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  • FIRST POST
    • Gin and Milk
    • By Gin and Milk 29th Sep 16, 4:46 PM
    • 216Posts
    • 246Thanks
    Gin and Milk
    I WON!!! Request for popla refused despite quoting legislation, what to do now?
    • #1
    • 29th Sep 16, 4:46 PM
    I WON!!! Request for popla refused despite quoting legislation, what to do now? 29th Sep 16 at 4:46 PM
    Hi,

    I recently emailed a template letter from the sticky to Minster Baywatch to appeal a parking charge which I had previously ignored requesting a PoPLA. Please see below:

    "I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car and I will complain to the landowner about the matter if it is not cancelled.

    I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers before they park.

    Further, I understand you do not own the car park and you have given me no information about your policy with the landowner or on site businesses, to cancel such a charge. So please supply that policy as required under the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013. I believe the driver may well be eligible for cancellation and you have omitted clear information about the process for complaints including a geographical address of the landowner.

    There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.

    Please note: "Changes in EU law last year say that appeals should be allowed (Alternative Dispute Resolution) for up to a year."

    "It is the will of Parliament, as a result of the EU Consumer Rights Directive, that ADRs must imminently be made available for not less than a year."

    I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply."

    This is the reply I received today:

    "Thank you for your recent correspondence regarding Parking Charge Notice 121883.

    Further to its contents please be advised that the signage displayed on this site is fully compliant and meet the requirements stipulated by the British Parking Associations Code of Practice, furthermore the Pay and Display machine located on this site was prominent in relation to where the vehicle was parked (please see image attached).

    With regards to ownership of this land, we are employed on behalf of the landowner to conduct this enforcement. The document affixed to the windscreen of the vehicle gave very clear instructions on how to challenge or Appeal this Notice and stipulated the timeframes permitted by current Legislation in which to do so. As nothing was actioned on this Notice it has now escalated to a Debt Recovery level and the Charge amount has increased.

    We are not legally obliged to supply you with any personal information regarding our Client, we will of course present this information in Court should you wish to proceed in this manner.

    Please also be advised that whilst I note you remarks referring to your correspondence as an Appeal, Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 states that you are permitted 28-days in which to Appeal this Notice, as this timescale has lapsed, I must advise you that this communication will not be recognised as an Appeal.

    There are now two options available to you, you can pay the Parking Charge Notice at the current prevailing rate of £155.00, or on 21st October 2016 this Notice will be passed to Gladstones Solicitors with the request that Legal action be initiated against you in order to satisfy this Debt.

    Yours sincerely


    Charlotte"

    As you can see, Charlotte (no surname) has flatly refused my request and has also disregarded the quotes about the EU and the will of parliament. She also sent me a copy of the charge notice which also states that payments by credit / debit cards incur a 4% surcharge!

    I'm really angry now. I tried to buy a ticket at the time but was unable to do so because of their machines. Obviously I haven't mentioned any of that to them, otherwise I am admitting I was the driver, but does anyone have any advice? Do I just go for the second appeal letter as posted in the sticky or do I have to fork out £155 (which obviously I really don't want to do).

    Thanks
    Last edited by Gin and Milk; 31-01-2017 at 2:41 PM.
Page 13
    • Gin and Milk
    • By Gin and Milk 1st Feb 17, 11:13 AM
    • 216 Posts
    • 246 Thanks
    Gin and Milk
    Someone left a comment on the Pranksters blog referring to the test the judge applied when considering adjournment. There are three stages (or limbs as she called them. I know many of you will be aware of it, but it might come in handy for someone. It's called the Denton Principles of Relief from Sanctions.

    Stage one: The Court should “identify and assess the seriousness of the failure to comply with any rule, practice direction or court order which engages rule 3.9(1)”;

    In our case the judge felt it was serious as GS had deliberately chosen not to comply by not submitting a WS, therefore knowingly putting us at a considerable disadvantage.

    Stage two: The Court should consider why the default occurred;

    The judge stated that she believed the default had occurred because GS 'hadn't bothered to send anything'.

    Stage three: The Court should “evaluate all the circumstances of the case, so as to enable [the court] to deal justly with the application including [factors (a) and (b)]”.

    The judge felt that GS had already wasted enough of the court's time and that there was no justification for their actions. They had failed the test right from the first stage.

