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  • FIRST POST
    • Zola.
    • By Zola. 5th Oct 16, 5:00 PM
    • 558Posts
    • 196Thanks
    Zola.
    TRV valves on radiators
    • #1
    • 5th Oct 16, 5:00 PM
    TRV valves on radiators 5th Oct 16 at 5:00 PM
    All the radiators in my house are pretty old, they dont have any of these dials on them:



    ^ Are these TRV valves? If so, does that relate to the heat indicator etc, or what exactly makes up a TRV ?

    Should all my radiators have this function added on to them?

    Or should all my radiators be upgraded to modern ones?

    They all work, but just want to modernise the house a little throughout.
Page 1
    • flashg67
    • By flashg67 5th Oct 16, 5:22 PM
    • 1,954 Posts
    • 1,273 Thanks
    flashg67
    • #2
    • 5th Oct 16, 5:22 PM
    • #2
    • 5th Oct 16, 5:22 PM
    Yes, this is a TRV. If you have non now, then adding them will give more control over each room & potentially save money on heating bills but you have to factor the cost of fitting them - 10-20 each plus a plumber o drain, fit & refill the system
    • Zola.
    • By Zola. 5th Oct 16, 5:23 PM
    • 558 Posts
    • 196 Thanks
    Zola.
    • #3
    • 5th Oct 16, 5:23 PM
    • #3
    • 5th Oct 16, 5:23 PM
    is it a job that can be easily done by me?

    I have taken the radiators on and off before.
    • Grenage
    • By Grenage 5th Oct 16, 5:25 PM
    • 879 Posts
    • 822 Thanks
    Grenage
    • #4
    • 5th Oct 16, 5:25 PM
    • #4
    • 5th Oct 16, 5:25 PM
    Yes, it's a simple job to fit them. The Drayton TVR4 is a one I've used a fair few times.
    • Jonesya
    • By Jonesya 5th Oct 16, 6:44 PM
    • 1,150 Posts
    • 701 Thanks
    Jonesya
    • #5
    • 5th Oct 16, 6:44 PM
    • #5
    • 5th Oct 16, 6:44 PM
    One thing - if you do fit them yourself you need to make sure there's always a path for the water to flow around the system.

    So you either need to check there's a pressure controlled by-pass valve fitted to the system, or that you leave one of the radiators without a TRV - typically the bathroom.

    Otherwise once the house gets upto temperature all the TRVs might shut stopping flow around the system, potentially damaging the boiler and the pump.
    • tacpot12
    • By tacpot12 5th Oct 16, 9:01 PM
    • 370 Posts
    • 301 Thanks
    tacpot12
    • #6
    • 5th Oct 16, 9:01 PM
    • #6
    • 5th Oct 16, 9:01 PM
    You should fit these to all your radiators if possible, but as Jonesya stated you need to ensure that your boiler is suitable for this. Give the manufacturer a call. If your house has a radiator and thermostat in the coldest room in the house, then don't fit a TRV in that room, fit them everywhere else. If your room has a radiator and a thermostat in a room that is NOT the coldest room in the house, fit a TRV in that room and leave the rad in bathroom without one -set the TRV to prevent that room getting too warm, and set the thermostat high enough that all the other rooms are warm enough, their TVRs will shut down their radiators when the room is comfortable.

    The important thing to understand about TRVs is that they work by shutting off the hot water when the air around them is at the temperature set on the dial. If the temperature of the air drops, they water into the radiator. That is all they do, if the boiler isn't on and the pump isn't circulating hot water, they can't affect the temperature of the room.

    As has been stated they are not marked in degrees but rather with numbers. So you set them (once) to what is comfortable and never touch them again. They should all have a lock on them as far as I'm concerned!

    I hate the UK for its penny-pinching heating controls. Really, every radiator should have a remote thermostat controlling the radiator valve and be linked to the boiler to tell it where there is heating demand., and have a boost feature so that you can up the temperature by a couple of degrees for an hour. And a display to tell you the set point temperature and the sensed temperature. And be capable of accurate control of the radiator.

    {Rant over}
    • stator
    • By stator 6th Oct 16, 12:11 AM
    • 5,050 Posts
    • 3,211 Thanks
    stator
    • #7
    • 6th Oct 16, 12:11 AM
    • #7
    • 6th Oct 16, 12:11 AM
    Since moving from a non-TRV house to a TRV house I am very impressed. They do a good job in keeping the temperature in individual rooms within a certain range. Would definitely recommend. It will save you a bit of money in the long term but the main feature is that they make rooms comfortable and you can't put a price on that
    Changing the world, one sarcastic comment at a time.
    • southcoastrgi
    • By southcoastrgi 6th Oct 16, 9:47 AM
    • 4,964 Posts
    • 2,884 Thanks
    southcoastrgi
    • #8
    • 6th Oct 16, 9:47 AM
    • #8
    • 6th Oct 16, 9:47 AM
    One thing - if you do fit them yourself you need to make sure there's always a path for the water to flow around the system.

