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    • Gardenpot
    • By Gardenpot 9th Oct 16, 9:57 PM
    • 5Posts
    • 0Thanks
    Gardenpot
    Change of Title Question / advice
    • #1
    • 9th Oct 16, 9:57 PM
    Change of Title Question / advice 9th Oct 16 at 9:57 PM
    I am trying to add my spouse's name on the title of a new buy to let leasehold flat. Mortgage is buy to let only. We received the below charges and requests ;

    Freeholder’s charge through it is agent SXXXXX:

    Transfer - Deed of Covenant - £234.00


    Transfer - Notice of Transfer - £162.00


    Transfer - Certificate of Compliance - £216.00


    Letting – Deed of Covenant - £150.00


    Letting – Notice of Letting - £120.00

    Management company’s charge :

    Transfer – Deed of Covenant and Notice of Transfer and Certificate of Compliance - £180.00
    Letting – Sublet Form - £120.00


    Our conveyor thinks subletting content is required because of below clause highlighted in our lease, but i am not sure so I would like to confirm and appreciate your valuable opinions and advice.

    My question is if subletting content and deed are not required but they insist , what is the next step? The reason is once we summit a subletting form, I am worried it has to be paid for after each tenant and all other registration fee from now on. They are very famous for expensive administration charges but we only knew once the developer sold to the current free holder.



    Alienation

    1. Not to assign transfer underlet charge or part with the possession or occupation of only a part or parts of the property ( as opposite to the whole of the property)
    2. Not to assign or transfer or grant a registrable lease of the whole of the property without contemporaneously with such assignment transfer or letting ( as the case may be):
    (A) procuring that the assignee transferee or
    tenant (as the case may be) enters into a deed of convenant
    (B) making payment to the landlord or (as directed in pursuance of clause 3.1) the developer of the yearly rent including any arrears and any other sums which have fallen due and remain outstanding under this lease prior to the date of such assignment transfer or letting
    (C) making payment of the expenses including any arrears and any other sums which have fallen due and remain outstanding under this lease prior to the date of such assignment transfer or letting
    (D) obtaining the written consent of the landlord (such consent not to be withheld if paragraphs (a) to (c) above have been met)

    3 During the last seven years of the term not to assign transfer underlet or part with the possession or occupation of the property without the prior written consent of the landlord (not to be unreasonably withheld)
    4 notice of devolution
    1. To lodge or procure to be lodged with the landlord ( or the landlord's solicitors or agents as the landlord shall so direct ) for the purpose of registration:

    (a) all underleases of and all charges by way of legal mortgage upon the property or any part
    (b) all other instruments made for effecting or evidencing any devolution of any legal estate in the property whether of the term or any sub~term or other derivative interest in the property or any part thereof and including probates and letters of administration and surrenders of any sub~terms and discharges of any charges of any charges by way of legal mortgage or certified copies of the originals but excluding assured shorthold tenancies where notification is not required and
    (c) a certified copy of each deed of covenant referred in paragraph 2(a).
Page 1
    • bobobski
    • By bobobski 9th Oct 16, 10:23 PM
    • 398 Posts
    • 1,021 Thanks
    bobobski
    • #2
    • 9th Oct 16, 10:23 PM
    • #2
    • 9th Oct 16, 10:23 PM
    Why on earth do they think you're both assigning and subletting? You're just assigning the lease to two people, albeit one of them is you. You're not intending to create a sublease also. Besides, a legal owner cannot grant a lease to itself (it can own both a freehold/leasehold and a lease under that if it buys both interests but originally the lease must have been granted from A to B).

    You'll need the deed of covenant, but only in respect of the assignment.

