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  • FIRST POST
    • wanderlust23
    • By wanderlust23 6th Oct 16, 1:15 PM
    • 100Posts
    • 599Thanks
    wanderlust23
    Hogging right lane
    • #1
    • 6th Oct 16, 1:15 PM
    Hogging right lane 6th Oct 16 at 1:15 PM
    Hi all,

    I've only been driving a couple of weeks and would like some clarification. Yesterday, when travelling to work I moved into the right hand lane on a dual carriageway as I needed to take the next right. I was doing the maximum speed limit for the road and couldn't have been in the right lane for more than 10 seconds before another driver was tailgating me and flashing his headlights trying to get me to move back over. I was speaking to some friends after who said it was probably because I was "hogging" the right lane.

    If I'm doing the maximum speed limit for that road and I plan on taking the next right I fail to see what the issue is? There are also speed cameras along that very road and yet people seem to not be bothered. Personally, I don't want a fine and points on my license when I've only been driving for a matter of weeks!
    Last edited by wanderlust23; 06-10-2016 at 3:20 PM.
Page 7
    • Mercdriver
    • By Mercdriver 10th Oct 16, 2:12 AM
    • 597 Posts
    • 363 Thanks
    Mercdriver
    Sorry, I wasn't aware that being a driver that respects the rules of the road means that I am an over confident driver. I will make sure I avoid doing that in the future.

    Surprisingly (given the amount of people supporting the other driver) I've never seen a tombstone that says...

    "Here lies a much loved speeder, tailgater and headlight flasher."



    Exactly. There wouldn't be much point in explaining exactly where I moved over because people will always find fault. I've already been found the guilty party by some. Someone actually asked me to post a link to the exact location on google maps...I mean c'mon!


    I bought a dashcam a few days before I made this thread. Videos of my impecable driving coming to a screen near you soon
    Originally posted by wanderlust23
    By all means be a know-it-all driver. Lack of experience will catch you out. Hopefully it won't affect anyone else.

    For the umpteenth time, how far (roughly) form the junction did you pull into the right lane?
    • Joe Horner
    • By Joe Horner 10th Oct 16, 7:24 AM
    • 3,661 Posts
    • 3,031 Thanks
    Joe Horner
    Come on now, where where where did I state that tailgating was justified in any situation?

    Hint: I didn't.
    Originally posted by Mercdriver
    You didn't and I didn't say that you did, but there have been more than enough "what do you expect" type comments on here. That's a wrong-thinking excuse for the tailgaters.
    • BeenThroughItAll
    • By BeenThroughItAll 10th Oct 16, 8:30 AM
    • 3,463 Posts
    • 2,773 Thanks
    BeenThroughItAll
    Yes, I was supporting what you said. Sorry if it came across otherwise.
    Originally posted by Richard53


    No, it's OK - I got that - likewise my post wasn't meant to suggest you weren't!
    • NBLondon
    • By NBLondon 10th Oct 16, 9:30 AM
    • 1,090 Posts
    • 6,582 Thanks
    NBLondon
    I simply moved across at a time that I believed to be most safe and appropriate based on traffic conditions and proximity to my turn (which was a cut out for those who were wondering).
    by wanderlust2
    The tone of this statement and the fact that you have not given an estimate for the time or distance (when asked more than once) may be making you seem arrogant to some readers - hence the "policing" comments. The fact that you admit to being a relatively inexperienced driver may be making some people assume that you moved early.

    That doesn't excuse the tailgater - but it reminds people of other inconsiderate driving that they have seen in the past.

    Here's a different example I saw yesterday afternoon...

    South bound on the A12 coming from Suffolk towards Colchester. Two-lane NSL dual carriageway and I'm doing 70 in Lane 1 on cruise control. Lane 2 has people overtaking me at 80+. At a junction, the signs tell me that the joining slip road will become an additional Lane 1 so I can continue in the new Lane 2. A beige Seat Mii comes down the slip road at 56-ish and immediately swings in front of me and doesn't accelerate. I flick the cruise control off, find myself still over-running them and end up slipping into Lane 1 (which is completely empty) to go around. (Yes - I c(sh)ould have matched speeds and waited for a gap in Lane 3.) At the next junction, that Lane 1 becomes an exit slip so I move back to Lane 2 to continue on the A12. Checking the mirrors before that lane change - I can see the beige Seat still poddling along behind.

