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  • FIRST POST
    • applepicker
    • By applepicker 6th Oct 16, 7:43 AM
    • 113Posts
    • 7Thanks
    applepicker
    Issues at work
    • #1
    • 6th Oct 16, 7:43 AM
    Issues at work 6th Oct 16 at 7:43 AM
    If I was eligible for jobseekers but not universal credit.



    I will earn a few hours PAYE. Are tax credits a better option, how do you apply for these?
    Last edited by applepicker; 25-10-2016 at 10:02 PM.
Page 3
    • tomtom256
    • By tomtom256 9th Oct 16, 9:15 AM
    • 737 Posts
    • 1,407 Thanks
    tomtom256
    That won't make any difference to the claim though. If you are a couple, you are still a couple when you live apart. Eg. if someone has a flat in the city near where they work but their family lives in another house in the country they still have to claim together.
    Originally posted by SkyeKnight
    The clue is in the "resident partner" if they do not live together she is not a resident partner!

    It all depends on whether the partner has a main/sole residence different to the claimant, not all partners live in a flat for work purposes!
    • boliston
    • By boliston 9th Oct 16, 11:06 AM
    • 1,740 Posts
    • 1,292 Thanks
    boliston
    That won't make any difference to the claim though. If you are a couple, you are still a couple when you live apart. Eg. if someone has a flat in the city near where they work but their family lives in another house in the country they still have to claim together.
    Originally posted by SkyeKnight
    This would come down to whether your flat was your main place of residence or not - if you spent the bulk of your time there and were registered there for council tax (and not at the country house) and occasionally visited the partner out in the country then you would not be classed as living together.
    • Gpod
    • By Gpod 10th Oct 16, 12:30 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    Gpod
    Being a parent is about so much more than genetics. And I can say that with confidence because both my children are adopted.
    Originally posted by sangie595
    At least you know for certain that you are not a biological parent but an adoptive parent. Now, try and have some empathy, imagine that you are a 'father' but do not know whether or not you are the biological father. According to research, around 1 in 25 men are unknowingly raising another man's child. Men should have the option of choosing to do that, not have it foisted upon them by immoral women.
    • PersianCatLady
    • By PersianCatLady 10th Oct 16, 1:04 PM
    • 173 Posts
    • 163 Thanks
    PersianCatLady
    That's nonsense if a claimant claims contributions-based JSA.
    The OP would still be asked if he is living with a partner and if he says NO, he is lying.
    • Mersey
    • By Mersey 10th Oct 16, 1:52 PM
    • 1,248 Posts
    • 567 Thanks
    Mersey
    I don't see why. [I'm aware of the 'benefits household' but that should only apply to means-tested appns and calculations]


    A claimant famously lived in a car and successfully claimed contributions-based JSA 3 years ago.


    Although nothing surprises me re some public sector forms these days. I saw one council's HB appn form that listed 6 possibilities for sexuality and asked - amongst it's 80-odd questions - how many bathrooms were in the property.


    I realise each council likes to produce their own forms but it's amazing how much they all vary for the same benefit. Hopefully the backbench MP's bid to minimise forms and simplify re Clear English will get Govt support. The old DWP script means some still ask 20-year-old women seeking to claim JSA if they receive coal miners' compensation £ (!)
    Please be polite to OPs and remember this is a site for Claimants and Appellants to seek redress against their bank, ex-boss or retailer. If they wanted morality or the view of the IoD or Bank they'd ask them.
    • PersianCatLady
    • By PersianCatLady 10th Oct 16, 2:07 PM
    • 173 Posts
    • 163 Thanks
    PersianCatLady
    I don't see why.
    That is just the way that they do it.


    If the claimant is then not entitled to C-JSA then they will process the claim for I-JSA at the same time.
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 10th Oct 16, 6:11 PM
    • 2,735 Posts
    • 4,277 Thanks
    sangie595
    At least you know for certain that you are not a biological parent but an adoptive parent. Now, try and have some empathy, imagine that you are a 'father' but do not know whether or not you are the biological father. According to research, around 1 in 25 men are unknowingly raising another man's child. Men should have the option of choosing to do that, not have it foisted upon them by immoral women.
    Originally posted by Gpod
    Well if "immoral men" kept it in their pants, there would be no doubt as to paternity, now would there? Typical Trump-ism. Blame women.

    And being a parent, or a father, is so much different from being a sperm donor. You don't need to be the latter to be either of the former. If the OP had any empathy themselves, then putting a child through this irresponsible form of parenting that involves sneaking around stealing DNA samples, and hiding from paternal responsibilities, would be the furthest thing from their mind. If their only interest is genetics, the child might be better off without a father in their life.

