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  • FIRST POST
    • powerful_Rogue
    • By powerful_Rogue 30th Sep 16, 10:00 AM
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    powerful_Rogue
    Private transfer never arrived
    • #1
    • 30th Sep 16, 10:00 AM
    Private transfer never arrived 30th Sep 16 at 10:00 AM
    Just after a quick bit of advice please.

    Private return transfers booked from airport to hotel in Turkey.

    Return journey paperwork said the taxi will arrived at 1905hrs to take is to the airport for a 2245hrs departure. Journey time is 93 minutes from hotel to airport.

    Waited outside hotel at 1845hrs. Was a car sat there and he looked at us and said "Willaims?", which wasn't us or anyway close to our name.

    15 minutes later the car is still there, and we noticed amongst many signs in the windscreen, one of them said "A2B" - Who our travel was booked with. Went over and showed him the paperwork from A2B, which he looked at and said "No".

    Come 1920hrs, still no vehicle has turned up for us, and as the paperwork said to wait 15 minutes, we called one of the numbers in which there was no answer. Called a second number and the person was very abrupt. Said a car had been waiting, no one and turned up and we would have to make our own way to the airport. Tried explaining about the "Willaims" car but to no avail.

    Hotel called us a taxi whilst I called the 24hr UK number. VBery helpful lady who said I would have to get a taxi, which turned up whilst on the phone. Was trying to talk to her and sort out the price etc with the driver who spoke no English and I spoke no Turkish.

    Got to the airport, but time was now extremely tight. Driver dropped us off outside the entrance in the road. Tried asking for a receipt, even using mime, but to no avail. As traffic was building up, he jumped in the taxi and left.

    So £100 for the taxi trip, however due to no receipt, A2B can't help. Lady I spoke to this morning was the same person I spoke to last night and was very helpful and said she remembered be talking to the taxi driver whilst on the phone to her.

    Any advice or simply a LBA / Small claims court?
    Last edited by powerful_Rogue; 30-09-2016 at 10:39 AM. Reason: Correct time
Page 1
    • bris
    • By bris 30th Sep 16, 10:24 AM
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    bris
    • #2
    • 30th Sep 16, 10:24 AM
    • #2
    • 30th Sep 16, 10:24 AM
    Chances are slim tbh, they said the car was there you said it wasn't so it's your word against theirs.


    I don't however see what the taxi driver not speaking any English has to do with anything, negotiating a price is a universal language.


    Not having a receipt is also a big no no, it's a crucial piece of evidence when it comes to courts and proof. But even then it would just mean you got a taxi and still not prove you weren't late for the original car.


    Try the small claims court but without proof you got the taxi and them saying you didn't show for your ride your chances are slim and don't think for a minute the helpful lady will be so helpful when your seeing them in court .
    • photome
    • By photome 30th Sep 16, 10:37 AM
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    photome
    • #3
    • 30th Sep 16, 10:37 AM
    • #3
    • 30th Sep 16, 10:37 AM
    taxi due at 1905, you went outside at 1945, guessing that is a typo.

    the car waiting for williams does seem odd if no one arrived for it

    no idea how you prove it didnt turn up though, and without a taxi receipt !
    • powerful_Rogue
    • By powerful_Rogue 30th Sep 16, 10:38 AM
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    powerful_Rogue
    • #4
    • 30th Sep 16, 10:38 AM
    • #4
    • 30th Sep 16, 10:38 AM
    The car was there though. I kept saying to the missus thats our car, the fact it had the name of the company in the windscreen and no-one was there to take it seems to much of a coincidence. He just had a different name so wouldn't take us. Not much you can do to make a driver take you. Explained this to the 24hr UK line when I called them, described the car and the driver so hopefully goes some way to prove we were there.

    Negotiating the price wasn't an issue. The issue was trying to get a receipt.

    Id like to think on the balance of probabilities that we can describe the car and driver that was waiting, the fact we followed the procedure on making all the relevant calls, the fact our substitute taxi arrived whist on the phone to A2B (she heard me trying to talk to the driver etc) would help prove our case.