    So you either need to check there's a pressure controlled by-pass valve fitted to the system, or that you leave one of the radiators without a TRV - typically the bathroom.

    Otherwise once the house gets upto temperature all the TRVs might shut stopping flow around the system, potentially damaging the boiler and the pump.
    Originally posted by Jonesya

    Good advice except it doesn't have to be the bathroom & normally wouldn't be, it should be the rad where the room stat is normally the hall
    I'm only here while I wait for Corrie to start.

    You get no BS from me & if I think you are wrong I WILL tell you.
    • SplanK
    • By SplanK 6th Oct 16, 12:31 PM
    • 967 Posts
    • 550 Thanks
    SplanK
    • #9
    • 6th Oct 16, 12:31 PM
    • #9
    • 6th Oct 16, 12:31 PM
    Really, every radiator should have a remote thermostat controlling the radiator valve and be linked to the boiler to tell it where there is heating demand., and have a boost feature so that you can up the temperature by a couple of degrees for an hour. And a display to tell you the set point temperature and the sensed temperature. And be capable of accurate control of the radiator.
    Originally posted by tacpot12
    However its the cost factor.... a significant factor


    For hardware alone, to fully TRV my house from scratch would probably cost around 100-150....


    Honeywell Evohome (which I have just fitted) has cost me so far 950, so almost 10x the cost!


    Whilst Evohome has solve a couple of niggles and does seem to hold the temperature of the room much better, 'mechanical' TRV's and a well timed boiler is much better at the job than just using standard manual control heads in both cost and comfort.
    • BernardM
    • By BernardM 16th Oct 16, 12:39 AM
    • 355 Posts
    • 115 Thanks
    BernardM
    Anyone read/agree with these articles, I think they are bit of a waste of time and money fitting them in most houses.

    Try keeping your whole home warm and dry this winter with this approach. Timer on Constant setting and just main stat down to 18 or 16 celsius at night.

    Hence my advice that in cold weather, rather than run your central heating for two hours in the morning and six in the evening, it is better to keep it on the 24 hour setting, but running at a low boiler temperature. Turn all your thermostatic radiator valves to the highest number, or max, and turn the boiler thermostat down to 1, or min. The room thermostat can be at whatever temperature you find comfortable Id suggest 19C or 20C during the day, and perhaps down to 16C at night, but you can make your own choices. This advice is offered for its guiding principles, not as rigid instructions.
    • Norman Castle
    • By Norman Castle 16th Oct 16, 9:20 AM
    • 5,280 Posts
    • 4,052 Thanks
    Norman Castle
    If the thermostat is set to a low temperature there is no reason to set the TRVs to maximum.

    Set the TRVs to halfway, which is normally 70 degrees and adjust up or down in small amounts to avoid overheating that room. This is how they are designed to be used.
    Last edited by Norman Castle; 16-10-2016 at 9:49 AM.
    Too cool for school. Also too old for school.
    • BernardM
    • By BernardM 18th Oct 16, 6:47 PM
    • 355 Posts
    • 115 Thanks
    BernardM
    http://www.askjeff.co.uk/jeffs-handy-tips-central-heating-effeciency/
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 21st Oct 16, 10:06 AM
    • 2,498 Posts
    • 1,306 Thanks
    Hengus
    I think that the experts at Salford University have a different view. They have a test house and their results - now quoted frequently by control manufacturers - is as follows:

    House with No heating controls - Savings 0% (5.31/day)

    House with just a Room Stat - Savings 12% (4.68/day)

    House with Room Stat and TRVs - Savings 41% (3.15/day)

    FWiW, I replaced a hall stat and manual TRVs with a Honeywell Evohome zoning system about 2.5 years ago. My gas usage has fallen by c.20%. We have heat when and where we want it.

    Even the experts who appeared before a recent HoC Committee admitted that if every house in the country was fitted with a Hive thermostat rather than a smart meter, consumers could expect 10 times the savings the smart metering will achieve.
    Last edited by Hengus; 21-10-2016 at 10:21 AM.
    • BoxerfanUK
    • By BoxerfanUK 21st Oct 16, 2:13 PM
    • 281 Posts
    • 209 Thanks
    BoxerfanUK
    I've noticed a couple of references on this thread to the Honeywell Evohome system, which is something I've been looking into myself recently.

    I just wonder, for those that have it, how effective it's been at actually controlling the individual room temperatures? I don't dispute the potential savings (in spite of the high installation cost) but in practice does it maintain good room temperatures?

    Reason I ask the above question is currently we have a dual zone system up and downstairs with temp controlled by separate stats in hall and landing. As far as I gather, Evohome does away with these and individually controls the temp to each Rad' linked wirelessly to the Boiler, my point being, each stat being on the TRV means it's very close to the Rad' so if you set the temp to say, 23 degrees, as it's right next to the rad will it shut off more quickly because of this, whilst leaving the rest of the room not up to the required temp?

    Ideally I would like a system where you would have a wireless room stat in the middle of EVERY ROOM, away from the Rad' itself.

