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    • powerful_Rogue
    • By powerful_Rogue 30th Sep 16, 10:00 AM
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    powerful_Rogue
    Private transfer never arrived
    • #1
    • 30th Sep 16, 10:00 AM
    Private transfer never arrived 30th Sep 16 at 10:00 AM
    Just after a quick bit of advice please.

    Private return transfers booked from airport to hotel in Turkey.

    Return journey paperwork said the taxi will arrived at 1905hrs to take is to the airport for a 2245hrs departure. Journey time is 93 minutes from hotel to airport.

    Waited outside hotel at 1845hrs. Was a car sat there and he looked at us and said "Willaims?", which wasn't us or anyway close to our name.

    15 minutes later the car is still there, and we noticed amongst many signs in the windscreen, one of them said "A2B" - Who our travel was booked with. Went over and showed him the paperwork from A2B, which he looked at and said "No".

    Come 1920hrs, still no vehicle has turned up for us, and as the paperwork said to wait 15 minutes, we called one of the numbers in which there was no answer. Called a second number and the person was very abrupt. Said a car had been waiting, no one and turned up and we would have to make our own way to the airport. Tried explaining about the "Willaims" car but to no avail.

    Hotel called us a taxi whilst I called the 24hr UK number. VBery helpful lady who said I would have to get a taxi, which turned up whilst on the phone. Was trying to talk to her and sort out the price etc with the driver who spoke no English and I spoke no Turkish.

    Got to the airport, but time was now extremely tight. Driver dropped us off outside the entrance in the road. Tried asking for a receipt, even using mime, but to no avail. As traffic was building up, he jumped in the taxi and left.

    So £100 for the taxi trip, however due to no receipt, A2B can't help. Lady I spoke to this morning was the same person I spoke to last night and was very helpful and said she remembered be talking to the taxi driver whilst on the phone to her.

    Any advice or simply a LBA / Small claims court?
    Last edited by powerful_Rogue; 30-09-2016 at 10:39 AM. Reason: Correct time
Page 2
    • Fosterdog
    • By Fosterdog 12th Oct 16, 4:10 PM
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    Fosterdog
    Nope, No second car arrived. The first car was definitely outside at 1845hrs when we walked outside with out bags, because as soon as we walked out the driver and member of staff looked at us and said "Williams?".

    We then sat outside the front of the hotel. Only other vehicle that turned up was a minibus which collected a couple from Manchester we were chatting with.

    When I went into reception to make the calls, the missus continued to sit outside incase a car did turn up.
    Originally posted by powerful_Rogue
    But that doesn't fit in with the GPS log, something else must have happened. If the GPS logs over there are anything like over here there is no way to alter or amend them.

    You obviously didn't see the car or you would have got in it but if the log shows it was there and the times it was there then it was there at those times. Is there maybe another entrance it could have waited by?

    What time did the other driver leave? The one who was waiting for Williams?
    • powerful_Rogue
    • By powerful_Rogue 12th Oct 16, 4:19 PM
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    powerful_Rogue
    Can see exactly where you are coming from, but we was there. The email stated the car would arrive, but to be there 15 minutes prior. So at 1845 we were sitting outside the front of the hotel.

    No other entrance to the hotel.

    We were sat at point 1, the car was at point 2.



    The car did leave around about 1915 - As at 1920 we started to make phone calls. Email said to leave it 15 minutes incase car was stuck in traffic.
    • Fat Walt
    • By Fat Walt 12th Oct 16, 4:41 PM
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    Fat Walt
    I'm afraid at the minute the balance of probability doesn't lie in your favour.
    • JimmyTheWig
    • By JimmyTheWig 12th Oct 16, 4:45 PM
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    JimmyTheWig
    Can you get them to give you the GPS coordinates of where the car was waiting?
    Can they give you a description of the car, which may rule out the "Williams" car?
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 12th Oct 16, 5:04 PM
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    unholyangel
    Can you get them to give you the GPS coordinates of where the car was waiting?
    Can they give you a description of the car, which may rule out the "Williams" car?
    Originally posted by JimmyTheWig
    Was just about to ask, have you seen the GPS reports they refer to?

    Also, was it just the GPS report they provided or did they also provide print outs of the job itself showing the name, pick up location, destination, time, whether the car picked up or not etc?

