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  • FIRST POST
    • wanderlust23
    • By wanderlust23 6th Oct 16, 1:15 PM
    • 99Posts
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    wanderlust23
    Hogging right lane
    • #1
    • 6th Oct 16, 1:15 PM
    Hogging right lane 6th Oct 16 at 1:15 PM
    Hi all,

    I've only been driving a couple of weeks and would like some clarification. Yesterday, when travelling to work I moved into the right hand lane on a dual carriageway as I needed to take the next right. I was doing the maximum speed limit for the road and couldn't have been in the right lane for more than 10 seconds before another driver was tailgating me and flashing his headlights trying to get me to move back over. I was speaking to some friends after who said it was probably because I was "hogging" the right lane.

    If I'm doing the maximum speed limit for that road and I plan on taking the next right I fail to see what the issue is? There are also speed cameras along that very road and yet people seem to not be bothered. Personally, I don't want a fine and points on my license when I've only been driving for a matter of weeks!
    Last edited by wanderlust23; 06-10-2016 at 3:20 PM.
Page 8
    • waamo
    • By waamo 10th Oct 16, 6:02 PM
    • 794 Posts
    • 739 Thanks
    waamo
    In the first post you say he caught you in less than 10 seconds. He was apparently nowhere in sight when you moved over.

    Ok some back of the envelope calculations. He caught you in about 8 seconds. If he was nowhere in sight that's got to be at least half a mile away. Half a mile in 8 seconds is a speed of about 225mph. Even quarter of a mile is well over a ton.

    Either he was in an exotic race car or perhaps you misjudged speeds?
    This space for hire.
    • wanderlust23
    • By wanderlust23 10th Oct 16, 6:45 PM
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    wanderlust23
    Waamo, please take the stand...

    Using your mathematical expertise, could you tell us how you came to the conclusion that the defendant misjudged the speed of the plaintiff?


    Ok some back of the envelope calculations. He caught you in about 8 seconds. If he was nowhere in sight that's got to be at least half a mile away. Half a mile in 8 seconds is a speed of about 225mph. Even quarter of a mile is well over a ton.
    Originally posted by waamo
    I have no further questions your honour.
    • BeenThroughItAll
    • By BeenThroughItAll 10th Oct 16, 7:02 PM
    • 3,463 Posts
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    BeenThroughItAll
    This is very reminiscent of another recent thread.

    I don't suppose by any chance this is actually a hypothetical situation and really there was no tailgating?

    Or was there?

    Or not?

    ?
    • wanderlust23
    • By wanderlust23 10th Oct 16, 7:17 PM
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    wanderlust23
    I don't post here often as you can see by my post count so I don't know the other thread you are referring to but what if it was a hypothetical situation (it's not) but what would it change? Or is this just a new line of questioning?
    • silverwhistle
    • By silverwhistle 10th Oct 16, 8:13 PM
    • 1,308 Posts
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    silverwhistle
    My own thoughts, with only reading about the first page is 'spare me from experienced drivers' who try and put down others. I didn't learn until I was 28 and passed first time after 6 hours of formal lessons, but I was quite able to identify bad driving, even before getting behind a wheel. So spare us the condescension, some of you.

    Coming down into Portsmouth on the M27 there's a point where you need to be in the middle lane if you want to continue East in the Brighton direction, and there's always a decision to be made as to when to get into that lane based on the traffic. As it's best to be early making manoeuvres rather than late you can find yourself with traffic coming up on your inside which wants to go to Portsmouth. I sometimes flick my indicators just to confirm to them they can pass on my inside. To use nautical parlance, you are the stand on vessel, and it is for them to avoid you rather than dipping back into the nearside only for 30 seconds later pull out again.
    • Wig
    • By Wig 10th Oct 16, 8:15 PM
    • 13,423 Posts
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    Wig
    That's bad practice.

    Having moved to the right hand lane, people behind have no way of knowing if the continued signal means that you're turning or that you've forgotten to cancel your indicator..
    Originally posted by Joe Horner
    I disagree with you,

    There would be a road sign showing the right turn is up ahead, there might even be a warning triangle sign showing the turning ahead.

