Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@. Skimlinks & other affiliated links are turned on

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • phoebe1989seb
    • By phoebe1989seb 7th Oct 16, 10:11 PM
    • 2,924Posts
    • 6,078Thanks
    phoebe1989seb
    Second bathroom......or not?
    • #1
    • 7th Oct 16, 10:11 PM
    Second bathroom......or not? 7th Oct 16 at 10:11 PM
    We are twenty months in to a renovation of our current house and plan on selling when the work is completed next year.

    It is a quirky property comprising an original 1850s three storey (plus cellar) main house, with Arts & Crafts style two storey extension. To take advantage of the view, virtually all of the twenty-odd windows and six doors face onto the garden. Each end of the house has a staircase.

    The older section currently comprises -

    Cellar
    Ground floor - utility, WC/cloakroom, kitchen
    First floor - bedroom, bathroom, separate WC
    Second floor - two bedrooms, one of which has a tiny space (with window) currently fitted with a basin only

    The 'newer' section currently comprises -

    Ground floor - breakfast room, living room
    First floor - master bedroom, study

    The one large-ish bathroom (approx 13' x 8' 9) serves the four (double) bedrooms, but it is an awkward layout as the bathroom has a door at either end and is the only means of accessing opposite ends of the house whilst on the middle floor, leading as it does from Victorian landing to Arts & Crafts study. Both doors are lockable and we rarely have guests, but it is not ideal!

    Speaking to neighbours and local EAs, we get the impression that many buyers here (we're not from this area originally) expect any four bedroom house to have two bathrooms - in fact one potential purchaser refused to view our house because it didn't, instead going on to buy a nearby property that did - so from a resale POV this would be desirable......

    But - our target market (despite being a four bed, 2000 sq ft house) is likely to be empty nesters, such as ourselves. The house has a lot of stairs and the bedrooms are spread out over different floors/parts of the house. I know when previously selling a six bed Victorian house with mezzanines, buyers with young kids were put off by this.

    We plan to reconfigure the current bathroom anyway in order to a) incorporate the separate WC and b) create a new corridor so the bathroom is not a pass through from one end of the house to the other. This would still leave us with a similar size space although the current large sash window in the bathroom overlooking the garden would end up in the corridor and we'd be left with a tiny bathroom window overlooking the lane.

    We can hopefully also add a loo to the small space with basin currently on the second floor which would give one of the two bedrooms up there an en suite loo/basin.

    However, we could also split the newly reconfigured bathroom into two smaller rooms - one with bath, basin, loo and the other with shower, basin, loo - accessed off the newly created corridor.

    The resulting two rooms would each be quite small. One would not have a window, although it could have borrowed light from corridor window.

    We're not looking to add value - although increasing saleability would be good - so in these circumstances is it better to retain one 'family sized' bathroom, or have two much smaller ones? I'd be interested in other opinions please
    Last edited by phoebe1989seb; 07-10-2016 at 10:17 PM.
    Paid off mortgage early - mortgage-free since age 40 (2007)

    Over £40,000 mis-sold PPI reclaimed
Page 1
    • missbiggles1
    • By missbiggles1 7th Oct 16, 10:27 PM
    • 15,740 Posts
    • 28,695 Thanks
    missbiggles1
    • #2
    • 7th Oct 16, 10:27 PM
    • #2
    • 7th Oct 16, 10:27 PM
    Is there space to add a shower to the cloakroom?
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 7th Oct 16, 11:01 PM
    • 22,249 Posts
    • 63,082 Thanks
    Doozergirl
    • #3
    • 7th Oct 16, 11:01 PM
    • #3
    • 7th Oct 16, 11:01 PM
    More bathrooms. I'd expect two in any four bed house. Seems quite large for empty nesters but if they want that many bedrooms I don't think many people expect to share a bathroom, even with occasional guests.

    I think it's especially important if the house is rambling or split over floors.
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • Hoploz
    • By Hoploz 8th Oct 16, 5:08 AM
    • 3,047 Posts
    • 2,697 Thanks
    Hoploz
    • #4
    • 8th Oct 16, 5:08 AM
    • #4
    • 8th Oct 16, 5:08 AM
    People definitely do expect more than one bathroom these days. Even many two bedroom flats are built with ensuite to master and a main bathroom as well. My mum lives alone in one of them and unfortunately still has two bathrooms to clean!