    What I forgot to mention about costs, was that the judge asked me if I'd emailed the court and either GS or MB (can't remember which) 24 hours before. Because I hadn't, this was why she couldn't award costs for things like postage, printing etc. She did say she could award costs for parking and mileage and I think the reason she rounded it up to a tenner was because, had she been able to do so, she would have awarded us a lot more. But, as you all know, I'm just glad it's over!
    • Gin and Milk
    • By Gin and Milk 1st Feb 17, 11:23 AM
    • 216 Posts
    • 246 Thanks
    Gin and Milk
    Well guess what has just literally arrived in the post?!

    GLADSTONES WITNESS STATEMENT!!!

    Dated 26th Jan, 9 days after the deadline and the covering letter was dated yesterday - why bother to send it at all?!

    No doubt the court received their copy today too. Which may well end up in the bin. I certainly hope so anyway.

    You couldn't make it up could you?
    Last edited by Gin and Milk; 01-02-2017 at 11:26 AM.
    • bargepole
    • By bargepole 1st Feb 17, 11:37 AM
    • 1,962 Posts
    • 5,530 Thanks
    bargepole
    Yes, that's right about the Denton test. Generally speaking, if the WS is filed a day or two past the deadline, the Court won't regard that as having seriously disadvantaged the other party, and will probably let it pass.

    In one of my cases, they (Gladstones) filed it 8 days late, and the Judge struck it out, including the entire claim.

    In your little escapade, MB will have incurred fees as follows:

    £25 Gladstones fee for handling the claim
    £25 Court filing fee
    £25 Court hearing fee
    £50 Gladstones fee for preparing the WS
    £210 Advocate fee for attending the hearing
    £10 costs awarded

    So overall that's £345 down the toilet thanks to the utter incompetence of the shysters in Knutsford.
    Speeding cases fought: 24 (3 of mine, 21 for others). Cases won: 20. Points on licence: 0. Private Parking Court Cases: Won 23. Lost 7.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 1st Feb 17, 11:54 AM
    • 6,578 Posts
    • 5,521 Thanks
    The Deep
    It has cost the PPC probably north of £500, but how much has it cost the OP?

    Probably several hours drafting and re-drafting letters, hours and hours reading CPRs, PoFA, fora such as this, going to court, hanging around while a judge reads the papers, maybe some sleepless nights.

    And what compensation does he get, a tenner, not enough for a decent haircut. It is a disgrace.
    Last edited by The Deep; 01-02-2017 at 11:56 AM.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Gin and Milk
    • By Gin and Milk 1st Feb 17, 12:05 PM
    • 216 Posts
    • 246 Thanks
    Gin and Milk
    It has cost the PPC probably north of £500, but how much has it cost the OP?

    Probably several hours drafting and re-drafting letters, hours and hours reading CPRs, PoFA, fora such as this, going to court, hanging around while a judge reads the papers, maybe some sleepless nights.


    And what compensation does he get, a tenner, not enough for a decent haircut. It is a bloody disgrace.
    Originally posted by The Deep
    There's no doubt it cost a heck of a lot more than a tenner, however when the judge asked about costs, she said she couldn't award anything other than mileage as the defendant is supposed to notify the court (and maybe the claimant, I can't remember) 24 hours before the hearing date. I kind of got the impression she wanted to award us more, partly because she rounded the costs up to a tenner and she did apologise.

    You're right about the sleepless nights though, there were plenty of those, but I slept like a log last night, partly because that tenner went on a couple of bottles of wine!

    I'm still baffled as to why GS bothered to post their WS statement yesterday when they knew that was the date of the hearing. At first I wondered if they were trying to appeal the case, but the judge struck it out after 5 minutes, as she wasn't prepared to consider an adjournment as they hadn't filed anything. Besides which, even if an appeal was financially viable for MB, shouldn't it say it's an appeal?

    I don't think I will ever understand their logic for as long as I live!
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 1st Feb 17, 1:17 PM
    • 13,145 Posts
    • 20,542 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    What's a lekker result?
    Originally posted by Gin and Milk
    Google it alongside my user name and you might get where I'm coming from
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • safarmuk
    • By safarmuk 1st Feb 17, 1:24 PM
    • 407 Posts
    • 770 Thanks
    safarmuk
    Gin & Milk, to be honest there is probably a factory line in Gladstones where WS are churned out alongside a side business of junk mail ... there was probably a backlog and yours got spat out late ... doubt they even realise ...
    • Gin and Milk
    • By Gin and Milk 17th Feb 17, 9:09 AM
    • 216 Posts
    • 246 Thanks
    Gin and Milk
    Well I thought the matter was over and done with, but I have yet another question!

