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  • FIRST POST
    • Janko179
    • By Janko179 7th Oct 16, 8:29 AM
    • 8Posts
    • 0Thanks
    Janko179
    PINsentry Calculator device from BARCLAYS
    • #1
    • 7th Oct 16, 8:29 AM
    PINsentry Calculator device from BARCLAYS 7th Oct 16 at 8:29 AM
    Hello All,

    Would anyone be so kind to help me with my Barclays' PINsentry calculator device, I would have two questions:

    Does PINsentry read both chip and magnetic stripe or only one of this / which one? I am already aware that it cannot read credit card but only debit card.

    If your answer on previous question is either "both" or "chip" then my additional one would be: What exact type of chip does it read?

    I called both online department and technical department but failed to get any worth mentioning explanation.

    The reason for asking such inquiry is: My latest ( ! ) debit card is inserted and I see on the screen "Respond, sign or identify" Then I press button IDENTIFY and I see the message ''Please wait''

    However after that, I get the message ''This card is not valid''
Page 2
    • Vortigern
    • By Vortigern 7th Oct 16, 4:44 PM
    • 2,049 Posts
    • 1,296 Thanks
    Vortigern
    ...does it mean that even if PINsentry reacts in the following two ways:

    1. Successfully recognized when card is inserted so it shows on the screen "Respond, sign or identify"

    2. Successfully reacts on pressed Identify button with showing message ''Please wait''

    then this doesn't yet guarantee that it is fully functional?
    Originally posted by Janko179
    No. Logically it tells you that it is at least partially functional.
    • Janko179
    • By Janko179 7th Oct 16, 8:30 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Janko179
    Very few people would know what sort of EEPROM is embedded in their bank cards. If you have such knowledge, many would suspect that you are trying to hack or re-program the chip.

    You need to order a new card.
    Originally posted by Vortigern
    Re-programing chip of my card would be still fine as long as I get it to work. But I have no idea how to do this. Do you think the reason could be in missing ARQC values - all of them 1, 2 and 3? But I don't know how to get and use ARQC. I never worked with it.
    • Vortigern
    • By Vortigern 7th Oct 16, 11:34 PM
    • 2,049 Posts
    • 1,296 Thanks
    Vortigern
    Re-programing chip of my card would be still fine as long as I get it to work. But I have no idea how to do this. Do you think the reason could be in missing ARQC values - all of them 1, 2 and 3? But I don't know how to get and use ARQC. I never worked with it.
    Originally posted by Janko179
    You seem to have assumed that I have some technical expertise in this field. I have no such knowledge. I don't know what ARQC is and I don't need to know.

    I know how to use a bank card with a PIN Sentry device. I know how to get a replacement if either should fail. That's all I need.
    • DCFC79
    • By DCFC79 7th Oct 16, 11:45 PM
    • 27,771 Posts
    • 17,534 Thanks
    DCFC79
    Why dont you get a replacement card and try it with the device, if it works then all good, if not then order a new PIN Sentry and hopefully it works.
    Je Suis Charlie
    • teddysmum
    • By teddysmum 8th Oct 16, 1:29 PM
    • 5,865 Posts
    • 3,461 Thanks
    teddysmum
    If the reader is several months old, it could just need a new battery. Otherwise, turning up at your bank should produce a replacement reader there and then.


    My husband and I had to go to two sessions to open accounts as the bank's system had a failure, after processing just one account. The admin person forgot to give me a reader for the account, but when I mentioned this on the next visit, she produced one from a drawer in her desk.
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 8th Oct 16, 4:42 PM
    • 15,683 Posts
    • 11,393 Thanks
    agrinnall
    If the reader is several months old, it could just need a new battery.
    Originally posted by teddysmum
    I find it hard to believe that any reader that's a few months old would need a new battery, I've had my Nationwide one since they were first issued and it's still working fine. I suppose if you used it many times every day it might run out, but I can't imagine why anyone would. I also suspect (can't be bothered to walk up the stairs to look) that they are sealed units anyway and that it's not really possible to replace the battery.
    • polymaff
    • By polymaff 8th Oct 16, 6:53 PM
    • 1,283 Posts
    • 516 Thanks
    polymaff
    This thread is one of the bizarrest I've come across. There is surely no legitimate reason for wanting to know how to hack a chipped card
    • DCFC79
    • By DCFC79 8th Oct 16, 7:06 PM
    • 27,771 Posts
    • 17,534 Thanks
    DCFC79
    I find it hard to believe that any reader that's a few months old would need a new battery, I've had my Nationwide one since they were first issued and it's still working fine. I suppose if you used it many times every day it might run out, but I can't imagine why anyone would. I also suspect (can't be bothered to walk up the stairs to look) that they are sealed units anyway and that it's not really possible to replace the battery.
    Originally posted by agrinnall
    Ive got 3 or 4 and the RBS one which was used alot needed a new battery. You can replace the batteries in the Barclays and RBS devices, cant remember about the others I have.
    Je Suis Charlie
    • polymaff
    • By polymaff 8th Oct 16, 7:33 PM
    • 1,283 Posts
    • 516 Thanks
    polymaff
    Ive got 3 or 4 and the RBS one which was used alot needed a new battery. You can replace the batteries in the Barclays and RBS devices, cant remember about the others I have.
    Originally posted by DCFC79
    If you're showered with these things, they are - at least - handy sources of cells

    Usually it is a 20mm lithium coin cell - just right for a PC! My Barclays ones keep me in LR44s - four per PINSentry. Even the awful HSBC/M&S/First Direct dongles can be snapped in half (horizontally) to release a button cell.
    • DCFC79
    • By DCFC79 8th Oct 16, 7:38 PM
    • 27,771 Posts
    • 17,534 Thanks
    DCFC79
    If you're showered with these things, they are - at least - handy sources of cells