    You're a bit higgledy piggledy but as a general rule you need a bathroom on each floor where there's a bedroom. And a wc on any other floor as well. Ideally an ensuite to the master bedroom, so two bathrooms if there is another bedroom on the same level.

    I've got an odd layout here where the master is downstairs with large ensuite, two bedrooms upstairs both have ensuites meaning my kids both have their own bathrooms. And yet we find we are having to reinstate yet another bathroom which was converted to a study by a previous owner, as the other third bedroom upstairs is left with no access to a bathroom at all - it's too awkward to expect a guest to go through the kid's bedroom to the bathroom, esp if they need the loo in the middle of the night! So we will end up with 3 upstairs bathrooms plus 4th downstairs as well as downstairs wc as well! But it's just the way it's laid out.
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 8th Oct 16, 9:33 AM
    • 22,249 Posts
    • 63,082 Thanks
    Doozergirl
    • #5
    • 8th Oct 16, 9:33 AM
    • #5
    • 8th Oct 16, 9:33 AM
    I agree, Hoploz. If it were my house, I'd be looking for a master ensuite and one bathroom per floor of bedrooms.

    I don't think I would live without an ensuite at all! First world demands.
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • brightontraveller
    • By brightontraveller 8th Oct 16, 9:59 AM
    • 1,183 Posts
    • 452 Thanks
    brightontraveller
    • #6
    • 8th Oct 16, 9:59 AM
    • #6
    • 8th Oct 16, 9:59 AM
    If your gutting the property then put pipe work in for bathroom/s but not bathroom/s Allows opportunity to add one with relative ease, is far cheaper (for you), You can tell potential buyers plumbing there they can add one if they wish or you can add it before they buy if it’s a deal breaker ?

    If you price accordingly discounting the cost of bathroom , Bonus of being cheaper than all others,Also if they believe a bathroom adds value they think they’ll increase the value of the house immediately, Personally having sold quite a few properties I’ve found new kitchens bathrooms etc rarely make the money back and your taste may not be others or add to its appeal as much as being cheaper does ?
    Last edited by brightontraveller; 08-10-2016 at 10:02 AM.
    • robatwork
    • By robatwork 8th Oct 16, 11:53 AM
    • 3,360 Posts
    • 3,567 Thanks
    robatwork
    • #7
    • 8th Oct 16, 11:53 AM
    • #7
    • 8th Oct 16, 11:53 AM
    I have never thought of an ensuite as a necessity.

    However you definitely need another bathroom, not necessarily to increase the house value but just to get possible buyers through the door.

    Anyone with a family knows how long certain family members spend in the bathroom!

    For example
    Dad - likes to play words with friends and contemplate life while on the throne
    Mum - likes to luxuriate in the bath, plus exfoliate strange areas of her body
    Daughter - make up, hair washing, hair dying, hair styling
    Son - no idea, rather not know
    • Hoploz
    • By Hoploz 8th Oct 16, 11:56 AM
    • 3,047 Posts
    • 2,697 Thanks
    Hoploz
    • #8
    • 8th Oct 16, 11:56 AM
    • #8
    • 8th Oct 16, 11:56 AM
    Son - bath/shower remain untouched, toilet like a black hole of doom, basin covered in toothpaste

    That's how my son's bathroom seems to work anyway!
    • phoebe1989seb
    • By phoebe1989seb 8th Oct 16, 2:38 PM
    • 2,924 Posts
    • 6,078 Thanks
    phoebe1989seb
    • #9
    • 8th Oct 16, 2:38 PM
    • #9
    • 8th Oct 16, 2:38 PM
    Thanks so much for taking the time to make suggestions - all your thoughts and ideas are very helpful

    Is there space to add a shower to the cloakroom?
    Originally posted by missbiggles1
    Sadly, no. It's a tiny room (4' 6 x 3' 2) with sliding door (not original) that currently has loo and small corner basin.

    The house is a bit rambling, which we like Not everyone's cup of tea though and it would definitely benefit from some rejigging as well as more 'facilities', lol!

