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    • Oakdene
    • By Oakdene 29th Sep 16, 9:01 AM
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    Oakdene
    Entitlement following seperation
    • #1
    • 29th Sep 16, 9:01 AM
    Entitlement following seperation 29th Sep 16 at 9:01 AM
    Hi all

    I'd like to start by saying I have told my friend to get to a solicitor sharpish but she cant see one until late next week so I'm seeking info to help reassure her or to show her what will happen...

    A very close friend of mine is about to separate from her husband following him being unfaithful on a number of occasions. (This is not me, I am neither party- I am very single at the moment)... Anyway they have two children together (she will take custody of the children) but she is moving out as she doesn't want to be anywhere near the marital home.

    The mortgage is in his name, she isn't on it however she pays towards bills for the home. He has various loans in his name (car finance, loan for home improvement, CC) & she has a HP agreement for her car & a CC.

    Her mortgage advisor asked whether her husband would be giving her a share of the house so she can set up her own home & when she asked him he said he didn't have to as she wasn't on the deeds/mortgage & that if he gives her some equity from the house she would be liable for his debts.

    She is now scared that she is upping sticks & will be entitled to nothing. Can anyone advise as to whether she

    a) has a claim on equity in the house
    b) will she be liable for debts in his name?

    Thanks in advance...
Page 1
    • elsien
    • By elsien 29th Sep 16, 9:06 AM
    • 13,653 Posts
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    elsien
    • #2
    • 29th Sep 16, 9:06 AM
    • #2
    • 29th Sep 16, 9:06 AM
    How long have they been married?
    It's not just about the equity in the house when it comes to marital assets, it's both parties savings/investments, pension pots etc that can be thrown into the mix. His being the sole name on the deeds is not relevant. The starting point is 50/50 (depending on length of marriage) but then other factors can affect this, such as who the children live with.
    She won't become liable for his debts, but I'm not sure if/how either of their debts would be taken into account when deciding an equitable split.
    Have they considered mediation? It's not just the finances, it's making an arrangement for the children to spend time with him as well.
    Last edited by elsien; 29-09-2016 at 9:12 AM.
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • Oakdene
    • By Oakdene 29th Sep 16, 9:12 AM
    • 500 Posts
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    Oakdene
    • #3
    • 29th Sep 16, 9:12 AM
    • #3
    • 29th Sep 16, 9:12 AM
    How long have they been married?
    It's not just about the house when it comes to marital assets, it's both parties savings/investments, pension pots etc that can be thrown into the mix. His being the sole name on the deeds is not relevant.
    She won't become liable for his debts, but I'm not sure if/how either of their debts would be taken into account when deciding an equitable split.
    Have they considered mediation? It's not just the finances, it's making an arrangement for the children to spend time with him as well.
    Originally posted by elsien
    They have been married for quite a few years, definitely over 5. He is in a much higher earning role which has company shares & very good pension.

    She has tried to work through this before but from what she has told me his continued behavior means she has no option but to leave for her own happiness & sanity.

    He is, despite his shortcomings as a husband, a good after so I don't think they will have much problems in terms of seeing the children.
    • elsien
    • By elsien 29th Sep 16, 9:19 AM
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    elsien
    • #4
    • 29th Sep 16, 9:19 AM
    • #4
    • 29th Sep 16, 9:19 AM
    He's already telling her porkies. With the best will in the world, if things get less amicable children can get caught in the middle - it's not just about him, it's about if things get fraught him knowing that his access isn't affected, and both being clear on where they stand.

    If they're not able to agree and it goes to court (which is best avoided if at all possible) they will have to try mediation first which necessitates full financial disclosure. Is he likely to try to hide money away somewhere? If so she might want to think about checking on this now.
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • Oakdene
    • By Oakdene 29th Sep 16, 9:27 AM
    • 500 Posts
    • 677 Thanks
    Oakdene
    • #5
    • 29th Sep 16, 9:27 AM
    • #5
    • 29th Sep 16, 9:27 AM

    If they're not able to agree and it goes to court (which is best avoided if at all possible) they will have to try mediation first which necessitates full financial disclosure. Is he likely to try to hide money away somewhere? If so she might want to think about checking on this now.
    Originally posted by elsien
    Thanks, I will let her to know to try & get copies of any financial documents he has around the home...