    And please do post the source of this staggering bit of research! Because there is no basis whatsoever upon which there is evidence to support such a ridiculous claim.
    • Mersey
    • By Mersey 11th Oct 16, 5:48 PM
    • 1,248 Posts
    • 567 Thanks
    Mersey
    I don't see why.
    That is just the way that they do it.


    If the claimant is then not entitled to C-JSA then they will process the claim for I-JSA at the same time.
    Originally posted by PersianCatLady


    I realise that - but they should stop doing so in such cases.


    It's a waste of both the claimant's and their time (when they could be seeing other customers).


    It reminds me of a case I think CPAG/rightsnet highlighted last year.


    A claimant applied for contributions-based JSA. He had assets (shares from memory). The JCP held up processing his JSA claim until they could take copies of his share certificates. They then called him in to ascertain the total value via some old online matrix the DWP uses. The value differed (presumably 'cos the share prices were different on the day he was at the JCP compared with when he applied for JSA). It was referred to compliance/counter fraud - even though he wasn't even applying for a means-tested benefit.


    I think he eventually received his JSA after 3 months (by which time he was back in work).


    Only because he complained in writing did this even happen. The JCP in question didn't even apologise - merely stating that they weren't used to people claims conts' JSA! What a waste of time and resources, quite apart from the potential breaches of privacy and the DPA.
    Please be polite to OPs and remember this is a site for Claimants and Appellants to seek redress against their bank, ex-boss or retailer. If they wanted morality or the view of the IoD or Bank they'd ask them.
    • thorsoak
    • By thorsoak 11th Oct 16, 10:30 PM
    • 5,179 Posts
    • 23,442 Thanks
    thorsoak
    Why should your girl-friend not know? It doesn't sound as if you both are not being totally open and honest with each other.

    More a problem to be discussed on the Relationships forum.
    • Gpod
    • By Gpod 11th Oct 16, 10:42 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    Gpod
    And please do post the source of this staggering bit of research! Because there is no basis whatsoever upon which there is evidence to support such a ridiculous claim.
    Originally posted by sangie595
    "Paternal discrepancy (PD) occurs when a child is identified as being biologically fathered by someone other than the man who believes he is the father. This paper examines published evidence on levels of PD and its public health consequences. Rates vary between studies from 0.8% to 30% (median 3.7%, n = 17)."

    "For any father, identifying that the child they are raising as their biological progeny is actually sired by another man (paternal discrepancy (PD)) can have substantial health consequences."

    "Typically, PD is associated with a woman having a sexual relationship (usually covertly) outside of her marriage or long term partnership."

    (Journal of Epidemiology and Community Health - Measuring paternal discrepancy and its public health consequences - Mark A Bellis, Karen Hughes, Sara Hughes, John R Ashton)
    • Mersey
    • By Mersey 11th Oct 16, 10:52 PM
    • 1,248 Posts
    • 567 Thanks
    Mersey
    I suppose 3.7% is actually quite low, when you think of all of the Waynetta Slobb/Jeremy Kyle/Am I Bovvered lovely young ladies out there today.


    From memory 8% of mothers in Knowsley failed to name a father on the birth certificate according to the NW Public Health guy (Knowsley is the borough in England with the highest % of single mothers at the last Census).
    Please be polite to OPs and remember this is a site for Claimants and Appellants to seek redress against their bank, ex-boss or retailer. If they wanted morality or the view of the IoD or Bank they'd ask them.
    • catz1ct
    • By catz1ct 12th Oct 16, 7:52 PM
    • 708 Posts
    • 414 Thanks
    catz1ct
    Although nothing surprises me re some public sector forms these days. I saw one council's HB appn form that listed 6 possibilities for sexuality and asked - amongst it's 80-odd questions - how many bathrooms were in the property.


    I realise each council likes to produce their own forms but it's amazing how much they all vary for the same benefit. Hopefully the backbench MP's bid to minimise forms and simplify re Clear English will get Govt support. The old DWP script means some still ask 20-year-old women seeking to claim JSA if they receive coal miners' compensation £ (!)
    Originally posted by Mersey
    Isn't the bathroom thing something to do with the rent officer referrals ?

    • Mersey
    • By Mersey 12th Oct 16, 8:06 PM
    • 1,248 Posts
    • 567 Thanks
    Mersey
    Possibly. Although in my area, it's included in one council's form but not the neighbouring borough's HB form.


    Of course the LHA rate covers the 6 boroughs of the 'city region' so is odd that they all have different forms.
    Last edited by Mersey; 12-10-2016 at 8:08 PM.
    Please be polite to OPs and remember this is a site for Claimants and Appellants to seek redress against their bank, ex-boss or retailer. If they wanted morality or the view of the IoD or Bank they'd ask them.
    • purpleroad
    • By purpleroad 12th Oct 16, 8:48 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    purpleroad
    If the OP was living with his girlfriend and temporarily but didn't declare this on the JSA form, would they find out and how?