    I said our target market was empty nesters as houses in this area tend to be out of reach, price-wise to those with young families. Neighbouring properties tend to be owned by retired professionals/those with older kids.

    Our last few houses have had three bathrooms and up to four loos, so I appreciate the need for more - it's just that being a very quirky period house (considered a cottage by some as that was what it was originally built as - and it is named "******** cottage"), I wondered if you could get away with just the one........from all your responses it seems not!

    Originally we had planned to stay here forever, so with no thoughts of resale we intended to turn one of the two top floor bedrooms into a bathroom, but that would decrease bedroom numbers to three and imho would devalue the property. However, apart from the aforementioned proposal to add a loo in the space (3' x 3') off one of these bedrooms where currently there's just a basin (and window!), there is no other conceivable way to get a bathroom - or shower room - on the top floor

    In an ideal world we would convert the current study (11' 1 x 8' 4 plus recesses and staircase) into an ensuite to the master bedroom, but this space is actually a landing in the newer end of the house and as such has the secondary staircase entering into it. I don't think partitioning it off would work - plus there is no plumbing at this end of the house.

    We actually use the designated master bedroom as an additional living room as it has great views and a balcony ideal for evening G&Ts

    If I could find a way to post up the floorplan I would but I have no link to the property details (it's not showing on RM/Zoopla for some reason) and I'm not techy enough to post up a drawing if I do one

    I do like brightontraveller's idea of putting the plumbing in place for a second bathroom without actually doing the work, btw....

    What are your thoughts please on having two bathrooms - one would actually be a shower room - of the following sizes in a four bed, 2000 sq ft house/cottage? -

    9' x 5' and 9' x 7' (the latter will have a corner taken out as there is currently an airing cupboard with boiler that we don't want to relocate) - this is what we'd get if we divided up the current bathroom.
    Last edited by phoebe1989seb; 08-10-2016 at 2:49 PM.
    Paid off mortgage early - mortgage-free since age 40 (2007)

    Over £40,000 mis-sold PPI reclaimed
    • Hoploz
    • By Hoploz 8th Oct 16, 4:05 PM
    • 3,047 Posts
    • 2,697 Thanks
    Hoploz
    Those sound fine to me. Sometimes it's better to have a roomy shower room than a cramped bathroom. My last house ensuite was 8' x 6' and made a lovely shower room with offset quadrant with integral shelving. The main family bathroom was a similar size but had a shower over the bath for the kids.
    • LeeUK
    • By LeeUK 8th Oct 16, 8:24 PM
    • 5,244 Posts
    • 2,436 Thanks
    LeeUK
    Do people !!!! more these days requiring more toilets??

    Even an average 3 bed semi will have a bathroom, en-suite, and a downstairs cloakroom.
    Lee's No More Takeaways Club No.1
    • SailorSam
    • By SailorSam 8th Oct 16, 8:36 PM
    • 21,130 Posts
    • 36,390 Thanks
    SailorSam
    I added just showers to two of the bedrooms here. Then there is a bathroom with a shower and an extra loo downstairs.
    Liverpool is one of the wonders of Britain,
    What it may grow to in time, I know not what.

    Daniel Defoe: 1725.
    • phoebe1989seb
    • By phoebe1989seb 8th Oct 16, 9:46 PM
    • 2,924 Posts
    • 6,078 Thanks
    phoebe1989seb
    Those sound fine to me. Sometimes it's better to have a roomy shower room than a cramped bathroom. My last house ensuite was 8' x 6' and made a lovely shower room with offset quadrant with integral shelving. The main family bathroom was a similar size but had a shower over the bath for the kids.
    Originally posted by Hoploz
    Thanks Hoploz

    I think it's just that we've been spoiled at previous houses where we had several large bathrooms, at least two of which were converted from good-sized double bedrooms

    Moving here to a considerably smaller house we felt lucky to still have one 13' x 8' 9 bathroom with the option to add a second by converting bedroom 4 (12' x 11'), but now our plans have changed it's a case of maximising our ability to achieve a sale!
    Paid off mortgage early - mortgage-free since age 40 (2007)

    Over £40,000 mis-sold PPI reclaimed
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 9th Oct 16, 9:08 AM
    • 22,249 Posts
    • 63,082 Thanks
    Doozergirl
    There's nothing wrong with those sizes, the average British bathroom is 8'x6', but from an aesthetic point of view, I'd make the bath fit perfectly into something unless you opt for a freestanding. Sometimes smaller is better or just spacially planned out before the walls go up is much better.