    Was that a case of moving over too early? I'm not familiar with the road, so I didn't know how far to the next junction - but there was time for me to be in an empty Lane 1, accelerate back from 60 to 70 and be there for at least 2 minutes - so maybe 2.5 miles? Or just a blinkered member of the Middle Lane Owners Club?
    Last edited by NBLondon; 10-10-2016 at 9:31 AM. Reason: Remove blanks
    One day I'll think of something witty - Apparently I have!
    • Iceweasel
    • By Iceweasel 10th Oct 16, 9:32 AM
    • 4,097 Posts
    • 2,970 Thanks
    Iceweasel
    By all means be a know-it-all driver. Lack of experience will catch you out. Hopefully it won't affect anyone else.

    For the umpteenth time, how far (roughly) form the junction did you pull into the right lane?
    Originally posted by Mercdriver
    They will be very reluctant to answer that as because he/she was travelling at the legal limit for that road they have decided that no-one is allowed to pass him - either to the left or the right.

    It's an attempt (unconsciously perhaps) to police the roads by preventing speeding - but they refuse to see that.

    I don't approve of tail-gating or multi-flashing, but that is what he/she is going to get loads more of with the attitude that they continue to display.

    It took a while to drag it out that they didn't signal right in good time.

    If I was to come upon such a driver I would certainly flash lights too, to make them aware of my presence. I would not be tailgating them, but without a signal showing an intention to turn right I would be very reluctant to pass on the left.

    This person needs more experience - it's as simple as that - but they think th at they already have sufficient to conclude that they were justified in doing what they did.

    In my opinion they could have behaved differently - not caused frustration - and therefore have been much safer.

    In one post he/she is so confident and all-knowing that they said that even if they had been signalling the right turn they suspected that the following driver would have flashed and tailgated them anyway.

    I don't accept that - I feel that any impatient driver would simply have gone past on the left if they saw a vehicle in front indicating right.
    • bartelbe
    • By bartelbe 10th Oct 16, 10:50 AM
    • 352 Posts
    • 251 Thanks
    bartelbe
    This external debate, not likely to get much sense. It is irritating when someone sits in the right lane doing 40mph in a NSL. However even that doesn't justify dangerous tailgating.

    The problem is there is a large minority of drivers who think the road belongs to them and them alone. Who think all other drivers should get out of their way. Who believe they are justified in dangerously tailgating another car and potentially causing a fatal pile up on a dual carriageway.
    • wanderlust23
    • By wanderlust23 10th Oct 16, 1:04 PM
    • 100 Posts
    • 599 Thanks
    wanderlust23
    They will be very reluctant to answer that as because he/she was travelling at the legal limit for that road they have decided that no-one is allowed to pass him - either to the left or the right.

    It's an attempt (unconsciously perhaps) to police the roads by preventing speeding - but they refuse to see that.

    I don't approve of tail-gating or multi-flashing, but that is what he/she is going to get loads more of with the attitude that they continue to display.

    It took a while to drag it out that they didn't signal right in good time.

    If I was to come upon such a driver I would certainly flash lights too, to make them aware of my presence. I would not be tailgating them, but without a signal showing an intention to turn right I would be very reluctant to pass on the left.

    This person needs more experience - it's as simple as that - but they think th at they already have sufficient to conclude that they were justified in doing what they did.

    In my opinion they could have behaved differently - not caused frustration - and therefore have been much safer.

    In one post he/she is so confident and all-knowing that they said that even if they had been signalling the right turn they suspected that the following driver would have flashed and tailgated them anyway.

    I don't accept that - I feel that any impatient driver would simply have gone past on the left if they saw a vehicle in front indicating right.
    Originally posted by Iceweasel
    Your honor,

    To count one, "Not allowing drivers to pass either to the left or the right." I plead NOT GUILTY

    The driver was free to pass me on the left (which he did).

    To count two, "Attempting to police the roads by preventing speeding" I plead NOT GUILTY

    As I've said about 100 times now, whether he speeds or not is not my business. My issue is the tailgating and flashing of headlights in an attempt to bully me into moving back over to the left.

    To count three, "Not signalling right in good time" I plead NOT GUILTY.

    I believe I signalled in good time, unfortunately the driver behind had already undertaken me and was probably at his destination by the time it took to put the signal on (and no, not because I was driving slow but rather because he was driving fast ).

    To count four, "Being so confident and all-knowing" I plead (you guessed it!) NOT GUILTY.

    If I was so confident and all-knowing I wouldn't have posted on this forum now would have I?

