it from my father and backed up by reading.

    It may be less of an issue with modern cars than in the 60s or 70s - my Focus has hill start assist - but the principle is still there.
    One day I'll think of something witty - Apparently I have!
    • JP08
    • By JP08 11th Oct 16, 9:53 AM
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    JP08
    I wasn't taught it by an instructor because I learnt to drive in a city where there are very few hills (in fact the hill start was practised on a railway bridge)
    Originally posted by NBLondon
    I don't recall practising a hill start at all when learning to drive ... but then I did learn in King's Lynn - a town that only had one box junction at the time (and that for only half the road), and no handy railway bridge.

    Likewise dual carriageways, let alone motorways, were exotic creations that were never taught - there was a couple of miles of dual carriageway to the south of town in 1988 but that was it for best part of 40 miles.

    What it did have, though, on the main road into town from my village, was one of those three lane roads with the shared central overtaking lane - you learn a lot about your car width and what a 100+ mph closing speed looks like when someone coming the opposite way starts to overtake when you're already doing the same ...
    • building with lego
    • By building with lego 11th Oct 16, 9:58 PM
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    building with lego
    I wasn't taught it by an instructor because I learnt to drive in a city where there are very few hills (in fact the hill start was practised on a railway bridge). I learnt it from my father and backed up by reading.

    It may be less of an issue with modern cars than in the 60s or 70s - my Focus has hill start assist - but the principle is still there.
    Originally posted by NBLondon

    I had my first driving lesson 15 months ago, and I was taught o give way to vehicles approaching uphill. (Hilly city, lots of single-carriageway roads due to cars parked both sides.)

    This, plus several other things makes me wonder whether he just taught everyone to an advanced level: lots of my more experienced friends will turn their wheels while waiting to turn right; I was taught to keep them straight in case of a rear-end shunt. Lots of my friends rely solely on the handbrake when parking; I was taught to use the gearbox too. Lots of my friends don't observe tyres and tarmac, don't turn their wheels in or out when parking on a hill. Lots of them are oblivious to the signals of the white lines in the middle of the road as to what is ahead. Have they forgotten, or were they never taught?
    They call me Dr Worm... I'm interested in things; I'm not a real doctor but I am a real worm.
    • treboeth
    • By treboeth 11th Oct 16, 11:00 PM
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    treboeth
    I had my first driving lesson 15 months ago, and I was taught o give way to vehicles approaching uphill. (Hilly city, lots of single-carriageway roads due to cars parked both sides.)

    This, plus several other things makes me wonder whether he just taught everyone to an advanced level: lots of my more experienced friends will turn their wheels while waiting to turn right; I was taught to keep them straight in case of a rear-end shunt. Lots of my friends rely solely on the handbrake when parking; I was taught to use the gearbox too. Lots of my friends don't observe tyres and tarmac, don't turn their wheels in or out when parking on a hill. Lots of them are oblivious to the signals of the white lines in the middle of the road as to what is ahead. Have they forgotten, or were they never taught?
    Originally posted by building with lego

    Sounds like you had someone who cares about the drivers they are teaching, rather than just teaching them enough to pass a test

    Hope you recommend him to as many people as possible
    My instructors had a similar approach (2 of them ) both ladies who could drive
    • Richard53
    • By Richard53 12th Oct 16, 6:16 AM
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    Richard53
    lots of my more experienced friends will turn their wheels while waiting to turn right; I was taught to keep them straight in case of a rear-end shunt.
    Originally posted by building with lego
    Ah, yes, that's another one that no-one seems to teach any more. That one could save your life.

    My instructors had a similar approach (2 of them ) both ladies who could drive
    Originally posted by treboeth
    The person who taught me back in 1971 was female, too. I had a lot of ribbing from my mates, but she was an excellent teacher. And, when she took over the car, she was pretty quick, too.
    If all misfortunes were laid in one common heap whence everyone must take an equal portion, most people would be contented to take their own and depart. (Attrib. to Socrates)
    • building with lego
    • By building with lego 12th Oct 16, 7:15 AM
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    building with lego
    Sounds like you had someone who cares about the drivers they are teaching, rather than just teaching them enough to pass a test

    Hope you recommend him to as many people as possible
    My instructors had a similar approach (2 of them ) both ladies who could drive
    Originally posted by treboeth

    He was very keen on "teaching safe driving for life" and has ROSPA Gold and has already taught three people I know since me. He'll teach my children too, I hope.
    They call me Dr Worm... I'm interested in things; I'm not a real doctor but I am a real worm.
    • Exemplar
    • By Exemplar 12th Oct 16, 7:50 AM
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    Exemplar
    I'll back up most on here. People coming up have right of way.

