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    • southwinds
    • By southwinds 1st Oct 16, 10:51 AM
    • 7Posts
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    southwinds
    Intelligent Finance Power of Attorney help needed
    • #1
    • 1st Oct 16, 10:51 AM
    Intelligent Finance Power of Attorney help needed 1st Oct 16 at 10:51 AM
    I have just obtained POA for all of Dads accounts ..one is with IF who tell me as they are an online account now..they don't let POA access them due to security issues.

    Does anyone know how or what I can do...should we need this money...for care bills or care home fees
    thank you

    yes I have sent them the POA paperwork and my name is on the account but I seem to not be able to access funds . So should I have care homes bills to pay how would I . Has any one any suggestions. They tell me they are online only but POA people cant access the online service and Dad cant which is why I am doing things for him.
    Last edited by southwinds; 01-10-2016 at 4:35 PM.
Page 1
    • BlondBoy
    • By BlondBoy 1st Oct 16, 12:19 PM
    • 147 Posts
    • 104 Thanks
    BlondBoy
    • #2
    • 1st Oct 16, 12:19 PM
    • #2
    • 1st Oct 16, 12:19 PM
    Close the account using the POA would be simplest. They'll need to see the document, so they'll have to deal with you by post in any case on this, regardless of being an online bank.

    If you're not in a hurry, make the request in writing, enclose the POA (check whether they need an original or whether a copy will do) and ask them for a cheque payable to your Dad.
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 1st Oct 16, 1:41 PM
    • 19,212 Posts
    • 10,924 Thanks
    xylophone
    • #3
    • 1st Oct 16, 1:41 PM
    • #3
    • 1st Oct 16, 1:41 PM
    If IF don't allow internet access to Attorney, you can open an account as PoA with a bank that does.

    A relative has PoA for a family member and uses on line banking with (inter alia) Barclays.
    • DrSyn
    • By DrSyn 1st Oct 16, 3:14 PM
    • 423 Posts
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    DrSyn
    • #4
    • 1st Oct 16, 3:14 PM
    • #4
    • 1st Oct 16, 3:14 PM
    If they do except a copy of the POA, I would think it would need to be a certified copy.

    If you do send either document by post, it would be wise to send it by registered delivery or at least by recorded post.
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 1st Oct 16, 4:05 PM
    • 15,679 Posts
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    agrinnall
    • #5
    • 1st Oct 16, 4:05 PM
    • #5
    • 1st Oct 16, 4:05 PM
    Surely all you need to do is ask your dad for his IF login details - POA means you are acting as if you are that person, not as a third party gaining access to the account.
    • southwinds
    • By southwinds 1st Oct 16, 4:31 PM
    • 7 Posts
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    southwinds
    • #6
    • 1st Oct 16, 4:31 PM
    Poa
    • #6
    • 1st Oct 16, 4:31 PM
    I have POA on the IF account... they have had the paperwork... BUT i cant have a cheque book or bank card as with other bank accounts... IF say they are on line only as they dont allow POA people access to the account and Dad has alzihimers so asking for his log on is impossible.
    He used to use the savings facility via Halifax BS so they would use the PC for him in there. I doubt he ever logged on in his life. Now IF is part of LLoyds but basicly they dont excist so I have a large sum of money in a currant account and no means of accessing it.
    • southwinds
    • By southwinds 1st Oct 16, 4:32 PM
    • 7 Posts
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    southwinds
    • #7
    • 1st Oct 16, 4:32 PM
    • #7
    • 1st Oct 16, 4:32 PM
    I have POA on this account IF have processed it BUT the reason I have this is Dad has alizhimers so doubt he ever logged on anyway he used the facility via Halifax when IF was part of that group.
    • southwinds
    • By southwinds 1st Oct 16, 4:37 PM
    • 7 Posts
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    southwinds
    • #8
    • 1st Oct 16, 4:37 PM
    • #8
    • 1st Oct 16, 4:37 PM
    Certified cope sent and accepted by IF .. but they dont send out a chq book or debit card and tell me they are online only BUT the POA cant access the account on line. so Im stuck wondering what to do. Icant be the only one this has happened to so hoping somebody knows what I can do what my rights are .
    • BlondBoy
    • By BlondBoy 1st Oct 16, 4:40 PM
    • 147 Posts
    • 104 Thanks
    BlondBoy
    • #9
    • 1st Oct 16, 4:40 PM
    • #9
    • 1st Oct 16, 4:40 PM
    Surely all you need to do is ask your dad for his IF login details - POA means you are acting as if you are that person, not as a third party gaining access to the account.
    Originally posted by agrinnall
    No, it doesn't. You're appointed by the donor to manage their affairs on their behalf. Legally, you don't act 'as if you are' that person, you're their representative.