    I remember the missus took some photos of the front of the hotel last night, just checked and unfortunately she took them in such a way that it dosent show any cars, however they are all time stamped at 1900hrs - 5 minutes before the departure time.
    • powerful_Rogue
    • By powerful_Rogue 30th Sep 16, 10:39 AM
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    powerful_Rogue
    • #5
    • 30th Sep 16, 10:39 AM
    • #5
    • 30th Sep 16, 10:39 AM
    taxi due at 1905, you went outside at 1945, guessing that is a typo.

    the car waiting for williams does seem odd if no one arrived for it

    no idea how you prove it didnt turn up though, and without a taxi receipt !
    Originally posted by photome
    Oops, meant 1845! Will correct first post.
    • steampowered
    • By steampowered 30th Sep 16, 11:40 AM
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    steampowered
    • #6
    • 30th Sep 16, 11:40 AM
    • #6
    • 30th Sep 16, 11:40 AM
    In your case it doesn't sound like there is any proof whether or not the car was there, or any proof of how much you paid for the taxi.

    Small claims cases are decided on a 'balance of probabilities'. The judge has to decide who is more likely to be correct.

    It sounds to me like you acted reasonably so you probably should get a refund. It is not ideal that you don't have a receipt, but I don't think this should stop you from claiming the amount (especially as you were in Turkey and the taxi driver didn't speak English).

    A case like this could go either way due to limited evidence, but you explain yourself very well on here, so a judge may well side with you if you ended up issuing a small claim.
    • ThumbRemote
    • By ThumbRemote 30th Sep 16, 1:30 PM
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    ThumbRemote
    • #7
    • 30th Sep 16, 1:30 PM
    • #7
    • 30th Sep 16, 1:30 PM
    Not ideal, but might you at least be able to get some of the cost back from A2B with a debit or credit card claim?
    • susancs
    • By susancs 30th Sep 16, 1:45 PM
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    susancs
    • #8
    • 30th Sep 16, 1:45 PM
    • #8
    • 30th Sep 16, 1:45 PM
    If the hotel called the taxi, could you maybe email them and ask for the taxi company they usually use? Then use that information to ring or email the company and ask for a letter via email confirming the journey details and price you paid.

    When I have gone on holidays I have often emailed different tax companies for quotes prior to going, got replies and then checked them out on tripadvisor, so a lot do have agents who reply in English.
    • powerful_Rogue
    • By powerful_Rogue 30th Sep 16, 1:55 PM
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    powerful_Rogue
    • #9
    • 30th Sep 16, 1:55 PM
    • #9
    • 30th Sep 16, 1:55 PM
    Not ideal, but might you at least be able to get some of the cost back from A2B with a debit or credit card claim?
    Originally posted by ThumbRemote
    Holiday was booked via Sunshine who then put the package together, so don't think a section 75 would work in that instance.
    • powerful_Rogue
    • By powerful_Rogue 30th Sep 16, 1:56 PM
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    powerful_Rogue
    If the hotel called the taxi, could you maybe email them and ask for the taxi company they usually use? Then use that information to ring or email the company and ask for a letter via email confirming the journey details and price you paid.

    When I have gone on holidays I have often emailed different tax companies for quotes prior to going, got replies and then checked them out on tripadvisor, so a lot do have agents who reply in English.
    Originally posted by susancs

    Emailed the hotel this morning asking if they could contact the taxi company and ask if a receipt could be emailed through to me. No reply as yet though.
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 30th Sep 16, 2:15 PM
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    unholyangel
    I would try maybe putting it in writing - giving a description of the driver and car - after all, how else would you be able to give such a detailed description unless you had been at least reasonably close to him and how else would you know he arrived before 1845 and left at x time unless you had also been there.

    As for the taxi cost....perhaps try contacting the hotel and enquiring if they remember you asking them to call a taxi or any other details (perhaps overhearing discussions about prices etc) and perhaps if they know what the taxi fare to the airport is (not sure if its fixed by local government like ours but worth asking). Despite not having the receipt, you can perhaps prove on the balance of probability that you did incur £x loss due to the negligence of the company (or their third party agent). And perhaps add that any term which makes your legal rights contingent on compliance with a formality may be considered unfair and void.

    Regulation 5(5) - Indicative and non-exhaustive list of terms which may
    be regarded as unfair
    1. Terms which have the object or effect of
    (n) limiting the seller's or supplier's obligation to respect commitments
    undertaken by his agents or making his commitments subject to compliance
    with a particular formality;
    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/284435/oft668.pdf

    If they are regulated, try the regulatory body to see if they handle complaints.