    One of the lads in our office has just passed his test and I was disappointed to see that his instructor did not teach him manners, rather he was taught 'how to pass the test'.
    'Just because its on the internet don't believe it 100%'. Abraham Lincoln.
    • Gloomendoom
    • By Gloomendoom 12th Oct 16, 8:03 AM
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    Gloomendoom
    What it did have, though, on the main road into town from my village, was one of those three lane roads with the shared central overtaking lane -.
    Originally posted by JP08
    That was known as the suicide lane.

    You don't see many (any?) about these days.
    Advice; it rhymes with mice. Advise; it rhymes with wise.
    • JP08
    • By JP08 12th Oct 16, 8:38 AM
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    JP08
    That was known as the suicide lane.
    You don't see many (any?) about these days.
    Originally posted by Gloomendoom
    The one concerned has been re-marked as a two lane road, with wide lanes and wide shoulders - just means that people now overtake down the middle, hoping the oncoming traffic pulls over onto the shoulder a bit ... this is Norfolk after all (and that's from someone who's proud to be Norfolk 'n Good !)
    • Car 54
    • By Car 54 12th Oct 16, 9:30 AM
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    Car 54
    I'll back up most on here. People coming up have right of way.
    Originally posted by Exemplar
    No, they haven't.

    First, there is no such thing as right of way.

    Second, the Highway Code only says you should give way to them on single-track roads. There is no mention of the situation on normal roads.

    However, it does say we should be considerate to other road users at all times, and as others have said this "unofficial rule" is an example of courtesy and consideration.
    • Richard53
    • By Richard53 12th Oct 16, 8:17 PM
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    Richard53
    First, there is no such thing as right of way.

    Second, the Highway Code only says you should give way to them on single-track roads. There is no mention of the situation on normal roads.
    Originally posted by Car 54
    I was careful not to use the term in my OP, saying 'give way' instead. I agree; there is no 'right', just learning ways in which being considerate can help everyone to have a better day.
    If all misfortunes were laid in one common heap whence everyone must take an equal portion, most people would be contented to take their own and depart. (Attrib. to Socrates)
    • Richard53
    • By Richard53 12th Oct 16, 8:30 PM
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    • 1,912 Thanks
    Richard53
    That was known as the suicide lane.

    You don't see many (any?) about these days.
    Originally posted by Gloomendoom
    There are still some about. There's a stretch I use every day between home and work. About a mile long, dead straight, significant gradient, three lanes and a blind summit at the top. It's also the only reliable overtaking opportunity for a couple of miles either way, so the middle lane gets used a lot. It's marked as two lanes up, one lane down, so not strictly a shared lane, but it's often used that way, especially late at night. There was a huge accident near to the top a few years ago, when some Barry Boys were racing up the hill, and one muppet decided to use the single down lane as a lane to overtake people who were already overtaking going uphill. Some other cars came over the brow of the hill going down, and there was carnage. No-one killed, thank goodness, but some serious injuries. Three jailed.


    https://goo.gl/maps/mPRQC2787n52

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-30574895


    I use the centre lane a lot, but it's always with eyes peeled and a careful right foot.
    Last edited by Richard53; 12-10-2016 at 8:33 PM.
    If all misfortunes were laid in one common heap whence everyone must take an equal portion, most people would be contented to take their own and depart. (Attrib. to Socrates)
    • NBLondon
    • By NBLondon 13th Oct 16, 9:01 AM
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    NBLondon
    Second, the Highway Code only says you should give way to them on single-track roads. There is no mention of the situation on normal roads.
    Originally posted by Car 54
    I wouldn't be surprised if when that rule was first written, the situation of both sides of a "normal" road being jammed with parked cars thus making it effectively a single-track road wasn't as common as it is today.


    As I said before - my father taught me the rule of thumb and since he learned to drive in the 1960s on tractors it was probably far more useful then.
    One day I'll think of something witty - Apparently I have!
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