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  • FIRST POST
    • beeringo
    • By beeringo 4th Oct 16, 9:41 PM
    • 42Posts
    • 34Thanks
    beeringo
    Smart Meters - Ask me anything!
    • #1
    • 4th Oct 16, 9:41 PM
    Smart Meters - Ask me anything! 4th Oct 16 at 9:41 PM
    Hi all,

    Just thought i would help here with any burning questions you guys might have about the UK Smart Meter rollout. I've seen a lot of spurious information and speculation out there on the interweb along with (thankfully!) a lot of informed savvy people!

    I've worked at the cutting edge of the industry for 5 years, for a Smart Meter manufacturer as well as a well known Electric/Gas transmission network operator, and have lived and breathed smart meters throughout, from a very technical backgound. For the past few months i spend a lot of my time in London with the DCC (the government's central organisation for the Smart rollout) sitting on various forums. It's a passion of mine both professional and personal!

    Feel free to ask anything - i might just be able to help
Page 5
    • CashStrapped
    • By CashStrapped 7th Oct 16, 8:35 PM
    • 854 Posts
    • 477 Thanks
    CashStrapped
    Question....

    I assumed that (with these being smart meters), via a portal, (other then your utility supplier website) or connecting directly to the smart meter, one could have a live update on current usage monitoring via a PC.

    My neighbour recently got a smart meter but only has a standalone energy monitor, which does little more than the one I have which connects to the incoming mains cable.

    Can you log on or connect to the smart meter via wireless to upload the data to your pc?

    If the standalone energy monitor can receive the data and display it, it must be sending out this data. Why can I not receive/monitor it on my own device (assuming software is available to interpret the data).
    • Robisere
    • By Robisere 7th Oct 16, 8:42 PM
    • 1,118 Posts
    • 1,767 Thanks
    Robisere
    I read my own meters, then I send the results to my supplier by email. What could be simpler? Why do I need one of these meters?

    The last government "estimate" I read for the cost of rolling out the things, was £11 Billion. And counting, probably. The suppliers are supposedly paying for this, after which they will pass on the cost in consumer prices. How can anyone possibly say that there may not be any increase in energy prices, as a result? Everything has to be paid for, usually by the poor suffering British public.
    There may be more than one way to skin a cat.
    But the result is always inedible.

    • sacsquacco
    • By sacsquacco 7th Oct 16, 10:19 PM
    • 3,659 Posts
    • 2,422 Thanks
    sacsquacco
    I read my own meters, then I send the results to my supplier by email. What could be simpler? Why do I need one of these meters?

    The last government "estimate" I read for the cost of rolling out the things, was £11 Billion. And counting, probably. The suppliers are supposedly paying for this, after which they will pass on the cost in consumer prices. How can anyone possibly say that there may not be any increase in energy prices, as a result? Everything has to be paid for, usually by the poor suffering British public.
    Originally posted by Robisere
    Have YOU any idea how much comparison websites take out of the industry. They take so much money they can afford to give me £120 cashback in the last couple of years alone. Re Nationalise the Utilities and run them properly and stop the millions lost to theft of energy and we would all be paying much much less. And of course, make smart meters obligatory and we ve cracked it !
    • Sterlingtimes
    • By Sterlingtimes 8th Oct 16, 10:34 AM
    • 1,235 Posts
    • 3,684 Thanks
    Sterlingtimes
    Can you log on or connect to the smart meter via wireless to upload the data to your pc?

    If the standalone energy monitor can receive the data and display it, it must be sending out this data. Why can I not receive/monitor it on my own device (assuming software is available to interpret the data).
    Originally posted by CashStrapped
    As I posted earlier, Ovo has provided precisely this facility. The meter data is received wirelessly from the Smart Meters by a little box, the Smart Gateway. The Smart Gateway is plugged by ethernet into one's router. Ovo displays the real time data for both gas and electricity via its MyOvo portal, but also retains the history which is displayed via various graphs.