    Shes just scared she is going to leave him & have nothing to start her life with in terms of money & setting up a home for her & her children
    • elsien
    • By elsien 29th Sep 16, 9:35 AM
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    elsien
    • #6
    • 29th Sep 16, 9:35 AM
    • #6
    • 29th Sep 16, 9:35 AM
    Eta - all the above is presuming she's looking to get divorced?
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • Oakdene
    • By Oakdene 29th Sep 16, 9:37 AM
    • 500 Posts
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    Oakdene
    • #7
    • 29th Sep 16, 9:37 AM
    • #7
    • 29th Sep 16, 9:37 AM
    Yes she will be looking to get divorced
    • elsien
    • By elsien 29th Sep 16, 9:50 AM
    • 13,653 Posts
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    elsien
    • #8
    • 29th Sep 16, 9:50 AM
    • #8
    • 29th Sep 16, 9:50 AM
    Reassure her that unless he's on the verge of bankruptcy or very good at hiding assets she's not going to end up with nothing.
    And he will need to pay maintenance for the children. Does she work?
    However depending on the agreements reached and the state of his finances (eg will he want to keep the house and buy her out, will it need to be sold, how much equity is in it) it might not be a quick process. So she might need an interim plan.
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • Oakdene
    • By Oakdene 29th Sep 16, 12:15 PM
    • 500 Posts
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    Oakdene
    • #9
    • 29th Sep 16, 12:15 PM
    • #9
    • 29th Sep 16, 12:15 PM
    Reassure her that unless he's on the verge of bankruptcy or very good at hiding assets she's not going to end up with nothing.
    And he will need to pay maintenance for the children. Does she work?
    However depending on the agreements reached and the state of his finances (eg will he want to keep the house and buy her out, will it need to be sold, how much equity is in it) it might not be a quick process. So she might need an interim plan.
    Originally posted by elsien
    I think the plan is for her to move back in with her folks for a month or two until things settle & she can think a bit clearer. She does indeed work & having spoken with her this morning she is going to try & get copies of any financial documents he has in & around the house.

    She wanted him to buy her out but he said that if that happens she will be responsible for his existing debts, however I can only see her being liable for half of the home improvement loan?
    • Tammykitty
    • By Tammykitty 29th Sep 16, 12:32 PM
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    Tammykitty
    I think all money and all debt is considered Marital assets on divorce.


    The starting point would therefore be a 50/50 spilt of the "net assets"


    Net Assets = House Value + Cash + Investments (etc) - Mortgage - Other debts
    • elsien
    • By elsien 29th Sep 16, 12:53 PM
    • 13,653 Posts
    • 33,106 Thanks
    elsien
    She might want a look at this guide.

    http://www.money.co.uk/guides/how-to-get-a-fair-financial-divorce-settlement.htm
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 29th Sep 16, 1:24 PM
    • 14,296 Posts
    • 36,409 Thanks
    FBaby
    I don't think she can have it both ways. She is indeed entitled to half the equity of the house (or possibly even more with a good solicitor) even if her name in not on the deeds but if he can prove one of the loan was for home improvement, then she can expect that this would be deducted from the equity before what she's entitled to is worked out.

    She needs to start thinking of how far she wants to take matters. Does she wants to go for 1/2 the equity of the house or more? Does she wants to go for his pension contribution? Is she happy to go for what she thinks is fair, or go for anything she can get? In the first instance, she can try to discuss things with him and come home with an agreement. Certainly the cheapest option. Or if she wants to try to get as much as she can, then she needs to get for a top marital lawyer, pay him a lot of money and let him do his job.
    • pinkshoes
    • By pinkshoes 29th Sep 16, 1:40 PM
    • 14,600 Posts
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    pinkshoes

    She wanted him to buy her out but he said that if that happens she will be responsible for his existing debts, however I can only see her being liable for half of the home improvement loan?
    Originally posted by Oakdene
    He is correct - they are married, so any debts and equity are shared.

    She could be entitled to half the equity in the house, but half the joint debt can then be deducted from this share.

    Is there any equity in the house?

    If he has a large pension, she will be entitled to a chunk of this if she has given up a career to look after the Kids. It depends how long of his pension pot was built up before they met.

    Likewise, he will be entitled to half of any her equity and liable for half her debts.

    As she has custody, he will need to pay child maintenance.

    This will all get very complicated, so best to see a solicitor.
    Should've = Should HAVE (not 'of')
    Would've = Would HAVE (not 'of')

    No, I am not perfect, but yes I do judge people on their use of basic English language. If you didn't know the above, then learn it! (If English is your second language, then you are forgiven!)
    • Oakdene
    • By Oakdene 29th Sep 16, 1:40 PM
    • 500 Posts
    • 677 Thanks
    Oakdene
    Thanks all, will have a look at the guide now...

    The house is worth around £190k & I know there is about £145k mortgage, she has said to her other half that all she wants is £10k
    • TBagpuss
    • By TBagpuss 29th Sep 16, 2:10 PM
    • 4,842 Posts
    • 6,345 Thanks
    TBagpuss
    Hi all

    I'd like to start by saying I have told my friend to get to a solicitor sharpish but she cant see one until late next week so I'm seeking info to help reassure her or to show her what will happen...