    I also object to the line of questioning about the distance to my turning. I could tell you in yards but that doesn't give an indication of traffic conditions at time does it? Would you agree that the "right" time to move across encompasses more than just the distance from the turning?
    • Iceweasel
    • By Iceweasel 10th Oct 16, 2:01 PM
    • 4,097 Posts
    • 2,970 Thanks
    Iceweasel
    Good luck - you'll need it.
    • JP08
    • By JP08 10th Oct 16, 2:05 PM
    • 661 Posts
    • 676 Thanks
    JP08
    I also object to the line of questioning about the distance to my turning. I could tell you in yards but that doesn't give an indication of traffic conditions at time does it? Would you agree that the "right" time to move across encompasses more than just the distance from the turning?
    Originally posted by wanderlust23
    Weeelllll ... you could answer both the questions you yourself have posited. Ie - how far was it and what were the traffic conditions at the time ? Just a thought ...

    Your point about traffic conditions is valid, the harder it is to get into that lane the earlier you might decide to go. But experience will have an effect on this too.

    I've been known to pull over into the right hand lane a few hundred metres after exiting the A428 junction approaching Black Cat roundabout SB on the A1 (60mph speed restriction) wanting to go right on the Bedford road if the traffic is particularly heavy. That's technically over a mile early but in that particular location if you don't get over when you can, there's a pretty good chance of either sitting with your indicator on with an annoyed queue of traffic behind you at the roundabout waiting for someone to let you over, or going via Biggleswade out of sheer embarrassment.

    But somehow (because of the speed of the guy in the RH land - nobody manages that in the 60 approach at Black Cat in heavy traffic) I don't think you were that heavy a traffic situation ...
    • Car 54
    • By Car 54 10th Oct 16, 2:32 PM
    • 1,403 Posts
    • 869 Thanks
    Car 54

    To count four, "Being so confident and all-knowing" I plead (you guessed it!) NOT GUILTY.

    If I was so confident and all-knowing I wouldn't have posted on this forum now would have I?
    Originally posted by wanderlust23
    In your OP you asked "If I'm doing the maximum speed limit for that road and I plan on taking the next right I fail to see what the issue is".

    A number of people have explained what the issue is, only for you to disagree with them.

    That seems more indicative of "confident and all-knowing" than of a willingness to learn and improve.

    So GUILTY.
    • facade
    • By facade 10th Oct 16, 2:43 PM
    • 2,192 Posts
    • 1,146 Thanks
    facade

    I believe I signalled in good time, unfortunately the driver behind had already undertaken me and was probably at his destination by the time it took to put the signal on (and no, not because I was driving slow but rather because he was driving fast ).

    Would you agree that the "right" time to move across encompasses more than just the distance from the turning?
    Originally posted by wanderlust23
    The "right time to move" is likely after the car approaching in the right hand lane at 120 has gone past you
    I want to go back to The Olden Days, when every single thing that I can think of was better.....

    (except air quality and Medical Science )
    • wanderlust23
    • By wanderlust23 10th Oct 16, 3:12 PM
    • 100 Posts
    • 599 Thanks
    wanderlust23
    In your OP you asked "If I'm doing the maximum speed limit for that road and I plan on taking the next right I fail to see what the issue is".

    A number of people have explained what the issue is, only for you to disagree with them.

    That seems more indicative of "confident and all-knowing" than of a willingness to learn and improve.

    So GUILTY.
    Originally posted by Car 54
    Disagreeing with an opinion doesn't mean I am confident and all knowing. What's wrong with a bit of debate? Seems to have kept everyone entertained

    The "right time to move" is likely after the car approaching in the right hand lane at 120 has gone past you
    Originally posted by facade
    Fair point but if I waited for every car in the right lane doing 120 to pass I might be waiting a while. Having said that, the road was clear when I moved over but obviously it didn't take Lewis Hamilton very long to catch me up.
    • ManuelG
    • By ManuelG 10th Oct 16, 3:21 PM
    • 467 Posts
    • 585 Thanks
    ManuelG
    Hell, everyone else has had their view

    In general terms, I still remember when I was learning to drive, and inconsiderate drivers who'd drive too close, harass, and make a nuisance. All that'd happen is I'd panic, stall, and hold them up.

    But that's karma What it is also is a lesson that harassing others doesn't gain anything.

    Nor, however, does trying to police the roads. I do remember when *I* was inexperienced, in slow moving traffic seeing someone barelling along the middle lane, undertaking everyone waiting patiently to overtake in the outer (in wet conditions, and clearly the head of the queue was overtaking the 50mph car at 52mph!).

    So... partly to try and get out of his way, partly because a 'how dare he do that' I moved to the middle lane to get out of the outer lane. All that happened is he appeared on my tailgate far faster than I'd anticipated.

    No accident but... then we were both in the 50mph overtaking hell next to each other, allowing plenty of time to swear profusely through the windows at one another

    Who did that help? Not me... I nearly got rammed up the behind. Not him... he was in the wrong.