    Out of interest, people must do this for council tax (there's a reduction for single claimants), how do they catch these guys?
    • boliston
    • By boliston 12th Oct 16, 9:08 PM
    • 1,740 Posts
    • 1,292 Thanks
    boliston
    If the OP was living with his girlfriend and temporarily but didn't declare this on the JSA form, would they find out and how?


    Out of interest, people must do this for council tax (there's a reduction for single claimants), how do they catch these guys?
    Originally posted by purpleroad
    You could have a "stealth" partner and get a 25% discount for single occupier as long as the partner was happy to be "off the radar" regarding being on the electoral register - they would have difficulty if they ever needed a credit card or a loan.
    • Mersey
    • By Mersey 13th Oct 16, 1:45 AM
    • 1,248 Posts
    • 567 Thanks
    Mersey

    Out of interest, people must do this for council tax (there's a reduction for single claimants), how do they catch these guys?
    Originally posted by purpleroad


    This is one of the largest undetected frauds (the 25% discount).


    Canvassers, postmen, binmen, GPs, Tesco deliveries and so on all see lots of properties with 2 living there, but only 1 on the Roll.
    Please be polite to OPs and remember this is a site for Claimants and Appellants to seek redress against their bank, ex-boss or retailer. If they wanted morality or the view of the IoD or Bank they'd ask them.
    • nannytone
    • By nannytone 13th Oct 16, 4:08 PM
    • 11,545 Posts
    • 16,796 Thanks
    nannytone
    This is one of the largest undetected frauds (the 25% discount).


    Canvassers, postmen, binmen, GPs, Tesco deliveries and so on all see lots of properties with 2 living there, but only 1 on the Roll.
    Originally posted by Mersey
    the people you mention DO see households with 2 or more living in them.
    but what they wont know is who is claiming the 25% council tax reduction.

    why not add neighbours and people that regularly walk down the street too?

    its about as relevant
    • Mersey
    • By Mersey 13th Oct 16, 4:39 PM
    • 1,248 Posts
    • 567 Thanks
    Mersey
    the people you mention DO see households with 2 or more living in them.
    but what they wont know is who is claiming the 25% council tax reduction.

    why not add neighbours and people that regularly walk down the street too?

    its about as relevant
    Originally posted by nannytone


    This is presumably why it's "one of the largest undetected frauds" as I stated (although it was also the words of the Frank Field MP, who chairs the Parliamentary Select Committee.)


    We know far too many are claiming the discount, it's just that it's left to local councils to decide whether they want to pursue the matter to find out who they are. Some councils choose to and most do not. In my own area, Liverpool City Council specifically had a Budget option detecting this fraud (an estimated £300k cost to save £1.9m pa), but they decided to spend the £300k on something else.


    Frank Field MP went on: "...in my own area we know from looking at the Electoral Roll that 28% of properties supposedly only contain one adult occupant and most of these will claim the 25% single occupancy discount...and yet Wirral Council, Census enumeration data, schools, churches all tell me that only 19% of households are sole occupiers from their data. The postmen know it, the milkman (if they still have one) knows it, the bin men probably know it too. I'm not suggesting Local Government becomes overly intrusive such as electronically tagging and measuring rubbish bins as some have suggested, but surely better joined up Government and data matching between the DWP, Local Authorities and so on could save us hundreds of millions every year?"
    Please be polite to OPs and remember this is a site for Claimants and Appellants to seek redress against their bank, ex-boss or retailer. If they wanted morality or the view of the IoD or Bank they'd ask them.
    • boliston
    • By boliston 13th Oct 16, 7:28 PM
    • 1,740 Posts
    • 1,292 Thanks
    boliston
    Is there not some way they can cross reference the addresses for paye and council tax to detect people who are "off the radar" as far as council tax goes but who are registered for paye?
    • dippy3103
    • By dippy3103 13th Oct 16, 8:35 PM
    • 1,519 Posts
    • 2,328 Thanks
    dippy3103
    How much hassle is it to say at your JSA interview that you aren't in fact living by yourself as you put on the form but with girlfriend? If you're going for contribution based then it shouldn't affect how much you get, should it? Just put day of interview they moved in not two weeks before or whatever. Also, call council and change council tax from single person. Is this all much hassle?


    Could ask for the JSA letters to be sent to work address, that would stop GF definitely knowing have signed on, can you do this?
    Originally posted by applepicker
    You are suggesting fraud by not declaring your true circumstances.
    If you claim JSA c it makes no odds.

    It's simple really. Put the truth on the form
    & be open with your GF.

    And you can't use work address for post.
    Last edited by dippy3103; 14-10-2016 at 8:11 AM.
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