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    • wattsupnow
    • By wattsupnow 5th Oct 16, 10:13 PM
    • 9Posts
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    wattsupnow
    Heating costs, gas and electricity compared
    • #1
    • 5th Oct 16, 10:13 PM
    Heating costs, gas and electricity compared 5th Oct 16 at 10:13 PM
    Tired of my gas central heating forever going wrong I bought some portable electric heaters, initially as a temporary measure but despite being advised they would cost a fortune to run they did a least work and decided as an experiment to install panel/convectors (NOT STORAGE HEATERS) throughout the house. If they didn't work then they could easily be removed and go back to gas central heating Some additional wiring was needed. Total cost, under £2000 in 2010. The running costs are about £800 annually for room heating and hot water. In 6 years I have never paid a penny in repair costs and my house is a cosy 19-22C day and night. I think that compares very well with gas if repair and maintenance costs are included.

    I would be very interested to hear from anyone else who has experience of heating a whole house using simple low-cost convector/panel heaters (NOT STORAGE HEATERS).

    I have posted a video; search Electric Heating, can out-perform gas CH... (look for the electric and gas symbols)

    I am private house owner with no commercial connection with the heating industry.
Page 1
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 6th Oct 16, 9:43 AM
    • 26,070 Posts
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    Cardew
    • #2
    • 6th Oct 16, 9:43 AM
    • #2
    • 6th Oct 16, 9:43 AM
    I watched most of your youtube video and IMO whilst it demonstrates clearly what steps you have taken, the conclusions are flawed. For other readers:

    Published on 8 Sep 2015
    Comparisons between gas and electric house heating are often very misleading. Invariably electricity comes out as having a poor performance and very expensive. The annual running costs quoted in comparison sights for each system are often based not on their own actual research from practical trials but hearsay evidence from other what are considered trusted sources. To fairly compare gas with electric heating would require an extended trial with 2 identical houses in the same location with identical lifestyles for the occupants. Each house would have to be heated to the same temperature for the same period each day and the same requirements for water heating. Crucially, the test would need to be long term for a number of years so that the cost of installation, repair and maintenance can be added to give a correct overall cost of heating. This is clearly a very difficult and expensive exercise which explains perhaps why no one has ever tried it. If anyone has, then they are keeping very quiet about it, possibly because the results go against the overwhelming popular opinion that ‘gas is best’ and conceivably threaten the very profitable gas heating maintenance industry. Electric heating would be easy to install in a new house and it is this very simplicity which is its problem - nothing so simple can possibly work. This video proves it does work. None of the instrumentation shown in the video is necessary; it has been used to answer those critics who, without facts and figures, continue to say there is no viable alternative to gas. A single thermometer - Boots £15 - moved from room to room to initially set the thermostats is all that is needed.

    It is hard to find performance figures for gas central heating. The output of the boiler is only a guide as to room temperatures achieved. Those who believe that ‘gas is best’ need to back up their claim, not by reference to averaged energy bills alone but the true long term cost, including care and repair and provide proof of comparable performance. It is this lack of published evidence as to real-world performance and long term cost of gas central heating that leads to suspicions of a rigged market which dismisses alternatives. Every new house invariably comes equipped with gas central heating effectively tying the owner to one system without the opportunity to choose something different.

    This 5 year study proves that it requires very little heat; an average of less than 3kW, to maintain a comfortable 18-22C inside room temperature throughout the house 24 hours a day, supply all normal hot water requirements, has 100% reliability and nil maintenance costs. Running the heating continuously may seem wasteful but suits those who spend the majority of their time at home and for whom a warm house is a priority.
    • wattsupnow
    • By wattsupnow 6th Oct 16, 10:49 AM
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    wattsupnow
    • #3
    • 6th Oct 16, 10:49 AM
    • #3
    • 6th Oct 16, 10:49 AM
    What you have expressed is an opinion not supported with facts and figures. Show me where anyone can find real-life performance figures for gas central heating so an intelligent person can draw their own conclusion. What are available are only fuel running costs which always favours gas but that is not the same as total costs when care and repair costs are included.
    • sk240
    • By sk240 6th Oct 16, 12:37 PM
    • 417 Posts
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    sk240
    • #4
    • 6th Oct 16, 12:37 PM
    • #4
    • 6th Oct 16, 12:37 PM
    I dont think thats correct at all.

    In the 4 years i have had my new boiler installed i have had no breakdowns (yet) so the only cost has been £60 for the service x 3 (£180)

    Install and cost for the boiler was £1500.