    A very close friend of mine is about to separate from her husband following him being unfaithful on a number of occasions. (This is not me, I am neither party- I am very single at the moment)... Anyway they have two children together (she will take custody of the children) but she is moving out as she doesn't want to be anywhere near the marital home.

    The mortgage is in his name, she isn't on it however she pays towards bills for the home. He has various loans in his name (car finance, loan for home improvement, CC) & she has a HP agreement for her car & a CC.

    Her mortgage advisor asked whether her husband would be giving her a share of the house so she can set up her own home & when she asked him he said he didn't have to as she wasn't on the deeds/mortgage & that if he gives her some equity from the house she would be liable for his debts.
    Originally posted by Oakdene
    She should register her Matrimonial Home Rights in the property immediately.(See: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/notice-of-home-rights-registration-hr1)


    Unless the marriage was very short, it's likely that she will be entitled to share of the equity.

    However, the cpourt (if it gets that far) has to look at the whole picture, so if the debts are equal to or greater than the equity there may be nothing left to split.


    She is now scared that she is upping sticks & will be entitled to nothing. Can anyone advise as to whether she

    a) has a claim on equity in the house
    b) will she be liable for debts in his name?

    Thanks in advance...
    She is not liable to any third party for any debt unless it is in joint names or she signed as a guarator.

    For debts in the sole name of one party, the court would look at how the debt was built up. If the money was used for the beenfit of both aprties (e.g. credit card debt where the card was used to pay for hpoushold bills, or for a family holiday) then the court will treat it as a matrimonial debt and take it into account when deciding how to split the assets.

    if the debt pre-dateed the relationship or was built up by hm for his sole bebenfot then it is less likely it will be taken into account.

    A court also looks at all of the relevant factos - includingthings like their respective ages, income and earning capacity, housing and other needs and the needs of any children. 50/50 uis the stating point but may not be the ultimate outcome.

    She should bear in mind that it is not up to her husband, and that she should not assume either that he knows what he is talking about 9unless he is divorce lawyer!) or that he has her interests at heart or is looking for a fair outcome.

    As well as the house, assets such as any pensions, savings , valuable items etc will also all be relevant, as will the any children of the family and their requirements and care.
    • Oakdene
    • By Oakdene 18th Oct 16, 2:49 PM
    • 500 Posts
    • 677 Thanks
    Oakdene
    Hi All

    Just a quick follow up, the seperation is well under way & the husband offered my friend a settlement of £35k to her which he wanted to raise by adding to the mortgage, something their lender was happy to do. However he very foolishly forgot that when he took the existing mortgage out there was a clause which stated that there can be no additional borrowing on the house for 7 years. The only way he can proceed is to pay a £10k penalty.

    He has now changed his tune & said ' if you want the house, I’ll see you in court then and you haven’t got a hope because my parents contributed to the deposit and they have said they will do a statement for it to be presented in court, so that you won’t get your hands on the house’

    Am I right in saying that if nothing exists on the title deeds to the property saying that upon sale of the house his parents get £xxx first then this cannot be enforced?
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 18th Oct 16, 3:26 PM
    • 11,958 Posts
    • 11,405 Thanks
    Guest101
    Hi All

    Just a quick follow up, the seperation is well under way & the husband offered my friend a settlement of £35k to her which he wanted to raise by adding to the mortgage, something their lender was happy to do. However he very foolishly forgot that when he took the existing mortgage out there was a clause which stated that there can be no additional borrowing on the house for 7 years. The only way he can proceed is to pay a £10k penalty.

    He has now changed his tune & said ' if you want the house, I’ll see you in court then and you haven’t got a hope because my parents contributed to the deposit and they have said they will do a statement for it to be presented in court, so that you won’t get your hands on the house’

    Am I right in saying that if nothing exists on the title deeds to the property saying that upon sale of the house his parents get £xxx first then this cannot be enforced?
    Originally posted by Oakdene


    Its complicated.


    The parents will also have signed to say the money was a gift...
    • Oakdene
    • By Oakdene 18th Oct 16, 3:27 PM
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    Oakdene
    Its complicated.


    The parents will also have signed to say the money was a gift...
    Originally posted by Guest101
    I dont think they did from what I have been told...
    • TonyMMM
    • By TonyMMM 18th Oct 16, 3:58 PM
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    TonyMMM
    And what does her solicitor advise ?
    • Oakdene
    • By Oakdene 18th Oct 16, 4:00 PM
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    Oakdene
    And what does her solicitor advise ?
    Originally posted by TonyMMM
    Nothing at the moment, this has all occurred in the last two hours so shes waiting to get appt with her solicitor
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