    Example:

    Solar installed 21 November 2014 > Centre of England > 3,780 Wp > 14 *270 Watt Trina panels > 14 * Enphase micro-inverters > managed by Enlighten Envoy Hub > 19° west of south > 35° pitch > tree shading to east > iBoost > Wattson Anywhere monitoring > Ovo Smart Gateway > Schneider Electric (Drayton) MiGenie smart thermostat.
    • Sterlingtimes
    • By Sterlingtimes 8th Oct 16, 10:37 AM
    • 1,235 Posts
    • 3,684 Thanks
    Sterlingtimes
    Can you log on or connect to the smart meter via wireless to upload the data to your pc?
    Originally posted by CashStrapped
    Here's my picture:

    Solar installed 21 November 2014 > Centre of England > 3,780 Wp > 14 *270 Watt Trina panels > 14 * Enphase micro-inverters > managed by Enlighten Envoy Hub > 19° west of south > 35° pitch > tree shading to east > iBoost > Wattson Anywhere monitoring > Ovo Smart Gateway > Schneider Electric (Drayton) MiGenie smart thermostat.
    • OPENSPACES
    • By OPENSPACES 8th Oct 16, 3:33 PM
    • 32 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    OPENSPACES
    Smart meters and se tariffs
    I transferred to "collective Fix ?" in Feb in July BG fitted smart meter. To me the info displayed did not make sense, so I rang helpline. They said it sounds faulty will replace. Engineer turned and I said look at this does it make sense to you? No he said. Eventually after 10 phone calls someone told him that smart meters don't work with non BG tariffs. Why fit it then I asked and was met with a shrugging of shoulders
    • OPENSPACES
    • By OPENSPACES 8th Oct 16, 3:34 PM
    • 32 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    OPENSPACES
    Smart meters and mse tariffs
    I transferred to "collective Fix ?" in Feb, in July BG fitted smart meter. To me the info displayed did not make sense, so I rang helpline. They said it sounds faulty will replace. Engineer turned and I said look at this does it make sense to you? No he said. Eventually after 10 phone calls someone told him that smart meters don't work with non BG tariffs. Why fit it then I asked and was met with a shrugging of shoulders
    • CashStrapped
    • By CashStrapped 8th Oct 16, 4:37 PM
    • 854 Posts
    • 477 Thanks
    CashStrapped
    As I posted earlier, Ovo has provided precisely this facility.......
    Originally posted by Sterlingtimes

    Thank you for the reply, I appreciate the information.

    However, I was also querying if one could receive the data directly from the smart meter itself. Rather than going through the rather indirect portal rout via your energy supplier.

    As I said, the basic home energy monitor seems to receive the basic information directly from the smart meter. The smart meter is therefore undoubtedly sending out this data.

    I appreciate that independent software may be a requisite on the PC itself. But, surly there is a way to receive this data directly to ones PC, independent of any portal.

    Is there no way to log into the smart meter itself (which would be visible on your home network) as one would log into a router and directly access the data?
    Last edited by CashStrapped; 08-10-2016 at 4:40 PM.
    • M0ney
    • By M0ney 9th Oct 16, 1:13 AM
    • 413 Posts
    • 157 Thanks
    M0ney
    I'm going to sound like a right luddite here but I was offered one of these by British Gas this week and refused to take it because I feel that having one of these doesn't benefit me but must certainly deliver efficiency savings to British Gas and that that saving ought to be passed on, (at least in part) to me. I told him if he could knock a chunk off my tariff then I'd have one, no luck though.
    • 4legs
    • By 4legs 9th Oct 16, 5:47 AM
    • 2 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    4legs
    Sterlingtimes #85

    So your Smart Gas Meter uses the old type Diaphram meter as the Flow sensor or is the new Smart Meter attached to your old Diaphram meter.... interesting