    Gas bill for the 4 years is around £1000 (3-4 x the cost for elec would some in at around £3200+)

    So at only 4 years, im already in credit vs eletcric heating, so even if i had a new boiler every 4-5 years, its still cheaper

    I suspect if you are finding a difference, is that you are using it in a different way to if you just used teh central heating.
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 6th Oct 16, 1:03 PM
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    Cardew
    • #5
    • 6th Oct 16, 1:03 PM
    • #5
    • 6th Oct 16, 1:03 PM
    What you have expressed is an opinion not supported with facts and figures. Show me where anyone can find real-life performance figures for gas central heating so an intelligent person can draw their own conclusion. What are available are only fuel running costs which always favours gas but that is not the same as total costs when care and repair costs are included.
    Originally posted by wattsupnow
    Of course it is my opinion,(that is why I stated IMO). Similarly yours is just an opinion.

    It is completely illogical to state 'my costs are £xxxx to install and £xxx pa in running costs' and in the absence of anyone setting up an identical trial, electricity is cheaper.

    It is like saying 'I ran from Cairo to Cape Town in 136 days and that is quicker than a car would do it, because a car breaks down and gets stuck in sand' So in the absence of anyone trying that journey in a car, I have proved running is quicker.'
    • wattsupnow
    • By wattsupnow 6th Oct 16, 3:15 PM
    • 9 Posts
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    wattsupnow
    • #6
    • 6th Oct 16, 3:15 PM
    • #6
    • 6th Oct 16, 3:15 PM
    That's my point Cardew, until someone sets up a fair scientific trial to compare electricity with gas costs over an extended period then I can claim anything, safe in the knowledge that there is no-one to dispute my performance figures. Running costs alone are only part of heating costs.
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 6th Oct 16, 4:52 PM
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    Cardew
    • #7
    • 6th Oct 16, 4:52 PM
    • #7
    • 6th Oct 16, 4:52 PM
    That's my point Cardew, until someone sets up a fair scientific trial to compare electricity with gas costs over an extended period then I can claim anything, safe in the knowledge that there is no-one to dispute my performance figures. Running costs alone are only part of heating costs.
    Originally posted by wattsupnow
    Yes but I can claim anything, however outrageous, but it doesn't mean it is correct.

    Your claim is largely based on your own assumptions about gas CH repair costs.

    Much as running costs are only part of the overall costs, have you considered that ripping out gas CH and installing all-electric panel heating will have lowered the value of your property by £x thousand? Ask any estate agent for their 'opinion'.
    • bsod
    • By bsod 6th Oct 16, 5:07 PM
    • 1,068 Posts
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    bsod
    • #8
    • 6th Oct 16, 5:07 PM
    • #8
    • 6th Oct 16, 5:07 PM
    currently, gas is around a fifth of the price of electricity per kwh, it's a no brainer to use a gas boiler if it's installed.
    • JJ Egan
    • By JJ Egan 6th Oct 16, 5:10 PM
    • 8,847 Posts
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    JJ Egan
    • #9
    • 6th Oct 16, 5:10 PM
    • #9
    • 6th Oct 16, 5:10 PM
    That's my point Cardew, until someone sets up a fair scientific trial to compare electricity with gas costs over an extended period then I can claim anything, safe in the knowledge that there is no-one to dispute my performance figures. Running costs alone are only part of heating costs.
    Originally posted by wattsupnow

    In 45 years one new boiler .
    Fairly simple when i look at the cost of Gas versus Electric unit rates . Even more simple when i boil a kettle of water on Gas or Electric .Even more simple when i compare my heating costs with your £800 pa + £2000 .
    • wattsupnow
    • By wattsupnow 7th Oct 16, 10:01 AM
    • 9 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    wattsupnow
    My heating costs £800 to run for a year: your heating costs £500 to run for a year.

    Illogical conclusion: your heating is better than mine.
    Last edited by wattsupnow; 08-10-2016 at 9:20 AM. Reason: did not make sense
    • Swipe
    • By Swipe 8th Oct 16, 2:14 PM
    • 2,185 Posts
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    Swipe
    My heating costs £800 to run for a year
    Originally posted by wattsupnow
    You could probaby knock £150 off that by lowering the temps by 4C in the bedrooms. I couldn't bear a bedroom at 22C
    • G_M
    • By G_M 9th Oct 16, 8:28 PM
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    G_M
    And apart from landlords, who pays for a service every year......?
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 9th Oct 16, 9:29 PM
    • 26,070 Posts
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    Cardew
    And apart from landlords, who pays for a service every year......?
    Originally posted by G_M
    Some new boilers have a 10 year warranty that is conditional on the boiler being serviced every year by an approved fitter.

    I have just had fitted two Viessmann boilers with a 10 year warranty. I have a log book for each which is required to be signed each year by a Viessmann approved fitter. It is much like the servicing schedule you get with a car that requires a dealer stamp.

    My installer charges £40 for such a service.

    Loads of people have servicing contracts with firms like BG.
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