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    • gdog1007
    • By gdog1007 9th Oct 16, 9:15 AM
    • 4Posts
    • 3Thanks
    gdog1007
    BW Legal letter from PCN issued in 2011
    • #1
    • 9th Oct 16, 9:15 AM
    BW Legal letter from PCN issued in 2011 9th Oct 16 at 9:15 AM
    Hi,

    I am new to this thread and am looking for some advice as i have seen various pieces of advice floating around re private parking tickets.

    i have today opened up 3 letters relating to pcn's issued in 2011 from currys car park. The letters are from BW legal and are all for 154 pounds.

    At the time of the tickets being issued my place of work (police station) had a local agreement with the manager of the store that allowed officers to park their private vehicles at the side of their car park. I recall a nuber of colleagues receiving tickets but the advice was to hand them to the manager who stated he would cancel the tickets for us as it was an error on the enforcement officer.

    As such i thought nothing of it and received no letters from the company.

    As this agreement was in place, would the advice be to simply inform BW legal of this via a written letter and state that further letters from the manager at the time will be aquired to assist should they wish to pursue the matter to the county court?

    I have seen a number of draft letters with regard to POFA 2012 but would prefer to be completely transparant from the outset as i feel i have completely bullet proof argument.

    any help / advice would be appreciated.
Page 1
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 9th Oct 16, 9:35 AM
    • 36,492 Posts
    • 73,336 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #2
    • 9th Oct 16, 9:35 AM
    • #2
    • 9th Oct 16, 9:35 AM
    There has been a flood of BW Legal cases recently, many of them from before the POFA 2012 was enacted.

    I'm not an expert but I suggest you do a search on this forum for similar threads. The advice from the experts will be the same as for you so you should be able to find help soon.

    Don't do anything yet until you have searched, and a few of the more knowledgeable regulars have replied here. At some point you will write to them telling them that they can't add on fees (there will be an extra 54 quid added on to the 100 quid parking charge) and that since this is pre POFA, the keeper cannot be held liable.

    You need to complain to the SRA about this, and there are lots of posts about what you should say.

    The important thing I that you must not, under any circumstances, reveal who was driving. Your wording therefore must be very careful. No, I parked, or anything like that. There is you, the keeper, and there is this other person, the driver.
    You need to get that mindset fixed in your head.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 9th Oct 16, 9:37 AM
    • 4,150 Posts
    • 4,774 Thanks
    beamerguy
    • #3
    • 9th Oct 16, 9:37 AM
    • #3
    • 9th Oct 16, 9:37 AM
    Hi,

    I am new to this thread and am looking for some advice as i have seen various pieces of advice floating around re private parking tickets.

    i have today opened up 3 letters relating to pcn's issued in 2011 from currys car park. The letters are from BW legal and are all for 154 pounds.

    At the time of the tickets being issued my place of work (police station) had a local agreement with the manager of the store that allowed officers to park their private vehicles at the side of their car park. I recall a nuber of colleagues receiving tickets but the advice was to hand them to the manager who stated he would cancel the tickets for us as it was an error on the enforcement officer.

    As such i thought nothing of it and received no letters from the company.

    As this agreement was in place, would the advice be to simply inform BW legal of this via a written letter and state that further letters from the manager at the time will be aquired to assist should they wish to pursue the matter to the county court?

    I have seen a number of draft letters with regard to POFA 2012 but would prefer to be completely transparant from the outset as i feel i have completely bullet proof argument.

    any help / advice would be appreciated.
    Originally posted by gdog1007
    First stop is the store manager and present him with the BWLegal rubbish.
    Assume the tickets were from either VCS or Excel

    You might think you have a bullet proof case, BWLegal are not interested so assuming the letters use the word "may" about court they are debt collector style.

    These are pre POFA2012 tickets where they need to know the driver and you will not say.

    As you have read on here, BWLegal are under investigation by the SRA so it is very important to know what they actually say in their letters, ie: threats and false statements
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 9th Oct 16, 11:41 AM
    • 5,561 Posts
    • 4,272 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #4
    • 9th Oct 16, 11:41 AM
    • #4
    • 9th Oct 16, 11:41 AM
    £154 per ticket is not allowed. Did they mention Elliott v Loake? Did they mention County Court Judgements, did they mention your credit rating?

    Complain to Duncan Allen, Head of Compliance, SRA

    http://www.sra.org.uk/consumers/problems/report-solicitor.page

    The more complaints they get the better.