    Oh! - does your IHD read/indicate the gas pressure after the main regulator
    • Sterlingtimes
    • By Sterlingtimes 9th Oct 16, 1:04 PM
    • 1,235 Posts
    • 3,684 Thanks
    Sterlingtimes
    Is there no way to log into the smart meter itself (which would be visible on your home network) as one would log into a router and directly access the data?
    Originally posted by CashStrapped
    I explored this sometime ago. There are some industry insider postings at:

    https://openenergymonitor.org/emon/forum

    It appears that for security reasons an end customer cannot directly access the data.
    Solar installed 21 November 2014 > Centre of England > 3,780 Wp > 14 *270 Watt Trina panels > 14 * Enphase micro-inverters > managed by Enlighten Envoy Hub > 19° west of south > 35° pitch > tree shading to east > iBoost > Wattson Anywhere monitoring > Ovo Smart Gateway > Schneider Electric (Drayton) MiGenie smart thermostat.
    • Sterlingtimes
    • By Sterlingtimes 9th Oct 16, 1:11 PM
    • 1,235 Posts
    • 3,684 Thanks
    Sterlingtimes
    Sterlingtimes #85

    So your Smart Gas Meter uses the old type Diaphram meter as the Flow sensor or is the new Smart Meter attached to your old Diaphram meter.... interesting

    Oh! - does your IHD read/indicate the gas pressure after the main regulator
    Originally posted by 4legs
    The new gas smart meter is Secure Liberty EG4v 10 with a J42 regulator replaced the older gas meter. Ovo was kind enough to provide me with the technical manual by email. The manual only mentions "diaphragm" once and indicates "synthetic".
    Solar installed 21 November 2014 > Centre of England > 3,780 Wp > 14 *270 Watt Trina panels > 14 * Enphase micro-inverters > managed by Enlighten Envoy Hub > 19° west of south > 35° pitch > tree shading to east > iBoost > Wattson Anywhere monitoring > Ovo Smart Gateway > Schneider Electric (Drayton) MiGenie smart thermostat.
    • C_Mababejive
    • By C_Mababejive 9th Oct 16, 10:11 PM
    • 9,914 Posts
    • 9,045 Thanks
    C_Mababejive
    Hi all,

    Just thought i would help here with any burning questions you guys might have about the UK Smart Meter rollout. I've seen a lot of spurious information and speculation out there on the interweb along with (thankfully!) a lot of informed savvy people!

    I've worked at the cutting edge of the industry for 5 years, for a Smart Meter manufacturer as well as a well known Electric/Gas transmission network operator, and have lived and breathed smart meters throughout, from a very technical backgound. For the past few months i spend a lot of my time in London with the DCC (the government's central organisation for the Smart rollout) sitting on various forums. It's a passion of mine both professional and personal!

    Feel free to ask anything - i might just be able to help
    Originally posted by beeringo
    Are National Grid gearing up to fit smart meters?
    Feudal Britain needs land reform. 70% of the land is "owned" by 1 % of the population and at least 50% is unregistered (inherited by landed gentry). Thats why your slave box costs so much..
    • Retired at 55
    • By Retired at 55 10th Oct 16, 8:52 AM
    • 112 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Retired at 55
    I apologise if these seem to be a stupid questions but I would be interested in smart meters when the new ones are introduced.

    Do smart meter installations mean that the existing gas and electricity meters are completely removed ( physically) and the smart meters put in place of them? Or are smart Meters put in to remain as well as keeping the existing meters, please?

    I ask because I have virtually no more space where my existing gas and electricity meters are situated. Are smart meters for both gas and electricity?

    Again, I apologise if these are stupid questions.

    Thank you.

    Retired at 55
    Last edited by Retired at 55; 10-10-2016 at 8:57 AM.
    • sacsquacco
    • By sacsquacco 10th Oct 16, 8:57 AM
    • 3,659 Posts
    • 2,422 Thanks
    sacsquacco
    I apologise if this seems to be a stupid question but I would be interested in a smart meter when the new ones are introduced.

    Do smart meter installations mean that the existing gas and electricity meters are completely removed ( physically) and the smart meters put in place of them? Or are smart Meters put in to remain as well as keeping the existing meters, please.

    I ask because I have virtually no more space where my existing gas and electricity meters are situated. Are smart meters for both gas and electricity?