    On (D), just to make sure, does it say consent is not to be withheld, or not to be unreasonably withheld? The difference being, of course, that the landlord can say no in one scenario and not the other.
    #86: Save £12k in 2016: £7,792.18 / £10,000 (77.92%) | #[ ]: Save 12k in 2017: £0 / £12,000 (0%)
    House deposit by 31/12/2020: £10,763.60 / £60,000 (17.93%)
    Emergency fund by 31/12/2020: £294.91 / £5,000 (5.89%)
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 9th Oct 16, 10:40 PM
    • 3,850 Posts
    • 3,422 Thanks
    davidmcn
    • #3
    • 9th Oct 16, 10:40 PM
    • #3
    • 9th Oct 16, 10:40 PM
    You're not intending to create a sublease also.
    Originally posted by bobobski
    OP says it's a BTL.
    • bobobski
    • By bobobski 9th Oct 16, 10:40 PM
    • 398 Posts
    • 1,021 Thanks
    bobobski
    • #4
    • 9th Oct 16, 10:40 PM
    • #4
    • 9th Oct 16, 10:40 PM
    Another point, since your conveyancer sounds incompetent - if there is a lease, consent is only required where the lease is "registrable". Since this is a buy to let, that means you don't need consent for an AST. Just so you know before your conveyancer tries to get you to come back once a year and charge you fresh fees for something unnecessary.
    #86: Save £12k in 2016: £7,792.18 / £10,000 (77.92%) | #[ ]: Save 12k in 2017: £0 / £12,000 (0%)
    House deposit by 31/12/2020: £10,763.60 / £60,000 (17.93%)
    Emergency fund by 31/12/2020: £294.91 / £5,000 (5.89%)
    • bobobski
    • By bobobski 9th Oct 16, 10:41 PM
    • 398 Posts
    • 1,021 Thanks
    bobobski
    • #5
    • 9th Oct 16, 10:41 PM
    • #5
    • 9th Oct 16, 10:41 PM
    OP says it's a BTL.
    Originally posted by davidmcn
    Yes but (a) ASTs aren't registrable and (b) the question is about the move to be in OP's and their partner's name, so the BtL element isn't relevant.
    #86: Save £12k in 2016: £7,792.18 / £10,000 (77.92%) | #[ ]: Save 12k in 2017: £0 / £12,000 (0%)
    House deposit by 31/12/2020: £10,763.60 / £60,000 (17.93%)
    Emergency fund by 31/12/2020: £294.91 / £5,000 (5.89%)
    • G_M
    • By G_M 9th Oct 16, 11:06 PM
    • 37,049 Posts
    • 40,975 Thanks
    G_M
    • #6
    • 9th Oct 16, 11:06 PM
    • #6
    • 9th Oct 16, 11:06 PM
    I suspect their arguemet is that since the leaseholder is changing, therefore the landlord of the tenancy is changing too.

    However I agree that clause b) refers to " a registrable lease " - I assume that means registerable with the Land Registry which would not apply unless the tenancy were for 21+ years!

    This is basically the freeholder and/or his agent screwing every last p out of the leaseholder!
    • bobobski
    • By bobobski 10th Oct 16, 7:24 AM
    • 398 Posts
    • 1,021 Thanks
    bobobski
    • #7
    • 10th Oct 16, 7:24 AM
    • #7
    • 10th Oct 16, 7:24 AM
    However I agree that clause b) refers to " a registrable lease " - I assume that means registerable with the Land Registry which would not apply unless the tenancy were for 21+ years!
    Originally posted by G_M
    7 years now, not 21

    Besides, the wording of the alienation clause doesn't say that consent is required whenever anything happens with any sublease - it says consent is required for the grant of a sublease. A change in landlord does not mean the sublease is being granted anew.
    #86: Save £12k in 2016: £7,792.18 / £10,000 (77.92%) | #[ ]: Save 12k in 2017: £0 / £12,000 (0%)
    House deposit by 31/12/2020: £10,763.60 / £60,000 (17.93%)
    Emergency fund by 31/12/2020: £294.91 / £5,000 (5.89%)
    • Gardenpot
    • By Gardenpot 13th Oct 16, 3:05 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Gardenpot
    • #8
    • 13th Oct 16, 3:05 PM
    • #8
    • 13th Oct 16, 3:05 PM
    Many thanks for all the replies so far - very informative.
    • Gardenpot
    • By Gardenpot 2nd Nov 16, 4:29 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Gardenpot
    • #9
    • 2nd Nov 16, 4:29 PM
    • #9
    • 2nd Nov 16, 4:29 PM
    Many thanks for the replies so far to our original thread - but just to clarify....


    ......Even if there is no clause that requires content to sublet in the leasehold, sXXXXX, the freeholder's agent, have still asked for payment of subletting notice and underletting deed for each tenant and any new tenancy contract. That means once we agree to sign this notice and deed, as we understand it ,we will have to pay each year from now on. Can anyone please advise where we can complain or ask for independent legal advise? What ,if any, is a quicker way to solve this problem? Is it legal for the freeholders agent to do that? Any help/advice appreciated - thanks.
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