    We should have received our costs no later than 4pm on the 14th, and guess what - we haven't had anything. It's only £10, which I know isn't much, but it's the principle as much as anything. Husband phoned the court yesterday and they said the only thing we can do is to get a warrant to chase MB for the costs, which would cost considerably more than £10. Do any of you know if there's another way around this?

    I have considered emailing MB about it, I've also considered enclosing one of their photoshopped pictures along with a photo of what the car park really looks like. Basically the photo in their WS has a massive parking sign in front of some cars, when the reality is that the sign isn't there at all. I spend a lot of time in this car park, so I know it very well and it's easy to prove. I've also considered contacting my local MP, but I can't really go to the press as I could get into trouble over it.

    Can anyone advise me please? Like I say £10 is a paltry sum, but I'm guessing they have no intention of paying and are assuming we'll just forget about it.

    Thanks
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 17th Feb 17, 9:19 AM
    • 39,235 Posts
    • 78,383 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Well I thought the matter was over and done with, but I have yet another question!

    We should have received our costs no later than 4pm on the 14th, and guess what - we haven't had anything. It's only £10, which I know isn't much, but it's the principle as much as anything. Husband phoned the court yesterday and they said the only thing we can do is to get a warrant to chase MB for the costs, which would cost considerably more than £10. Do any of you know if there's another way around this?

    I have considered emailing MB about it, I've also considered enclosing one of their photoshopped pictures along with a photo of what the car park really looks like. Basically the photo in their WS has a massive parking sign in front of some cars, when the reality is that the sign isn't there at all. I spend a lot of time in this car park, so I know it very well and it's easy to prove. I've also considered contacting my local MP, but I can't really go to the press as I could get into trouble over it.

    Can anyone advise me please? Like I say £10 is a paltry sum, but I'm guessing they have no intention of paying and are assuming we'll just forget about it.

    Thanks
    Originally posted by Gin and Milk
    A LBCCC, and add on some made up costs.
    and add on the court filing fee.

    The court instructed the scammers to pay costs, I see no reason why the courts should not be used to make them actually pay.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 17th Feb 17, 9:23 AM
    • 5,297 Posts
    • 6,731 Thanks
    beamerguy
    Well I thought the matter was over and done with, but I have yet another question!

    We should have received our costs no later than 4pm on the 14th, and guess what - we haven't had anything. It's only £10, which I know isn't much, but it's the principle as much as anything. Husband phoned the court yesterday and they said the only thing we can do is to get a warrant to chase MB for the costs, which would cost considerably more than £10. Do any of you know if there's another way around this?

    I have considered emailing MB about it, I've also considered enclosing one of their photoshopped pictures along with a photo of what the car park really looks like. Basically the photo in their WS has a massive parking sign in front of some cars, when the reality is that the sign isn't there at all. I spend a lot of time in this car park, so I know it very well and it's easy to prove. I've also considered contacting my local MP, but I can't really go to the press as I could get into trouble over it.

    Can anyone advise me please? Like I say £10 is a paltry sum, but I'm guessing they have no intention of paying and are assuming we'll just forget about it.

    Thanks
    Originally posted by Gin and Milk
    It costs £110 so not in line with £10 but ...... this is added for the debtor to pay = £120
    A bit like these vermin add on costs but through the courts its legal

    Worth advising MB what you intend to do and the cost for them
    Give them 7 days to send you payment and thereafter a warrant will be issued without further notice

    County Court Bailiffs. ... They work under the authority of a Warrant of Execution which can be requested from the County Court for a fee of £110. County Court Bailiffs will collect your judgement debt, your court costs, your warrant cost and interest (if prescribed) from the debtor.

    PS: The bailiffs do not chase a debt, they arrive with a warrant to collect.
    They do not play games with a debtor and have the authority to seize goods
    Last edited by beamerguy; 17-02-2017 at 9:41 AM.
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 17th Feb 17, 9:40 AM
    • 39,235 Posts
    • 78,383 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    It costs £110 so not in line with £10 but ...... this is added for the debtor to pay = £120
    A bit like these vermin add on costs but through the courts its legal

    Worth advising MB what you intend to do and the cost for them
    Give them 7 days to send you payment and thereafter a warrant will be issued without further notice

    County Court Bailiffs. ... They work under the authority of a Warrant of Execution which can be requested from the County Court for a fee of £110. County Court Bailiffs will collect your judgement debt, your court costs, your warrant cost and interest (if prescribed) from the debtor.

    PS: The bailiffs do not chase a debt, they arrive with a warrant to collect
    Originally posted by beamerguy
    This! Much better put than wot I said.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 17th Feb 17, 9:49 AM
    • 5,297 Posts
    • 6,731 Thanks
    beamerguy
    This! Much better put than wot I said.
    Originally posted by Fruitcake
    This is about a principal.