    Again, I apologise if this is a stupid question.

    Thank you.

    Retired at 55
    Originally posted by Retired at 55
    The old ones are taken away. The smart gas meter I have is smaller than the imperial meter it replaced but the electric meter is taller than the old dial meter I had. At a guess I would say its around 4 or 5 inches taller than many electric credit meters.
    • Retired at 55
    • By Retired at 55 10th Oct 16, 9:03 AM
    • 112 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Retired at 55
    Thanks for the very quick reply, sacquascco - much appreciated. I would have a problem because my electric meter is in a purpose built very small meter cupboard with no spare space and my gas meter is in a tight space, very awkward, at the back of a kitchen cupboard.

    Would this mean I would not be eligible to change when the new versions are available? Thank you again for replying.

    Retired at 55
    • sacsquacco
    • By sacsquacco 10th Oct 16, 10:03 AM
    • 3,659 Posts
    • 2,422 Thanks
    sacsquacco
    Thanks for the very quick reply, sacquascco - much appreciated. I would have a problem because my electric meter is in a purpose built very small meter cupboard with no spare space and my gas meter is in a tight space, very awkward, at the back of a kitchen cupboard.

    Would this mean I would not be eligible to change when the new versions are available? Thank you again for replying.

    Retired at 55
    Originally posted by Retired at 55
    I can tell you that a meter fitter will probably take one look at a gas meter tucked away under a kitchen cupboard and walk out saying there is not enough access. They do need enough room to work on the and the occupier should be taking the cupboard apart so there is enough room to get at the meter.
    I see this all the time when meter changes are needed, not just for smarts but for imperial/metric changes. Under the kitchen cupboards in corners is the worst place. Modern kitchen units get built around meters which were previously easy to get at, but the meter was there first .
    National Grid have told me that they have the right to cut a gas supply if the occupier cannot give fair access to meters on the grounds of safety. This would come about after numerous attempts by different fitters to get at the meters . The old Imperial meters will run out of their safety window if it is over , I think, 25 years old.
    If you cannot find those extra few inches in height to accommodate an electric smart meter than I suppose you may have to employ an electrician to fit a new backboard. Its not the suppliers job to make the room themselves. I m not sure if your local DNO will do this job free, its their equipment so its worth giving them a call to find out .
    It looks to me that you will have problems in getting the smart meters fitted. You have the right to refuse them anyway but you cannot refuse new dumb meters when its time to change them
    Last edited by sacsquacco; 10-10-2016 at 10:06 AM.
    • brewerdave
    • By brewerdave 10th Oct 16, 10:04 AM
    • 4,012 Posts
    • 1,600 Thanks
    brewerdave
    Thanks for the very quick reply, sacquascco - much appreciated. I would have a problem because my electric meter is in a purpose built very small meter cupboard with no spare space and my gas meter is in a tight space, very awkward, at the back of a kitchen cupboard.

    Would this mean I would not be eligible to change when the new versions are available? Thank you again for replying.

    Retired at 55
    Originally posted by Retired at 55
    This post raises an interesting point -IF smart become mandatory in the future, who would carry the cost of "difficult" installations where space/access was a problem??
    • badmemory
    • By badmemory 10th Oct 16, 10:10 AM
    • 217 Posts
    • 192 Thanks
    badmemory
    Surely it would be up to the householder to make the space. I have friends who are going to have this problem because of, in one instance a new kitchen, which has left them barely able to read their own meter nevermind someone having room to change it. This should definitely be the householders problem.
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 10th Oct 16, 10:11 AM
    • 2,477 Posts
    • 1,299 Thanks
    Hengus
    This post raises an interesting point -IF smart become mandatory in the future, who would carry the cost of "difficult" installations where space/access was a problem??
    Originally posted by brewerdave
    No one. The Govt/SmartEnergy GB has already said in evidence to The Science and Technology Select Committee that they have already identified 45,000 properties where smart metering will not be possible due to infrastructure constraints. In the main, these properties are tower blocks where meters have been installed in the basement/ and properties where there are other installation constraints..
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