    If the reception staff at the hotel can't remember you standing outside/what time you were outside, ask them for written confirmation of the time you checked out - if its computerised booking system it will likely be logged - and again, this can help give weight to your argument that you were outside before the agreed time.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • powerful_Rogue
    • By powerful_Rogue 12th Oct 16, 5:15 PM
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    powerful_Rogue
    Thank you.

    There were no reports attached the email I was sent. I've emailed sunshine and asked for a copy of the GPS report that the Turkish is relying on. I've also asked if they have a job sheet available.

    Regarding check out, we had to check out by 1200hrs. They had a room for us to keep out bags, and we just spent the remainder of the day by the pool, until 1800hrs when we freshened up, got changed and had a drink before waiting outside for the taxi.

    Hopefully in a few days i'll receive something from the hotel to help back my version of events up.
    • powerful_Rogue
    • By powerful_Rogue 13th Oct 16, 3:12 PM
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    powerful_Rogue
    Just received a response back
    Firstly thank you for your patience with this matter.

    Further to your earlier correspondence, please find the supplier's response below:

    Dear Team

    Thank you for contacting hoppa.com


    Please see the response from my local supplier:


    Please note there were two transfers that day from the same hotel.
    One by the name of WILLIAMS the other belonged to this guest


    Your guest transfer was at 1905 Williams was at an earlier time


    I am afraid that we are unable to offer a refund for this booking.


    I sincerely apologise for the inconvenience caused


    No GPS report attached, which Sunshine said they would ask them for as not even Sunshine have seen the GPS report.

    Just replied with the following:

    Thank you for the response. A few queries regarding this.

    1) There is no GPS report attached which was requested yesterday which Hoppa.com mentioned. Please can this be forwarded on along with any job sheet the partner company may have regarding the transfer (Name, locations, pick up time, destination etc)


    2) What time did the transfer for Williams arrive and depart the hotel. Did it collect a guest or did it leave empty?


    Regards
    Last edited by powerful_Rogue; 13-10-2016 at 3:21 PM.
    • naedanger
    • By naedanger 13th Oct 16, 3:37 PM
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    naedanger
    Just received a response back
    Originally posted by powerful_Rogue
    It seems to me that their response very strongly supports your version of events (if I have understood things correctly).

    Your view was that the taxi company had made a mistake with another booking in the name of "Williams" and it turns out the only other booking from that hotel the same day was in the name of "Williams". How would you have known about the name "Williams" if your version was not correct?

    (Not sure I would pursue the gps log, or the time of the Williams booking. Even if the booking was much earlier it seems to me that someone, somewhere supplied the name of the earlier booking for your collection.)
    • powerful_Rogue
    • By powerful_Rogue 13th Oct 16, 3:47 PM
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    powerful_Rogue
    They never seem very forthcoming with information when they reply. Will have to see what the next response is.

    If it gets to the stage of LBA and SCC, would it be Sunshine who I send this to? Holiday was booked through Sunshine, however they have a lot of comments stating they are just agents etc

    As sunshine.co.uk act as an agent we cannot comment on any response but instead work with you to try and get a resolution that both sides agree on.

    As a member of ABTA we have an obligation to forward your correspondence to the supplier and to provide you with their response, or a reply containing an explanation for any delay in responding, no later than 28 days from today.

    However, we do aim to respond to all customer correspondence at the earliest opportunity.

    sunshine.co.uk acts as disclosed retail agent for all suppliers at all times.

    sunshine.co.uk acts only as an agent in respect of all bookings we take and/or make on your behalf. For all arrangements, your contract will be with the supplier of the arrangements in question. You may decide to make one or more bookings with us at the same time, however all bookings are available to be purchased separately at the same price as they are if booked together. This means that any multiple bookings do not constitute a package as defined in the Package Travel Regulations 1992. Please see our booking conditions for further details.
    • daytona0
    • By daytona0 13th Oct 16, 9:05 PM
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    daytona0
    This isn't just aimed at you, but I do chuckle at fellow Brits when they mention that (for example) Turkish people in Turkey do not speak English! Who would have guessed?!

    To make a more useful post, it might be handy to also view the Ts and Cs you agreed to and see whether that can help you in any way (worth a shot)
    ent.
    • powerful_Rogue
    • By powerful_Rogue 16th Oct 16, 4:18 PM
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    powerful_Rogue
    Heard back from Sunshine, this was the reply below.