    Anyone behind a car in the right hand lane who is indicating right whilst approaching a right hand turning is going to assume that car is intending to turn right at the turning. There is the possibility of they have forgotten to cancel, but the overwhelming assumption will be that of an intention to turn right.

    In my reading of the thread so far - (up to post #35):
    The OP has said they were not indicating, and at the point that they did indicate, the car passed by on the OP LHS. Which tells us there was no one to the OPs left (empty lane), which helps to explain why the driver behind was so annoyed. and it tells us that the driver behind once notified of the intention to turn was then able to go on the left as many of us would also have done.

    What the OP has not said is what distance before the turning right, did they migrate to the right hand lane? and at what distance did they start to indicate right? We already know they were in the lane for at least 10 seconds before the intention to turn right was given.

    In my opinion, The OP should take care not to move right until an appropriate distance has been reached before the turning, and before moving right, to check your mirrors (and shoulder) to see if anyone is fast approaching in the right hand lane, and if so, then to delay the move to the right accordingly. And once in the right hand lane, as soon as they see any vehicle coming behind them, then to indicate right (if not already doing so) regardless of the distance to the junction. (because you won't have moved right until it is appropriate to do so, so an "early" indication right is not really going to be "early" as such, otherwise if it is too early to indicate right, you know you have migrated to the right lane too early, so to speak..

    HTH
    Last edited by Wig; 10-10-2016 at 8:18 PM.
    • wanderlust23
    • By wanderlust23 10th Oct 16, 8:55 PM
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    wanderlust23
    I disagree with you,

    There would be a road sign showing the right turn is up ahead, there might even be a warning triangle sign showing the turning ahead.

    Anyone behind a car in the right hand lane who is indicating right whilst approaching a right hand turning is going to assume that car is intending to turn right at the turning. There is the possibility of they have forgotten to cancel, but the overwhelming assumption will be that of an intention to turn right.

    In my reading of the thread so far - (up to post #35):
    The OP has said they were not indicating, and at the point that they did indicate, the car passed by on the OP LHS. Which tells us there was no one to the OPs left (empty lane), which helps to explain why the driver behind was so annoyed. and it tells us that the driver behind once notified of the intention to turn was then able to go on the left as many of us would also have done.

    What the OP has not said is what distance before the turning right, did they migrate to the right hand lane? and at what distance did they start to indicate right? We already know they were in the lane for at least 10 seconds before the intention to turn right was given.

    In my opinion, The OP should take care not to move right until an appropriate distance has been reached before the turning, and before moving right, to check your mirrors (and shoulder) to see if anyone is fast approaching in the right hand lane, and if so, then to delay the move to the right accordingly. And once in the right hand lane, as soon as they see any vehicle coming behind them, then to indicate right (if not already doing so) regardless of the distance to the junction. (because you won't have moved right until it is appropriate to do so, so an "early" indication right is not really going to be "early" as such, otherwise if it is too early to indicate right, you know you have migrated to the right lane too early, so to speak..

    HTH
    Originally posted by Wig
    Due to not reading the full thread (can't blame you) this is just going round in circles. The same points are being made and I'm not going to repeatedly respond to them. I will however respond to the point you made about the left lane being empty. It's not the left lane that's the issue, it's rather the difficulty in moving into the right lane when people treat it like a race track. The left lane could be empty for miles but it's not much use when you need to move into the right lane so you can take a right turn but are being impeded by the Lewis Hamiltons on the road.
    • Iceweasel
    • By Iceweasel 10th Oct 16, 9:14 PM
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    Iceweasel
    It's not the left lane that's the issue
    Originally posted by wanderlust23
    Jesus wept.

    There's none so blind as those who will not see.

    It's the left lane that this is all about.

    One doesn't drive in the right hand lane when the left hand lane is free - unless you are indicating right for the right turn ahead.

    If you had been indicating right then the impatient driver would more than likely have gone past on your left with no problem - no flashing - no tail-gating - everyone happy.