    If you can get the door in the middle, then 9' by 3' actually makes a great little shower room and might give a bit more space to the bathroom. Rooms that size are also relatively easy to tag on to other rooms as ensuites.

    I'm surprised that a 2000 square foot house that sounds a little top heavy and only has four beds can't fit a couple of ensuites in, but there's no floorplan to go on. That study does sound superfluous. I'm not sure how many empty nesters need five beds plus study. My experience of people like that is that they generally buy big for the associated downstairs space. Dressing rooms and ensuites would be high on the list.
    Last edited by Doozergirl; 09-10-2016 at 9:15 AM.
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • phoebe1989seb
    • By phoebe1989seb 9th Oct 16, 10:51 AM
    • 2,924 Posts
    • 6,078 Thanks
    phoebe1989seb
    There's nothing wrong with those sizes, the average British bathroom is 8'x6', but from an aesthetic point of view, I'd make the bath fit perfectly into something unless you opt for a freestanding. Sometimes smaller is better or just spacially planned out before the walls go up is much better.

    If you can get the door in the middle, then 9' by 3' actually makes a great little shower room and might give a bit more space to the bathroom. Rooms that size are also relatively easy to tag on to other rooms as ensuites.

    I'm surprised that a 2000 square foot house that sounds a little top heavy and only has four beds can't fit a couple of ensuites in, but there's no floorplan to go on. That study does sound superfluous. I'm not sure how many empty nesters need five beds plus study. My experience of people like that is that they generally buy big for the associated downstairs space. Dressing rooms and ensuites would be high on the list.
    Originally posted by Doozergirl
    Thanks DG

    We already started drawing up plans - DH is a designer so has access to the software and his BF owns an award-winning bathroom showroom in Hants but as we're a long way from there now it's not so easy to ask for advice - it's just me that's technically challenged, lol! Will definitely try your suggestion re: the smaller shower room though......

    When DH is back - away on business for a few days - I'll see if he'll help me get a floorplan of the house up so you can better see our strange layout. If you imagine a three-storey building (plus cellar) - but only one room deep - with a two-storey extension (also one room deep) added on the end, you should get an idea.

    The original 1850s 'cottage' had two rooms on each of three floors. Typically there was no bathroom at that point. When the property was extended in the 1920s, two new living spaces were created on the ground floor with spacious landing (study!) and master bedroom above. One of the the first floor bedrooms was converted to a bathroom, hence the size being quite good. At the same time the ground floor was extended slightly outwards into the garden to create the cloakroom, enlarge the original reception room (now our kitchen) and create a veranda.

    Several new doors and windows (Crittall - they also replaced most of the original sashes with these, although we still have a few in situ) were added to the original building too, as well as lots of typical Arts & Crafts features, some of which have sadly been lost. A succession of owners that didn't appreciate the charm of the building haven't helped, but we are in the 'rescue and restore' school of renovators so have gradually been putting that right

    Edited to add: the master bedroom is actually on a slightly different level to the study/landing. Not saying conversion to an ensuite wouldn't work - you had to step up to our previous ensuite - but there are three steps/stairs leading up to the master from the study, plus there's a huge feature chimney breast (fireplace on study side) between the two rooms that we wouldn't want to remove.....
    Last edited by phoebe1989seb; 09-10-2016 at 1:02 PM.
    Paid off mortgage early - mortgage-free since age 40 (2007)

    Over £40,000 mis-sold PPI reclaimed
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 9th Oct 16, 11:08 AM
    • 22,249 Posts
    • 63,082 Thanks
    Doozergirl
    It certainly sounds like fun. If you do want a different take on it, find that floorplan
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • Andypandyboy
    • By Andypandyboy 9th Oct 16, 11:14 AM
    • 2,293 Posts
    • 5,847 Thanks
    Andypandyboy
    Definitely two bath/shower rooms, I wouldn't want to share with guests.
    • DaftyDuck
    • By DaftyDuck 9th Oct 16, 9:44 PM
    • 3,274 Posts
    • 6,362 Thanks
    DaftyDuck
    OK, I'm going to pretty much disagree with all of the above views. I would agree, except this sounds like an exceptional, odd, and beautiful property. I've done a few of these, and haven't always improved the bathroom numbers. It's essential to have one main stunning bathroom. Absolutely essential. Cutting the current one in size is something I certainly would not do. Houses like these do attract the well-heeled, and they accept sacrifices for having such a house. But they, as owners, will not sacrifice every single bath to sitting in a restricted space, with no large window, and no space to dress.