    Policy on internet banking access for attorneys varies from bank to bank. Some say 'never', some say 'any attorney can act', others say 'If there's more than one attorney, none can access online'. IF seem to fall into the first category.

    Realistically, yes, the OP could do as you suggest. But having been an attorney myself, the last thing I'd do is go logging into a donor's accounts without proper authorisation at the bank's end. Everything could well be fine and nothing may ever come of it. But if there are complications, it could make things very difficult as you then have to tell the bank you've logged into someone else's account without permission.
    • BlondBoy
    • By BlondBoy 1st Oct 16, 4:52 PM
    • 147 Posts
    • 104 Thanks
    BlondBoy
    Certified cope sent and accepted by IF .. but they dont send out a chq book or debit card and tell me they are online only BUT the POA cant access the account on line. so Im stuck wondering what to do. Icant be the only one this has happened to so hoping somebody knows what I can do what my rights are .
    Originally posted by southwinds
    As mentioned above, as they've received and recognised the POA, why not ask them to close the account and send a cheque payable to your Dad for the balance? Then open another account with a more attorney-friendly bank? HSBC were OK for me when I was an attorney, and others above have mentioned Barclays.

    Also, You could probably also open a current account, as an attorney, with another bank and then using the current account switching service to move everything over and close down the IF account at the same time. That may save you trouble if there are direct debits and standing orders involved.

    Would that clear up the problem for you?
    Last edited by BlondBoy; 01-10-2016 at 4:56 PM. Reason: Added switching point.
    • southwinds
    • By southwinds 11th Oct 16, 5:13 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    southwinds
    IF story so far
    Well Ive been in touch with the banking Ombudsman who are also puzzled . I have POA which IF accepted but they do not supply bank card or cheque books now and say its online only BUT as POA I cannot access his funds so I feel they are in a roundabout way asking me to close the account IF is now part of Bank of Scotland and seems its just running the IF side down now. So lets see what the Ombudsman come back with. Thanks for all the replies I was just curious to see if anyone else had issues with these old IF accounts .
    thank you
    • DrSyn
    • By DrSyn 12th Oct 16, 7:40 PM
    • 423 Posts
    • 192 Thanks
    DrSyn
    During the last 3 or 4 years, I have received a few letters from IF. These letters gave me the strong impression,
    (a) they wanted their customers to switch to other banks.
    (b) they wanted to run down and close IF.

    Reading your posts only reinforces this impression.


    As you have the POA. have you investigated :-

    1. Using the 7 day switching service, to switch the IF account to another bank who will give you what you are seeking (picking up a switching bonus on top).


    2. Opening up an account for your dad with another bank, who will give you what you are seeking. Transferring the funds to this new account. When that has been completed and you are happy closing the IF account by letter.
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 13th Oct 16, 8:17 AM
    • 15,679 Posts
    • 11,389 Thanks
    agrinnall


    1. Using the 7 day switching service, to switch the IF account to another bank who will give you what you are seeking (picking up a switching bonus on top).
    Originally posted by DrSyn
    IF are not part of the account switching service, although as a division of BOS they may be covered by their membership. It also only applies to current accounts and I suspect this may be a savings account.
    • DrSyn
    • By DrSyn 13th Oct 16, 10:26 AM
    • 423 Posts
    • 192 Thanks
    DrSyn
    IF are not part of the account switching service, although as a division of BOS they may be covered by their membership. It also only applies to current accounts and I suspect this may be a savings account.
    Originally posted by agrinnall
    1. I can only assume they must be covered in some way. When I used the switching service, it went through quickly and without any problems.