    Firstly thank you for your patience with this matter.

    Further to your earlier correspondence, please find the supplier's response below:

    1) There is no GPS report attached which was requested yesterday which
    Hoppa.com mentioned. Please can this be forwarded on along with any job
    sheet the partner company may have regarding the transfer (Name, locations,
    pick up time, destination etc)
    Response - THE GPS IS BELOW

    2) What time did the transfer for Williams arrive and depart the hotel. Did
    it collect a guest or did it leave empty?
    Response - WILLIAMS TOOK THEIR TRANSFERS GPS BELOW

    Please be assured that we must, and do, strictly adhere to ABTA's Code of Conduct and having reviewed your booking, we have fulfilled our role as disclosed retail agent. Furthermore our role as Disclosed Retail Agent for the suppliers used on our website is to open a dialogue between the customer and the supplier and to act as intermediary by forwarding correspondence between the two parties in an effort to assist the resolution of any matters brought to our attention.

    ABTA advise that having booked your arrangements through sunshine.co.uk, who act as an agent, our job is to place you in contact with a supplier of services, known as the principal. Although you have paid sunshine.co.uk, this does not mean that you have made a contract with us. It is the principal that is contractually bound to supply the travel services you booked.

    I would respectfully draw your attention to our Terms and Conditions which all customers must accept at the time of booking and these state our position as Disclosed Retail Agent for the suppliers on our website.

    ABTA permit a period of 28 days for each piece of correspondence, both received and generated. We must, and do, strictly adhere to ABTA's Code of Conduct where we are duty bound to write to our customers when 28 days, or a further 28 days period is reached.

    As advised, as soon as we receive the suppliers response we will send it to you. I would also assure you that we regularly chase suppliers for their responses.

    Thank you for your patience and we will be in touch soon.
    The two attachments (GPS reports) are as follows. This one is for our booking:



    This one is for the Williams booking:



    Couple of discrepancies. Originally they said our car arrived at 1905 and departed at 1916hrs. The "GSP Report" shows our car apparently arrived at 1835hrs.

    This would make sense as to why there was a vehicle outside when we came out at 1845hrs. However that car driver said he was waiting for Williams.

    The Williams "GPS report" shows the car arrived at 1755hrs for a 1825hrs pickup .

    Looks like im getting to the stage of a LBA now, as you can see from the replies of the supplier, they're not very forthcoming with information. My question, is who would I send the LBA to. In there blurb above, Sunshine make it clear that my contract is not with them, even though thats who I booked and paid.

    So would I LBA sunshine, or the company they organised, A2B Transfers?
    • photome
    • By photome 16th Oct 16, 4:48 PM
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    photome
    I have no idea but if your car arrived at 1835, where was it when you went outside? what time does the GPs show it leaving, I cant make it out from those screenshots
    • powerful_Rogue
    • By powerful_Rogue 16th Oct 16, 4:57 PM
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    powerful_Rogue
    I have no idea but if your car arrived at 1835, where was it when you went outside? what time does the GPs show it leaving, I cant make it out from those screenshots
    Originally posted by photome
    Sorry, MSE made the screenshots smaller. Heres the links.

    Our Car
    https://s12.postimg.org/4pgbvfqql/image.png

    Williams Car
    https://s10.postimg.org/q2b5sjzbd/image.png

    There was a car sitting outside when we went out. however the driver had told the staff he was waiting for someone called Williams. After waiting sometime, especially seeing the "A2B" sign in the window I went and showed the driver our booking, but after looking he said no.
    • photome
    • By photome 16th Oct 16, 7:14 PM
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    photome
    Sorry, MSE made the screenshots smaller. Heres the links.

    Our Car
    https://s12.postimg.org/4pgbvfqql/image.png

    Williams Car
    https://s10.postimg.org/q2b5sjzbd/image.png

    There was a car sitting outside when we went out. however the driver had told the staff he was waiting for someone called Williams. After waiting sometime, especially seeing the "A2B" sign in the window I went and showed the driver our booking, but after looking he said no.
    Originally posted by powerful_Rogue
    That makes no sense as according to the gps the Williamson car left before you went outside.

    Looks like they are covering something up

    How do you know those times were not just enterd manually
    • powerful_Rogue
    • By powerful_Rogue 16th Oct 16, 7:25 PM
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    powerful_Rogue
    That makes no sense as according to the gps the Williamson car left before you went outside.