    Usually it is a 20mm lithium coin cell - just right for a PC! My Barclays ones keep me in LR44s - four per PINSentry. Even the awful HSBC/M&S/First Direct dongles can be snapped in half (horizontally) to release a button cell.
    Originally posted by polymaff
    They are yes, they are also interchangeable so I can use Nationwide device with say my RBS card.
    Je Suis Charlie
    • mt99
    • By mt99 9th Oct 16, 8:08 AM
    • 111 Posts
    • 50 Thanks
    mt99
    probably saying the obvious but if you leave the card in the reader after using it the battery will run down.
    • polymaff
    • By polymaff 9th Oct 16, 10:26 AM
    • 1,283 Posts
    • 516 Thanks
    polymaff
    probably saying the obvious but if you leave the card in the reader after using it the battery will run down.
    Originally posted by mt99
    Most seem to shut down in that circumstance. I'd guess that that is done to save the battery.
    • bubieyehyeh
    • By bubieyehyeh 9th Oct 16, 9:25 PM
    • 313 Posts
    • 89 Thanks
    bubieyehyeh
    I've found from experience that the nationwide ones, run down quicker if you leave the card in them.
    • vacheron
    • By vacheron 10th Oct 16, 8:00 AM
    • 622 Posts
    • 516 Thanks
    vacheron
    I have 2 or 3 of these readers from different banks. Some cards work with other bank machines, others not.

    My thinking is that the operation goes as follows:
    1. Inserting card closes a microswitch inside the machine and so energises the device (best way to preserve power when the card is not inserted). A good way to test this would be to put a credit card sized bit of card in the reader and see if it powers up.
    2. The reader boots up and then presents the default options respond / identify etc
    3. Only when a selection has been made does the reader actually attempt to access the chip on the card and read the EEPROM contents. At this point the reader will confirm if the card ID presented to it matches the types of card this reader has been programmed to accept.
    4. Even if the EEPROM is read correctly, the machine could still return a generic "fail" reply if the card it is trying to read is "not on the list".

    A few years back I received an extra "card" from Barclays which I recieved when they bought ING. The only reason for this card (no embossed numbers or anything) is to allow me to log into my ING account using the Barclays Pinsentry reader.

    They also sent me a second pinsentry reader which was nice of them because they went for about £15 on eBay at the time!
    Last edited by vacheron; 10-10-2016 at 8:06 AM.
    • The rich buy assets.
    • The poor only have expenses.
    • The middle class buy liabilities they think are assets.
    Robert T. Kiyosaki
    • eddddy
    • By eddddy 10th Oct 16, 9:51 AM
    • 3,859 Posts
    • 3,491 Thanks
    eddddy
    If you actually want to solve the problem - just walk into any branch of Barclays with your debit card and pin sentry.

    Just about every staff member in the branch will have a pin sentry - they use it as a quick way of checking customers' identity.

    So it will take less than 30 seconds to establish whether your card is faulty, or whether your pin sentry is faulty.

    If your card is faulty, they won't take the card away from you - they'll just order a new card. You can use your current card until the new one arrives.
    • Janko179
    • By Janko179 10th Oct 16, 11:05 AM
    • 8 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Janko179
    I think I would need to hire two experts: one electronics expert and one chip (re)programming expert so I can make PINsentry device (either Barclays one or any other one) to work with magnetic stripe. I simply cannot find appropriate solution and no reply was helpful
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 10th Oct 16, 11:37 AM
    • 15,683 Posts
    • 11,393 Thanks
    agrinnall
    It's pretty clear that the OP doesn't want to use the obvious solutions provided that any normal customer would use, so the only real alternative is that he is indeed attempting to find a way to bypass bank security. I think we should stop responding in case anyone inadvertently says something that will help.
    • vacheron
    • By vacheron 10th Oct 16, 1:13 PM
    • 622 Posts
    • 516 Thanks
    vacheron
    I think agrinnall has probably hit the nail on the head, but personally if the OP thinks that by hiring an Electronic Engineer with EEPROM programming experience (which just so happen to be coincidentally) that they will somehow be able to take a mass produced dedicated product, probably based around a locked ASIC device, and then modify it into a custom product capable of reading non supported chip and pin devices and also magnetic stripes which the pinsentry lacks the hardware to read anyway, then I think that they should have a go.

    And if they succeed, then the banking sector deserve to pay the resultant price for their incompetence.
    Last edited by vacheron; 10-10-2016 at 1:16 PM.
    • The rich buy assets.
    • The poor only have expenses.
    • The middle class buy liabilities they think are assets.
    Robert T. Kiyosaki
    • polymaff
    • By polymaff 10th Oct 16, 2:38 PM
    • 1,283 Posts
    • 516 Thanks
    polymaff
    ... and no reply was helpful
    Originally posted by Janko179
    Intentionally so
    • Zanderman
    • By Zanderman 11th Oct 16, 8:40 AM
    • 989 Posts
    • 3,391 Thanks
    Zanderman
    I simply cannot find appropriate solution and no reply was helpful
    Originally posted by Janko179
    The most 'appropriate solution' has been suggested - get a new card reader.

    Many replies have suggested this - and so those have been helpful.

    Your reluctance to accept this advice, or even recognise it is helpful, is very odd!

    One extra piece of helpful advice - until you get a new Barclays device try a card reader from another bank (if you have one). They may work even if their design is different.
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