    Had we crashed... who would have gained?

    So even though I followed the rules of the road (moved out of the outside lane, allowed others to overtake) in hindsight, whatever he did wrong, an accident would have been my responsibility.

    So... never again.

    The OP can decide quite rightly the following car was out of order. The OP may not have had any chance to avoid the situation but, hopefully, the OP at least questions if they could have done - not out of a feeling of 'right' or 'wrong', but out of a sense of self preservation and low blood pressure going forward.
    • wanderlust23
    • By wanderlust23 10th Oct 16, 3:22 PM
    • 100 Posts
    • 599 Thanks
    wanderlust23
    Weeelllll ... you could answer both the questions you yourself have posited. Ie - how far was it and what were the traffic conditions at the time ? Just a thought ...

    Your point about traffic conditions is valid, the harder it is to get into that lane the earlier you might decide to go. But experience will have an effect on this too.

    I've been known to pull over into the right hand lane a few hundred metres after exiting the A428 junction approaching Black Cat roundabout SB on the A1 (60mph speed restriction) wanting to go right on the Bedford road if the traffic is particularly heavy. That's technically over a mile early but in that particular location if you don't get over when you can, there's a pretty good chance of either sitting with your indicator on with an annoyed queue of traffic behind you at the roundabout waiting for someone to let you over, or going via Biggleswade out of sheer embarrassment.

    But somehow (because of the speed of the guy in the RH land - nobody manages that in the 60 approach at Black Cat in heavy traffic) I don't think you were that heavy a traffic situation ...
    Originally posted by JP08
    Sorry, I missed your post. I could however we both know that would be pointless. People here have already decided I'm in the wrong.
    • wanderlust23
    • By wanderlust23 10th Oct 16, 3:35 PM
    • 100 Posts
    • 599 Thanks
    wanderlust23
    Hell, everyone else has had their view

    In general terms, I still remember when I was learning to drive, and inconsiderate drivers who'd drive too close, harass, and make a nuisance. All that'd happen is I'd panic, stall, and hold them up.

    But that's karma What it is also is a lesson that harassing others doesn't gain anything.

    Nor, however, does trying to police the roads. I do remember when *I* was inexperienced, in slow moving traffic seeing someone barelling along the middle lane, undertaking everyone waiting patiently to overtake in the outer (in wet conditions, and clearly the head of the queue was overtaking the 50mph car at 52mph!).

    So... partly to try and get out of his way, partly because a 'how dare he do that' I moved to the middle lane to get out of the outer lane. All that happened is he appeared on my tailgate far faster than I'd anticipated.

    No accident but... then we were both in the 50mph overtaking hell next to each other, allowing plenty of time to swear profusely through the windows at one another

    Who did that help? Not me... I nearly got rammed up the behind. Not him... he was in the wrong.

    Had we crashed... who would have gained?

    So even though I followed the rules of the road (moved out of the outside lane, allowed others to overtake) in hindsight, whatever he did wrong, an accident would have been my responsibility.

    So... never again.

    The OP can decide quite rightly the following car was out of order. The OP may not have had any chance to avoid the situation but, hopefully, the OP at least questions if they could have done - not out of a feeling of 'right' or 'wrong', but out of a sense of self preservation and low blood pressure going forward.
    Originally posted by ManuelG
    Hence why I spoke to friends and created this thread. Unfortunately, many posters here think I should agree with every piece of advice they give. I think mentioning the fact I'm a new driver was a mistake as a lot of assumptions have been made because of it!
    • facade
    • By facade 10th Oct 16, 3:46 PM
    • 2,192 Posts
    • 1,146 Thanks
    facade
    Drive how you want, everybody else does.

    I've been driving many years, and I'm a quite appalling driver. I might well move over when it suits me, with total contempt for everyone else (I expect nothing less from them after all) but when I get flashed from behind, with tailgating & gestures in the mirror, I know exactly what I have done to cause it.
    I want to go back to The Olden Days, when every single thing that I can think of was better.....

    (except air quality and Medical Science )
    • Mercdriver
    • By Mercdriver 10th Oct 16, 5:31 PM
    • 597 Posts
    • 363 Thanks
    Mercdriver
    The tone of this statement and the fact that you have not given an estimate for the time or distance (when asked more than once) may be making you seem arrogant to some readers - hence the "policing" comments. The fact that you admit to being a relatively inexperienced driver may be making some people assume that you moved early.

    That doesn't excuse the tailgater - but it reminds people of other inconsiderate driving that they have seen in the past.

    Here's a different example I saw yesterday afternoon...