    Read this

    http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=107836
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 9th Oct 16, 11:50 AM
    • 11,038 Posts
    • 16,478 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #5
    • 9th Oct 16, 11:50 AM
    • #5
    • 9th Oct 16, 11:50 AM
    Are/were you a serving police officer?

    Was this an official arrangement between the Police Service and Currys?

    Can you get the officer-in-charge to write a letter of complaint to BWL - obviously using Police Service headed paper - telling them to drop the charges (or see them in court at their earliest opportunity)?
    NEWBIES - wise up - DO NOT IGNORE A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE - you have been warned!

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Please note: I am NOT involved in any 'paid for' appeals service.
    • gdog1007
    • By gdog1007 9th Oct 16, 12:23 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    gdog1007
    • #6
    • 9th Oct 16, 12:23 PM
    • #6
    • 9th Oct 16, 12:23 PM
    They did mention ccj and credit rating.

    I will certainly be complaining.

    It was on official local agreement between the manager and staff at the station. I was and am still a serving officer.

    I am going to try and speak with the manager today to try and resolve this either by a letter from him confirming the agreement or by contacting his head office.

    Thanks for your replys so far.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 9th Oct 16, 12:35 PM
    • 11,038 Posts
    • 16,478 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #7
    • 9th Oct 16, 12:35 PM
    • #7
    • 9th Oct 16, 12:35 PM
    I am going to try and speak with the manager today to try and resolve this either by a letter from him confirming the agreement or by contacting his head office.
    If Currys contracted with VCS or Excel (the two sister company PPCs linked to BWL) then they should be instructing the relevant one to cancel this. A copy of a confirmation of the Police:Currys agreement is not likely to be strong enough to kill this off right now.

    Might be useful if it ever gets to court, but you don't want the hassle of dealing with the paperwork in defending a case if you can get it nipped in the bud immediately.

    I'd be going in there in full uniform (handcuffs ready ) and exert pressure on the manager to sort this out now (you must have training in how to make people follow your instructions!!).

    Do let us know how you get on.
    NEWBIES - wise up - DO NOT IGNORE A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE - you have been warned!

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Please note: I am NOT involved in any 'paid for' appeals service.
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 9th Oct 16, 12:42 PM
    • 4,150 Posts
    • 4,774 Thanks
    beamerguy
    • #8
    • 9th Oct 16, 12:42 PM
    • #8
    • 9th Oct 16, 12:42 PM
    They did mention ccj and credit rating.

    I will certainly be complaining.

    It was on official local agreement between the manager and staff at the station. I was and am still a serving officer.

    I am going to try and speak with the manager today to try and resolve this either by a letter from him confirming the agreement or by contacting his head office.

    Thanks for your replys so far.
    Originally posted by gdog1007
    That's the method BW Legal use.

    You are now seeing first hand what thousands of people are facing from BWLegal.

    My understanding of the law is that you are proven innocent until proven guilty
    BWLegal assume the latter and now they are trying to extort money from you using false threats.
    You should bring this to the attention of your local Commander as I'm certain that in your area, if that was happening to householders from someone door knocking with menacing threats you guys would be on the case.
    The only difference is that this menace uses the postal service
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 9th Oct 16, 12:46 PM
    • 36,492 Posts
    • 73,336 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #9
    • 9th Oct 16, 12:46 PM
    • #9
    • 9th Oct 16, 12:46 PM
    They did mention ccj and credit rating.

    I will certainly be complaining.

    It was on official local agreement between the manager and staff at the station. I was and am still a serving officer.

    I am going to try and speak with the manager today to try and resolve this either by a letter from him confirming the agreement or by contacting his head office.

    Thanks for your replys so far.
    Originally posted by gdog1007
    You should also be reporting this to Trading Standards, your local MP, and Mrs May. There is a thread about complaints to the government concerning the scams being run by members of this unregulated industry. It is causing a lot of problems for thousands of people.
    This company, like many others, are being economical with the truth, and in some cases issuing bare faced lies. In my humble opinion that is trying to obtain money by deception, a criminal rather than civil offence.
    As a serving police officer you may wish to determine if any crimes have been committed whilst you learn about these scams in order to defend yourself. You may also wish to highlight this problem with your fellow officers and superiors.
    It may seem to many in power that it is not much a problem, but when you read that someone has been made homeless because they had a default judgement and CCJ against them that they weren't aware of, for a private parking ticket that was actually not even theirs, and multiply that by the tens of thousands of court papers issued each year (thirty thousand per year by one parking company alone) by these scammers, the total money involved runs into millions of pounds.
    That to me is not a minor issue.

    Perhaps when you reply to BW illegal you should do it on police station headed notepaper, and mention your rank.

    eta.