    When (on a different forum) we were fighting for PPI refunds, NatWest lost in court some £700, they ignored the judgement so the court bailiffs were sent in and that cost the bank a lot more.
    Imagine the faces of staff, customers when the bailiffs turned up at the branch
    It was so funny
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 17th Feb 17, 10:31 AM
    • 39,235 Posts
    • 78,383 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    This is about a principal.

    When (on a different forum) we were fighting for PPI refunds, NatWest lost in court some £700, they ignored the judgement so the court bailiffs were sent in and that cost the bank a lot more.
    Imagine the faces of staff, customers when the bailiffs turned up at the branch
    It was so funny
    Originally posted by beamerguy
    I agree entirely. No faffing about asking for the money or complaining to the BPA. Go straight for the jugular. You owe me £10. You have got 1 week to pay me or it will cost you a lot more.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Gin and Milk
    • By Gin and Milk 18th Feb 17, 10:33 AM
    • 216 Posts
    • 246 Thanks
    Gin and Milk
    Thanks for your help folks and sorry I didn't reply sooner.
    Guess what arrived in the post this morning?!
    Husband was a bit disappointed tbh, he was all ready for another fight, but personally I'm relieved.
    I'm surprised the cheque was from Gladstones though, I thought it would come directly from MB.
    Now let's see if it bounces!
    • twhitehousescat
    • By twhitehousescat 18th Feb 17, 10:40 AM
    • 767 Posts
    • 909 Thanks
    twhitehousescat
    MB were probably so ^&*(ed off they made gladstones pay it
    Time pretending I was asleep whilst under his desk , has given me insight to this sordid world
    • Ralph-y
    • By Ralph-y 18th Feb 17, 12:09 PM
    • 2,266 Posts
    • 2,764 Thanks
    Ralph-y
    time to buy a new wall frame

    well done

    Ralph
    • heidim76
    • By heidim76 3rd Mar 17, 12:16 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    heidim76
    I'm about to go through this myself - court date is set for May. Gladstones have paid the hearing fee according to the court.
    I've sent you a PM Gin & Milk rather than hijacking your thread.
    • Gin and Milk
    • By Gin and Milk 11th Mar 17, 9:56 AM
    • 216 Posts
    • 246 Thanks
    Gin and Milk
    Well is there nothing Gladstones et al won't do?!
    Last week husband paid the cheque for costs into his account and this morning we got a letter from the bank alongside the cheque stamped 'PAYMENT STOPPED'. Now it's only for £10 but for us that's not the point and I don't know why Gladstones have stopped the payment, but the cheque was definitely issued by them albeit later than the judge said.
    I am going to email them, not sure about including MB in that email too, but does anyone know of any legislation I can refer to in my email as I'm loathe to go through the courts to get it back as money is a bit tight at the moment. Any other advice would be gratefully received too!

    Thanks
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 11th Mar 17, 10:36 AM
    • 5,297 Posts
    • 6,731 Thanks
    beamerguy
    Well is there nothing Gladstones et al won't do?!
    Last week husband paid the cheque for costs into his account and this morning we got a letter from the bank alongside the cheque stamped 'PAYMENT STOPPED'. Now it's only for £10 but for us that's not the point and I don't know why Gladstones have stopped the payment, but the cheque was definitely issued by them albeit later than the judge said.
    I am going to email them, not sure about including MB in that email too, but does anyone know of any legislation I can refer to in my email as I'm loathe to go through the courts to get it back as money is a bit tight at the moment. Any other advice would be gratefully received too!

    Thanks
    Originally posted by Gin and Milk
    WHAT ????

    You need Gladstones to tell you why they stopped the cheque and they need to be warned that their failure to abide by the courts ruling, you will instruct the court for a warrant of execution to collect the money which will include further costs of £110
    The court will not be impressed with this.

    First, Gladstones must explain to you within 7 days why ?
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Gin and Milk
    • By Gin and Milk 11th Mar 17, 10:48 AM
    • 216 Posts
    • 246 Thanks
    Gin and Milk
    Thanks beamerguy.
    I have a feeling their response will be to refer me to Minster Baywatch which is why I wondered whether or not I should include them in my email? I was surprised that the cheque was issued by GS in the first place, given that MB was the claimant, but there you go.

    I know that chasing this up might seem petty to some, but they were more than happy to put me through the wringer over £1.50, so I don't see why they should expect any different from me!
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