    Hope this makes sense.
    • SplanK
    • By SplanK 21st Oct 16, 8:13 PM
    • 967 Posts
    • 550 Thanks
    SplanK
    I have had it installed for a couple of months. ITs required a bit of tweaking to get it right, but it has evened out the temperature throughout the house a treat. Guesswork is taken out of when to have the heating come on with optimum start. You tell it what temperature you want it to be at a certain time, and it will sort it for you. It will work out over a couple of weeks how long it takes to heat a room and turn the heating on accordingly to meet that target, it then works out how long it takes for the room to cool down and provide just the right amount of 'tick over' to maintain it.




    I ignore the temperature reading and just go of what is comfortable but they do a great job of reading the rooms real temp despite their close proximity to the rad. However you can get wireless thermostats which red the temp of the room rather than the TRV itself but you are then adding to the cost. My advise would be see how you get on with the TRV first, live with it for a while THEN add later. Even with one my my TRV's behind a sofa, I was surprised how well its able to cope and hold the room temperature!


    It's a costly system, and although I guess it will save me on my gas bills (not a huge amount a I already had TRV's in most rooms), I didn't buy it for that, I bought it to make the house more tweakable and a nice place to live in through winter. Not too hot, not too cold.


    It does help however if you keep the doors shut
    • BernardM
    • By BernardM 21st Oct 16, 11:28 PM
    • 355 Posts
    • 115 Thanks
    BernardM
    Or replace the lot with manual valves and DIY a neglected practice that plumbers and heating engineers used to carry out as a matter of course.
    https://www.homebuilding.co.uk/how-to-balance-radiators/
    Last edited by BernardM; 21-10-2016 at 11:31 PM.
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 22nd Oct 16, 9:25 AM
    • 2,498 Posts
    • 1,306 Thanks
    Hengus
    I've noticed a couple of references on this thread to the Honeywell Evohome system, which is something I've been looking into myself recently.

    I just wonder, for those that have it, how effective it's been at actually controlling the individual room temperatures? I don't dispute the potential savings (in spite of the high installation cost) but in practice does it maintain good room temperatures?

    Reason I ask the above question is currently we have a dual zone system up and downstairs with temp controlled by separate stats in hall and landing. As far as I gather, Evohome does away with these and individually controls the temp to each Rad' linked wirelessly to the Boiler, my point being, each stat being on the TRV means it's very close to the Rad' so if you set the temp to say, 23 degrees, as it's right next to the rad will it shut off more quickly because of this, whilst leaving the rest of the room not up to the required temp?

    Ideally I would like a system where you would have a wireless room stat in the middle of EVERY ROOM, away from the Rad' itself.

    Hope this makes sense.
    Originally posted by BoxerfanUK
    This will be my third Winter with Evohome. The TRVs work extremely well and provided that the TRV is not placed behind furniture, curtains etc then the reading is pretty well spot on for most people. The 'geeks' will tell you that there is a discrepancy as the valves open and close. You can add a thermostat to every zone; however, I doubt whether the extra investment is actually worth it. Each zone can have as many TRVs as you need with one acting as the room sensor. The Evohome controller can also act as a zone sensor (I use it to control the TRVs in my hall, landing and stairs.)

    Currently, I am looking at a boiler replacement and I weill probably select either a Viessmann, Atag or Intergas as they are Opentherm compatible with Evohome. Opentherm control provides better condensing boiler modulation than, say, weather compensation as Evohome regulates boiler output to manage demand. It follows that when there is only a small demand for heat the radiators will be warm rather than hot.

    Evohome is not cheap, and it is not without its faults, but it is the best domestic heating control system on the market with excellent technical support.
    • BernardM
    • By BernardM 23rd Oct 16, 3:31 PM
    • 355 Posts
    • 115 Thanks
    BernardM
    Independently tested as not the best on the market with a pretty poor score of 57% by Which? for 219
    The cheaper model single zone performed better than it. 106 again poor score of 60%.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/lifestyle/interiors/jeffhowell/8278429/Home-improvements-What-is-radiator-balancing.html
    • Biggles
    • By Biggles 23rd Oct 16, 4:05 PM
    • 6,967 Posts
    • 4,408 Thanks
    Biggles
    Independently tested as not the best on the market with a pretty poor score of 57% by Which? for 219
    Originally posted by BernardM
    But the only one out of all of them that can control multiple rooms independently, and hot water as well.

    I'm a bit baffled by the way this article is written. Surely, if you have TRVs on all radiators, you just have to ensure that all the lockshield valves are fully open?
    • Jonesya
    • By Jonesya 23rd Oct 16, 5:44 PM
    • 1,150 Posts
    • 701 Thanks
    Jonesya
    Rather than Evohome at several hundred quid or more, I think a few strategically placed electronic TRVs at 15 each make sense.

    Personally I keep most rooms at around a constant temperature when I'm at home so TRVs in combination with the programmer/timer work fine but a few rooms like the bathroom, where you want it hotter at certain times of day, the electronic TRVs make sense.

    Set the electronic TRv to crank it up really warm and cosy in the mornings when you're showering etc then drop the temperatures down for the rest of the day.
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