    But not you though - I get the distinct impression you still feel that you didn't need to indicate as:

    If I'm doing the maximum speed limit for that road and I plan on taking the next right I fail to see what the issue is?
    • Wig
    • By Wig 10th Oct 16, 9:30 PM
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    Wig
    I agree with Iceweasel's post above,

    If the left lane is comfortably empty, then stay in it until it is appropriate to move to the right lane. This will be dependant on distance to the turning and traffic density in the right lane,
    heavy density, unlikely to be moving very fast, but not difficult to indicate right and after a few seconds of indicating move right, possibly accelerating as you do so, then joining with the flow of traffic and indicate right for the turning.

    light density, likely to be the odd zoom-zoomer but easy enough to move over and indicate right at an appropriate distance.
    • wanderlust23
    • By wanderlust23 10th Oct 16, 9:31 PM
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    wanderlust23
    Jesus wept.

    There's none so blind as those who will not see.

    It's the left lane that this is all about.

    One doesn't drive in the right hand lane when the left hand lane is free - unless you are indicating right for the right turn ahead.

    If you had been indicating right then the impatient driver would more than likely have gone past on your left with no problem - no flashing - no tail-gating - everyone happy.

    But not you though - I get the distinct impression you still feel that you didn't need to indicate as:

    If I'm doing the maximum speed limit for that road and I plan on taking the next right I fail to see what the issue is?
    Originally posted by Iceweasel
    How ridiculous. So are you saying anyone using the right hand lane to turn right must have their indicator on at all times? How many people do you see doing that? I would like to think most people enter the right lane at the time that is most appropriate to move over so as not to cause an accident and then indicate when it is most appropriate to do so (usually not too much of a gap between the two if judged right) The two don't always happen 2 seconds apart. If you say that's how it happens for you every time you're in that situation you are lying.
    • wanderlust23
    • By wanderlust23 10th Oct 16, 9:34 PM
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    wanderlust23
    I agree with Iceweasel's post above,

    If the left lane is comfortably empty, then stay in it until it is appropriate to move to the right lane. This will be dependant on distance to the turning and traffic density in the right lane,
    heavy density, unlikely to be moving very fast, but not difficult to indicate right and after a few seconds of indicating move right, possibly accelerating as you do so, then joining with the flow of traffic and indicate right for the turning.

    light density, likely to be the odd zoom-zoomer but easy enough to move over and indicate right at an appropriate distance.
    Originally posted by Wig
    Isn't that what I've said all along? People need to stop jumping on the bandwagon and making assumptions.
    • Wig
    • By Wig 10th Oct 16, 9:46 PM
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    Wig
    The reason you found yourself in trouble, appears to be the "light density right hand lane scenario, with the odd zoom zoomer" and you either moved across too early, OR you should have been indicating all along, so that those who come from behind know your intentions.

    Unless you have some dashcam footage for us, only you will know, and only experience will make you more confident and more able to judge these things for yourself.
    • Iceweasel
    • By Iceweasel 10th Oct 16, 9:59 PM
    • 4,097 Posts
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    Iceweasel
    Isn't that what I've said all along? People need to stop jumping on the bandwagon and making assumptions.
    Originally posted by wanderlust23
    No that is NOT what you said.

    You said that if you were travelling at the speed limit you failed to see any issue with driving in the right hand lane.

    You still haven't told us how far it was to the right turn from when you moved into the right hand lane.

    This thread could run and run as you don't seem to be accepting the world as it is - some people will exceed the limit -you must allow for that in your decisions of when to change lanes and when to signal.

    If I have to turn right on a DC I indicate (three flashes) to change lanes then a split second later indicator goes on fully to show that I'm going to turn right soon.

    That's how it is and I am NOT lying.
    • wanderlust23
    • By wanderlust23 10th Oct 16, 10:10 PM
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    wanderlust23
    No that is NOT what you said.

    You said that if you were travelling at the speed limit you failed to see any issue with driving in the right hand lane.

    You still haven't told us how far it was to the right turn from when you moved into the right hand lane.

    This thread could run and run as you don't seem to be accepting the world as it is - some people will exceed the limit -you must allow for that in your decisions of when to change lanes and when to signal.

    If I have to turn right on a DC I indicate (three flashes) to change lanes then a split second later indicator goes on fully to show that I'm going to turn right soon.