    2. In southwinds post #6, there is mention of both cheque book and card for the account in question. This implies it is a current account and not a savings account.
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 13th Oct 16, 10:34 AM
    • 15,679 Posts
    • 11,389 Thanks
    agrinnall
    1. I can only assume they must be covered in some way. When I used the switching service, it went through quickly and without any problems.

    2. In southwinds post #6, there is mention of both cheque book and card for the account in question. This implies it is a current account and not a savings account.
    Originally posted by DrSyn
    2. But it mentions them as not being available, so the reason may be that it's a savings account, something that IF were always much keener on than current accounts (in fact I didn't even know that they ever did current accounts, they don't seem to mention them prominently on their website).
    • Mr Goodkat
    • By Mr Goodkat 13th Oct 16, 1:22 PM
    • 360 Posts
    • 220 Thanks
    Mr Goodkat
    2. But it mentions them as not being available, so the reason may be that it's a savings account, something that IF were always much keener on than current accounts (in fact I didn't even know that they ever did current accounts, they don't seem to mention them prominently on their website).
    Originally posted by agrinnall
    IF used to offer most accounts - current accounts, savings, credit cards, mortgages loans etc their offsetting was a great facility a few years ago and their mortgage trackers became incredibly cheap following the financial meltdown, think mine tracked at 0.3 above base rate so went from 5.8 to 0.8.

    As part of the bail out IF had to stop selling to new customers whilst remaining part of LBG and was once going to be included in the sell off to COOP but was left out of that ill fated deal that never happened.

    I still have a current account and savings account with them their overdraft rate is under 11% so very competitive, don't use it but not worth throwing away
    • Mr Goodkat
    • By Mr Goodkat 13th Oct 16, 1:27 PM
    • 360 Posts
    • 220 Thanks
    Mr Goodkat
    During the last 3 or 4 years, I have received a few letters from IF. These letters gave me the strong impression,
    (a) they wanted their customers to switch to other banks.
    (b) they wanted to run down and close IF.

    Reading your posts only reinforces this impression.


    As you have the POA. have you investigated :-

    1. Using the 7 day switching service, to switch the IF account to another bank who will give you what you are seeking (picking up a switching bonus on top).


    2. Opening up an account for your dad with another bank, who will give you what you are seeking. Transferring the funds to this new account. When that has been completed and you are happy closing the IF account by letter.
    Originally posted by DrSyn

    Yes it seems like IF do want their customers to go elsewhere and it seems that eventually it will be either wound down or transferred into another part of LBG.

    They do as much as possible to make their existing products as poor as possible, appalling rates, never updating the internet banking user interface, no APP, not processing faster payments on non working days.

    Having had current account, savings, ISA, mortgage and credit card with them in the past I am keeping a current account and savings account with them until they close me down or transfer me elsewhere.

    Wonder how many of us existing customers are left?

    Making POA difficult is no surprise and they will view it as an opportunity to shed a customer
    • DrSyn
    • By DrSyn 13th Oct 16, 7:19 PM
    • 423 Posts
    • 192 Thanks
    DrSyn
    agrinnall

    If you take the first and last statements of southwinds post #6 together, do they not imply the money which cannot be accessed is in a current account and not a savings account?

    I have POA on the IF account... they have had the paperwork... BUT i cant have a cheque book or bank card as with other bank accounts...

    Now IF is part of LLoyds but basicly they dont excist so I have a large sum of money in a currant account and no means of accessing it.
    Originally posted by southwinds
    Maybe southwinds would like to clear up this point?
    • DrSyn
    • By DrSyn 13th Oct 16, 7:25 PM
    • 423 Posts
    • 192 Thanks
    DrSyn

    Wonder how many of us existing customers are left?

    Making POA difficult is no surprise and they will view it as an opportunity to shed a customer
    Originally posted by Mr Goodkat
    I was thinking the same things.
    Last edited by DrSyn; 13-10-2016 at 9:08 PM.
    • pinkdalek
    • By pinkdalek 13th Oct 16, 8:31 PM
    • 1,177 Posts
    • 667 Thanks
    pinkdalek
    Switch it to an account that allows you.

    You can open an account for your dad, you just need to take the POA, ID for your dad and yourself and then ask the bank to process the switch.
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