    Looks like they are covering something up

    How do you know those times were not just enterd manually
    Originally posted by photome
    Exactly what I was thinking.

    Personally, I reckon the second driver (our car) was given the name of Williams. That would explain why there was an A2B car waiting outside when we went out at 1845hrs.

    Realising the error, the Turkish supplier has changed things so they don't lose any money and have to pay for our Taxi to the airport.

    The issue now is, who do I send the Letter Before Action to. I have queried this with Sunshine and waiting their reply. If they say it has to be sent to A2B, i'll then query it with them, however I have a a feeling im going to be left in limbo with them saying it has to be sent to the other party.

    My logic is that I booked and paid Sunshine, so I will send it to them, then its upto them to claim it from their supplier.
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 16th Oct 16, 7:48 PM
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    unholyangel
    Exactly what I was thinking.

    Personally, I reckon the second driver (our car) was given the name of Williams. That would explain why there was an A2B car waiting outside when we went out at 1845hrs.

    Realising the error, the Turkish supplier has changed things so they don't lose any money and have to pay for our Taxi to the airport.

    The issue now is, who do I send the Letter Before Action to. I have queried this with Sunshine and waiting their reply. If they say it has to be sent to A2B, i'll then query it with them, however I have a a feeling im going to be left in limbo with them saying it has to be sent to the other party.

    My logic is that I booked and paid Sunshine, so I will send it to them, then its upto them to claim it from their supplier.
    Originally posted by powerful_Rogue
    Section 75? Did we ask about that already? Or covered by ABTA/ATOL? (cant remember which one deals with complaints)

    Tbh if you're unsure at all, send a LBA to both of them and name them both as defendants - let the courts sort it out!
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 16th Oct 16, 7:56 PM
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    DoaM
    Can you not name both as co-defendants?

    Edit: I didn't refresh before posting, so didn't see devil woman's reply.
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • powerful_Rogue
    • By powerful_Rogue 16th Oct 16, 8:39 PM
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    powerful_Rogue
    Section 75? Did we ask about that already? Or covered by ABTA/ATOL? (cant remember which one deals with complaints)

    Tbh if you're unsure at all, send a LBA to both of them and name them both as defendants - let the courts sort it out!
    Originally posted by unholyangel
    Thanks Unholyangel. With a S75, would they deal with consequential losses such as the £100 for the private taxi, or would they just refund the return part of the journey they never supplied?

    I've looked into ABTA. Apparently stages 1-5 of their complaints process isn't binding. If you move onto stage 6, then it is binding, however you have to pay for it to move onto this stage, which in this case would cost £108 - So much cheaper to go via the Small Claims route.

    I'll see what they come back with, then i'll go through stages 1-5 so the judge will see i've tried all attempts to resolve the issue.
    Last edited by powerful_Rogue; 16-10-2016 at 8:43 PM.
    • powerful_Rogue
    • By powerful_Rogue 16th Oct 16, 8:50 PM
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    powerful_Rogue
    Saying that, look at ABTA, they don't actually make a non binding decision.

    Once we’ve received their comments we’ll forward you a copy of their reply. If you and the company reach agreement then you can close the case.
    So is that any different to what im doing now via email with the company. It;s only at Stage 6 (£108) in which ABTA will decide and to be honest, its a lot cheaper to go via the SCC.
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 16th Oct 16, 8:52 PM
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    unholyangel
    Thanks Unholyangel. With a S75, would they deal with consequential losses such as the £100 for the private taxi, or would they just refund the return part of the journey they never supplied?

    I've looked into ABTA. Apparently stages 1-5 of their complaints process isn't binding. If you move onto stage 6, then it is binding, however you have to pay for it to move onto this stage, which in this case would cost £108 - So much cheaper to go via the Small Claims route.

    I'll see what they come back with, then i'll go through stages 1-5 so the judge will see i've tried all attempts to resolve the issue.
    Originally posted by powerful_Rogue
    Section 75 if you have a claim against the supplier, you have a "like" claim against the creditor - meaning that yes, they'd be liable for losses incurred due to breach of contract and wouldn't be able to limit their liability to the portion actually paid for the transfers.

    Read case 86/05 found here:
    http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/ombudsman-news/86/86-consumer-credit.htm
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
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