    They won't mind if their guests do, however.

    I would not split the main bathroom. I would try to find space for small ensuite(s) if possible, and they could be small.

    I do understand the desire for multiple bathrooms. My student rental has ensuites for each bedroom, all with 1200-sized showers.

    Quirky properties attract quirky (rich) buyers, and most are willing to accept oddities like few bathrooms. Just, not their main bathroom!

    Yes, a floorplan would help...
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 10th Oct 16, 11:21 AM
    • 22,249 Posts
    • 63,082 Thanks
    Doozergirl
    I specialise in large, listed buildings for wealthy clients and there is no such thing as compromise for anything!

    I totally agree that it would be better to find ensuites from existing bedrooms but I would not say that one big bathroom trumps multiple bathrooms.
    Last edited by Doozergirl; 10-10-2016 at 11:24 AM.
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • phoebe1989seb
    • By phoebe1989seb 10th Oct 16, 11:58 AM
    • 2,924 Posts
    • 6,078 Thanks
    phoebe1989seb
    Thanks Dafty

    Yes, the house is definitely all of those things, lol!

    I confess I'm in two minds - what's new? - as I love the large bathroom we have currently, as it feels very 'large country house', and in previous houses we've restored we have always had one very special bathroom - not necessarily the main bathroom, but often the en suite - as a feature. Usually this has been supported by other - also quite nice as we have the connections, lol (just remembered another very good friend is the MD of Arte Form ) - secondary bath/shower rooms.

    For example, our last house when we bought it (an unmortgageable Georgian thatched ruin of a place) had only one really tiny bathroom serving the five bedrooms in the main, original building. (There was also an attached annex with 1980s pampas bathroom suite, but that didn't really count!) As we didn't want to mess too much with moving walls in the (non-listed) Georgian rooms, we decided - against the advice of particularly up-himself architect we originally employed - to leave the tiny bathroom as it was, but install a large shower instead of the cramped bath the PO had put in twenty years previously. This was next to (but not en suite per se) one of the guest bedrooms. The finished result was stunning, imho

    Controversially we didn't have a large 'family' bathroom as such. The master bedroom had a closed off access point into another guest bedroom (too large to have been an original dressing room plus this was never a particularly grand house, having been owned by the local saddler in Georgian times) and we opened this up, thus creating a large en suite. Once knitted out with Hans Grohe Axor Montreux, V&B plus a rather lovely Porcelanosa marble-topped vanity (bought for a song on fleabay!) the heavily beamed room looked amazing! We retained the old bedroom access door into the landing, thus it could still be separated off should future owners so desire......

    Over the next few days - when DH is back - we're going to go over our options, but atm I'm leaning towards keeping the large bathroom (reconfiguring the corridor though) and squeezing in a small en suite shower room on the top floor to service the two bedrooms up there. As there is already the 3' x 3' cubby with basin, I think stealing an extra bit of space from the adjoining bedroom is doable without compromising the building's integrity.

    It means the actual master won't be en suite, but I don't want to mess with the layout of the landing/study as this has too many original features that we value.

    TBH, I think a house of this type and character is better suited to larger, more luxurious bathrooms that you want to spend time in. I know that currently I'd much rather linger in our large, carpeted bathroom complete with 1990s Daryl, Sottini, Mira & Bette and some fetching blue mosaic tiles, than in the cramped space that was our original bathroom in the thatched house......I just couldn't wait to leave that

    Cheers again for all your suggestions, folks
    Last edited by phoebe1989seb; 10-10-2016 at 12:01 PM.
    Paid off mortgage early - mortgage-free since age 40 (2007)

    Over £40,000 mis-sold PPI reclaimed
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

4,074Posts Today

7,796Users online

Martin's Twitter