    Alternatively, if you paid for a package holiday and paid by credit or debit card, those avenues (and the financial ombudsman) might also be something to look into.

    Of course, its always going to come down to how much time & effort you're willing to put into it.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 30th Sep 16, 2:20 PM
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    unholyangel
    Holiday was booked via Sunshine who then put the package together, so don't think a section 75 would work in that instance.
    Originally posted by powerful_Rogue
    Worth a try and chargeback applies to both cc & dc and if its less than £100, chargeback has a £10 lower limit on mastercard and no lower limit on visa i think? Might be wrong on that bit. You just need to show you paid for services that weren't provided. Wont cover additional loss but might be able to get at least a partial chargeback for whatever you paid for the transfer.

    Nothing to lose at least.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • powerful_Rogue
    • By powerful_Rogue 30th Sep 16, 2:37 PM
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    powerful_Rogue
    Thanks for all the advice.

    Head back from A2B - They are going to refund half of the price I originally paid as they did not fulfil the hotel to airport leg of the journey.

    They said without the receipt I will need to email over a complaint for the matter to be fully investigated and see what happens. At least that means im only £65 down now. Will have to see what their investigation highlights and whether they will refund the extra £65.
    • powerful_Rogue
    • By powerful_Rogue 12th Oct 16, 1:21 PM
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    powerful_Rogue
    Just to give you an update.

    I contacted the hotel who in turn contacted the taxi company and managed to get a copy of the receipt and email it across to me.

    Sent this onto A2B, however because the holiday was booked via Sunshine, I had to send all correspondence to them who in turn will forward it onto A2B.

    This was my original complaint

    I had a private transfer booked from the Litore Resort in Turkey to Antalya Airport.

    The confirmation email stated the pickup would be at 1905hrs on the 29th September.


    At 1845hrs we waited at the front of the hotel with our baggage. There was a white vehicle parked outside the front and the driver was talking to a member of staff from the hotel. The member of staff looked at us and said "Williams?" to which we said that wasn't us.


    After about 10 minutes the car was still sitting there and we noticed amongst the many signs in the windscreen, one of them said "A2B". I approached the driver who was on the phone at the time. I said "A2B?" and showed him my booking email. He took the piece of paper, looked at it for a few moments and said "No".


    We waited until 1920hrs and still no car had turned up to collect us. I then contacted the number on the confirmation email however there was no answer. The hotel staff then contacted the second number and said they would call back. Upon calling back the person on the phone was extremely unhelpful and abrupt. He stated that the car had been waiting there to collect us and no-one had showed. I attempted to explain the only car waiting was waiting for someone called "Williams". I was told nothing they could do and would have to make the way to the airport at my own expense.


    It was now 1930hrs and the flight was scheduled to leave at 2245hrs with a journey time to the airport of 1hour 33 minutes.


    The hotel called a taxi for us whilst I contacted the A2B 24 hour UK line. The lady I spoke to was extremely helpful and said I would have to get a taxi to take us to the airport. Whilst on the phone the taxi turned up and I was trying to arrange payment as we only had pound sterling available. The taxi driver spoke no English and we spoke no Turkish. In the end, the driver had to make phone calls as he only had prices available in Lira, Dollars and Euro. He came back with a price of £100 for the journey, which wiped out the last remaining money we had which we was going to spend at the airport.


    Upon arrival at the airport, with only very limited time available before check in closed, the driver stopped on the road at the entrance so we could jump out. I tried numerous ways including mime to ask for a receipt, but due to the language barrier and the traffic building up behind, he jumped in his taxi and left.

    ___________________________________________


    Since sending the above to A2B I contacted the hotel which phoned the taxi for us. I have included as an attachment a copy of my email to them and the receipt they obtained from the taxi company.
    I have just received their response in relation to the complaint:

    Dear Team,

    We have received a response from our local partner, we would firstly like to say again how sorry we are that your


    customer found cause for complaint whilst they were away. We do our best to ensure that the partners with whom we work offer the best possible service locally, and we were very concerned to learn that your customer felt they had been let down on this occasion.