    That's how it is and I am NOT lying.
    Originally posted by Iceweasel
    That's only part of what I said in this thread though isn't it? But I suppose it's better for the point you want to make to take one sentence and run with that.


    If I have to turn right on a DC I indicate (three flashes) to change lanes then a split second later indicator goes on fully to show that I'm going to turn right soon.

    That's how it is and I am NOT lying.
    Originally posted by Iceweasel
    In an ideal world, that would be the case every time someone wants to move over to the right lane and turn right. Unfortunatley, due to traffic conditions and other considerations it doesn't always happen like that so yes, you would be lying if you said that's how it works every time.
    • Richard53
    • By Richard53 10th Oct 16, 11:11 PM
    • 2,218 Posts
    • 1,916 Thanks
    Richard53
    No, it's OK - I got that - likewise my post wasn't meant to suggest you weren't!
    Originally posted by BeenThroughItAll
    Hehe, honours even, then. After you, Claude. No, after you, Cyril, etc etc.
    If all misfortunes were laid in one common heap whence everyone must take an equal portion, most people would be contented to take their own and depart. (Attrib. to Socrates)
    • Mercdriver
    • By Mercdriver 11th Oct 16, 1:25 AM
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    Mercdriver
    Isn't that what I've said all along? People need to stop jumping on the bandwagon and making assumptions.
    Originally posted by wanderlust23
    If it was too early to indicate for the turning, surely it was too early to move into the right lane, and this car appeared like magic out of nowhere.

    Looks to me like you missed some of your observations and took the right hand lane too early. That car may well have been in your blind spot and unwittingly you could have pulled in to his path.

    You don't have to pretend you are a perfect driver as none such exists. I'm not questioning whether you have good judgement, its just that we don't get it right all the time. You learn nothing by denying errors.
    • Mercdriver
    • By Mercdriver 12th Oct 16, 1:48 AM
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    Mercdriver
    I find it strange that people keep asking me to state how far away from the turn I was despite me explaining why I won't be bothering. I've already been deemed the guilty party. What's the point? A lot of the posts on here center around the fact I'm a new driver and so inexperienced therefore I MUST be the one in the wrong. That is why I cannot agree with some of you. Just because I am inexperienced doesn't mean I have poor judgement.
    Originally posted by wanderlust23

    I think that I generally have good judgement. Does that mean I always have good judgement, or do I sometimes exercise poor judgement, sometimes as a result of inexperience or other factors? If someone notices my poor judgement and criticises me for it, then yes, I'm likely to be initially defensive, but I'm likely to learn more if I accept that whilst I generally have good judgement, there are times when I don't exercise that good judgement. It's all part of being human.

    It's called trial and error. I worked that out on a very early drive after passing my test. We have a very steep drive with a fairly narrow opening. I turned right to enter the drive and was too conscious of the car waiting behind me. Used too much gas and hit the wall. No real damage done to wall or car. My father in law and my wife's uncle were in the car. To say I was embarrassed is an understatement. I haven't come close to repeating that experience since. I felt like a clown, but couldn't deny I was in the wrong. So learned and adapted. It's all part of the process.
    • Head The Ball
    • By Head The Ball 12th Oct 16, 11:56 AM
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    Head The Ball
    I fear for the OP.

    If he is as unwilling to improve his driving and learn from experience on the road as he appears unwilling to take on board and learn from the advice and comments in this thread, then he has an uncertain future as a driver.
    When I was growing up plastic surgery was a bit of a taboo subject. These days if you mention botox no one raises an eyebrow.
    • Biggles
    • By Biggles 12th Oct 16, 12:38 PM
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    Biggles
    If he is as unwilling to improve his driving and learn from experience on the road as he appears unwilling to take on board and learn from the advice and comments in this thread, then he has an uncertain future as a driver.
    Originally posted by Head The Ball
    I actually think his future as a driver is fairly predictable; and it won't go well.
    • wanderlust23
    • By wanderlust23 12th Oct 16, 3:29 PM
    • 99 Posts
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    wanderlust23
    You really are a condescending bunch aren't you? Perhaps you should all jump off your high horses and take a look at your own attitude to the road and other drivers.
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