    South bound on the A12 coming from Suffolk towards Colchester. Two-lane NSL dual carriageway and I'm doing 70 in Lane 1 on cruise control. Lane 2 has people overtaking me at 80+. At a junction, the signs tell me that the joining slip road will become an additional Lane 1 so I can continue in the new Lane 2. A beige Seat Mii comes down the slip road at 56-ish and immediately swings in front of me and doesn't accelerate. I flick the cruise control off, find myself still over-running them and end up slipping into Lane 1 (which is completely empty) to go around. (Yes - I c(sh)ould have matched speeds and waited for a gap in Lane 3.) At the next junction, that Lane 1 becomes an exit slip so I move back to Lane 2 to continue on the A12. Checking the mirrors before that lane change - I can see the beige Seat still poddling along behind.

    Was that a case of moving over too early? I'm not familiar with the road, so I didn't know how far to the next junction - but there was time for me to be in an empty Lane 1, accelerate back from 60 to 70 and be there for at least 2 minutes - so maybe 2.5 miles? Or just a blinkered member of the Middle Lane Owners Club?
    Originally posted by NBLondon
    I think that driver is a regular on that route and has got into the very dangerous habit of driving by habit as if the road conditions are the same every time they go down that road. One day they will meet something they don't expect.

    Although I have only been driving just over 3 years I have done over 70,000 miles in that time, so have seen plenty of habitual driving. People pull out, because there isn't normally something there, and others around them have to take evasive action. A blast of the horn to let them know you are there (so a correct use of it) and they look bemused, like you shouldn't be there at all.

    I swear some drivers are just zombies.
    • Mercdriver
    • By Mercdriver 10th Oct 16, 5:41 PM
    • 597 Posts
    • 363 Thanks
    Mercdriver
    Your honor,

    To count one, "Not allowing drivers to pass either to the left or the right." I plead NOT GUILTY

    The driver was free to pass me on the left (which he did).

    To count two, "Attempting to police the roads by preventing speeding" I plead NOT GUILTY

    As I've said about 100 times now, whether he speeds or not is not my business. My issue is the tailgating and flashing of headlights in an attempt to bully me into moving back over to the left.

    To count three, "Not signalling right in good time" I plead NOT GUILTY.

    I believe I signalled in good time, unfortunately the driver behind had already undertaken me and was probably at his destination by the time it took to put the signal on (and no, not because I was driving slow but rather because he was driving fast ).

    To count four, "Being so confident and all-knowing" I plead (you guessed it!) NOT GUILTY.

    If I was so confident and all-knowing I wouldn't have posted on this forum now would have I?

    I also object to the line of questioning about the distance to my turning. I could tell you in yards but that doesn't give an indication of traffic conditions at time does it? Would you agree that the "right" time to move across encompasses more than just the distance from the turning?
    Originally posted by wanderlust23
    Well to be honest, you haven't taken on any advice that you don't agree with so you haven't learned anything. Why not tell us how far away from the junction you moved across? Yes it will spoil your rant if it turns out that you were premature, but safety is more important than a bit of hurt pride.

    And yes, in my three and a bit years of driving, there have indeed ben times when inexperience has caught me out, and yes I have been overcautious in getting to the right lane too early and then tried to convince myself that it was the right thing to do.

    The worst thing you can do as a driver is to overestimate your ability. The way you have met objections here suggests that is what you are doing. The fact that you won't say how far away from the junction you moved across suggests you aren't prepared to accept you have weaknesses. Pride comes before a fall, remember that, and in a car that fall has serious repercussions. It's not about being fault free - no driver is that, and yes as a new driver you will make mistakes: I've made quite a few. But the advantage in accepting an error is made is that you get to lean from it, and that saves an awful number of people grief.
    • Joe Horner
    • By Joe Horner 10th Oct 16, 5:48 PM
    • 3,661 Posts
    • 3,031 Thanks
    Joe Horner
    [...] The fact that you won't say how far away from the junction you moved across suggests you aren't prepared to accept you have weaknesses. [...]
    Originally posted by Mercdriver
    No it doesn't, it just suggests he's not willing to play by witch-hunt rules of false-logic evidence. Which is a good thing and would be jolly nice if more of society did the same.
    • wanderlust23
    • By wanderlust23 10th Oct 16, 5:49 PM
    • 100 Posts
    • 599 Thanks
    wanderlust23
    I find it strange that people keep asking me to state how far away from the turn I was despite me explaining why I won't be bothering. I've already been deemed the guilty party. What's the point? A lot of the posts on here center around the fact I'm a new driver and so inexperienced therefore I MUST be the one in the wrong. That is why I cannot agree with some of you. Just because I am inexperienced doesn't mean I have poor judgement.
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