    We have now received the partner's reply and would advise you that they state as follows:-


    Good day


    Issued pick up time was 1905 as per the GPS the vehicle was there from 1905 till 1916 the guests were no there


    Please see the GPS reports below. the time the driver left the office to the pick up location


    We hope you understand why we believe no error was made by the supplier and why we consider they provided the service that they had undertaken to provide. We are therefore unable to offer you any refund on this occasion, although we do apologise once more if the arrangements that were made overseas failed to live up to your customer'€™s expectations.


    Thank you for writing to us. Despite your customer'€™s complaint, we trust that their trip was otherwise successful and enjoyable, and we hope that they will not be deterred from booking with us again in the future.


    Kind regards,


    hoppa Care Team Executive



    Contacted Sunshine and had to follow up with another complaint, as we are not disputing that the car wasn't there, the complaint is that he had the wrong name so wouldn't take us.

    I've also just emailed the hotel to see if the can assist, either via the staff member that was outside at the time or from use of the CCTV available.

    Also Sunshine is a member of ABTA, plus we paid for the holiday via credit card, so guessing we might have some comeback through section 75, but would ABTA assist?
    • bris
    • By bris 12th Oct 16, 1:52 PM
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    bris
    No as you need to prove they breached the contract, they say they didn't you say they did so as you can see it's a your word against theirs situation. But as they have sent GPS proof they have the upper hand, you need something to counter this.
    • powerful_Rogue
    • By powerful_Rogue 12th Oct 16, 1:58 PM
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    powerful_Rogue
    No as you need to prove they breached the contract, they say they didn't you say they did so as you can see it's a your word against theirs situation. But as they have sent GPS proof they have the upper hand, you need something to counter this.
    Originally posted by bris
    I can see where you're coming from Bris, but i've never disputed that they car wasn't there. So the fact they sent the GPS proof I don't see as relevant. Im disputing the driver had the wrong name so wouldn't take us.

    Waiting for the hotel to get back in touch with me, hopefully they may be able to assist in confirming we were there in plenty of time.

    Apart from that, all we have is some photos taken of the front of the hotel which we're all date and time stamped for 1900hrs on that evening.
    • Fat Walt
    • By Fat Walt 12th Oct 16, 3:29 PM
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    Fat Walt
    I can see where you're coming from Bris, but i've never disputed that they car wasn't there. So the fact they sent the GPS proof I don't see as relevant. Im disputing the driver had the wrong name so wouldn't take us.

    Waiting for the hotel to get back in touch with me, hopefully they may be able to assist in confirming we were there in plenty of time.

    Apart from that, all we have is some photos taken of the front of the hotel which we're all date and time stamped for 1900hrs on that evening.
    Originally posted by powerful_Rogue

    If you've used a digital camera how do you prove the time and date is correct?
    • powerful_Rogue
    • By powerful_Rogue 12th Oct 16, 3:39 PM
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    powerful_Rogue
    If you've used a digital camera how do you prove the time and date is correct?
    Originally posted by Fat Walt
    Was taken on a mobile phone. Missus thought she would grab some more photos of the hotel whilst we were sitting outside waiting.

    I know on a digital camera you can alter the time and date of the device for it to incorrectly show on the picture, guessing thats also possible for a mobile and knew it would be picked up on here.

    Not much else I can add, just that if it does goto Small Claims Court, the balance of probabilities would play out.
    • Fosterdog
    • By Fosterdog 12th Oct 16, 3:57 PM
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    Fosterdog
    It sounds like there may have been a second car that you missed. You said you left the hotel and waited outside from 18:45 and said there was a car waiting there however the GPS tracking they have provided shows that your car arrived at 19:05 so couldn't have been the same one that you were looking at at 18:45.
    • powerful_Rogue
    • By powerful_Rogue 12th Oct 16, 4:01 PM
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    powerful_Rogue
    It sounds like there may have been a second car that you missed. You said you left the hotel and waited outside from 18:45 and said there was a car waiting there however the GPS tracking they have provided shows that your car arrived at 19:05 so couldn't have been the same one that you were looking at at 18:45.
    Originally posted by Fosterdog
    Nope, No second car arrived. The first car was definitely outside at 1845hrs when we walked outside with out bags, because as soon as we walked out the driver and member of staff looked at us and said "Williams?".

    We then sat outside the front of the hotel. Only other vehicle that turned up was a minibus which collected a couple from Manchester we were chatting with.

    When I went into reception to make the calls, the missus continued to sit outside incase a car did turn up.
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