    Redx, it's good to know you are still around. You have been missed.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 09-10-2016 at 12:50 PM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • gdog1007
    • By gdog1007 9th Oct 16, 1:04 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    gdog1007
    I am hoping a visit to store will sort this problem out and am hoping the same manager remains in place.

    Should he have moved on however I feel I will be left with no other option but to go down the POFA route of getting BW to prove who the driver was.
    I am not entirely comfortable with this as should it ever go to court I would then have to show my hand and the necessary evidence re the local agreement that was in place.

    I am hoping God is smiling down on me and currys can sort this out.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 9th Oct 16, 1:05 PM
    • 11,038 Posts
    • 16,478 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    As a serving police officer you may wish to determine if any crimes have been committed whilst you learn about these scams in order to defend yourself. You may also wish to highlight this problem with your fellow officers and superiors.
    And don't let them give you the usual police fob-off 'It's a civilian matter Sir, sorry we can't help'.
    NEWBIES - wise up - DO NOT IGNORE A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE - you have been warned!

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Please note: I am NOT involved in any 'paid for' appeals service.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 9th Oct 16, 2:36 PM
    • 40,629 Posts
    • 52,501 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I am hoping a visit to store will sort this problem out and am hoping the same manager remains in place.

    Should he have moved on however I feel I will be left with no other option but to go down the POFA route of getting BW to prove who the driver was.
    I am not entirely comfortable with this as should it ever go to court I would then have to show my hand and the necessary evidence re the local agreement that was in place.

    I am hoping God is smiling down on me and currys can sort this out.
    Originally posted by gdog1007
    You really should be one of the people telling Mrs May about the entire scam:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5524754

    I know to the Police Service, Mrs May is not 'flavour of the month' so if you prefer, just write to the DCLG direct - and your MP.

    Please be heard, don't just get this cancelled for yourself, there is a bigger picture here.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • gdog1007
    • By gdog1007 9th Oct 16, 5:36 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    gdog1007
    Can you please explain to me what elements of BW legals letters are a scam?
    I maybe an officer of the law but I definitely not an expert in private parking law.

    Thanks again
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 9th Oct 16, 5:40 PM
    • 5,446 Posts
    • 4,968 Thanks
    pappa golf
    Can you please explain to me what elements of BW legals letters are a scam?
    I maybe an officer of the law but I definitely not an expert in private parking law.

    Thanks again
    Originally posted by gdog1007

    quoting Elliott v Loake when this was a criminal case (google it) and of no relevance or use in a civil court
    Have YOU had to walk 500 miles?
    Were you advised to walk 500 more?
    You could be entitled to compensation.
    Call the Pro Claimers NOW.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 9th Oct 16, 7:07 PM
    • 40,629 Posts
    • 52,501 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Can you please explain to me what elements of BW legals letters are a scam?
    I maybe an officer of the law but I definitely not an expert in private parking law.

    Thanks again
    Originally posted by gdog1007
    Have a look here, this one was written by a legally qualified person who used to post on a forum and who knows the score about PPC scams:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=71204429#post71204429

    If you want to look into it, compare your letters with the SRA’s Code of Conduct 2011, Chapter 11: Relations with third parties, and 'Indicative Behaviours'. If not then see that example and copy and adapt the style, especially using paragraphs about wording you too have had.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 9th Oct 16, 7:46 PM
    • 4,150 Posts
    • 4,774 Thanks
    beamerguy
    Can you please explain to me what elements of BW legals letters are a scam?
    I maybe an officer of the law but I definitely not an expert in private parking law.

    Thanks again
    Originally posted by gdog1007
    Scam or attempted extortion, same thing.

    In a nutshell ...

    They make claims that are untrue to scare people into paying
    Elliott v Loake, that being criminal not civil
    CCJ's which is only applicable if lost in court and you never paid
    Naming the driver
    Beavis v ParkingEye
    Ignoring the "principals" set by the SRA
    SRA’s Code of Conduct 2011, Chapter 11: Relations with third parties, and 'Indicative Behaviours' <<< as said by coupon-mad

    This is similar to those letters people receive saying they have won
    £££xxx's but in reverse

    The scam is to scare people into paying regardless of the truth

    It's all called BWLegal
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • The Slithy Tove
    • By The Slithy Tove 9th Oct 16, 8:33 PM
    • 3,100 Posts
    • 4,392 Thanks
    The Slithy Tove
    Or a shorter version on beamerguy's answer to:
    Can you please explain to me what elements of BW legals letters are a scam?
    Originally posted by gdog1007
    All of it.
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