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  • FIRST POST
    • want2bmortgage3
    • By want2bmortgage3 28th Sep 16, 6:26 PM
    • 1,957Posts
    • 417Thanks
    want2bmortgage3
    3 years stamp duty refund ?
    • #1
    • 28th Sep 16, 6:26 PM
    3 years stamp duty refund ? 28th Sep 16 at 6:26 PM
    Hi there if I am buying a second property and cannot sell the first one at the same time, I know I will be charged the 3% surcharge. Can anyone tell me the rules of this, what makes you eligible for a refund if you sell the first property within the three years?
Page 1
    • G_M
    • By G_M 28th Sep 16, 6:29 PM
    • 41,877 Posts
    • 48,460 Thanks
    G_M
    • #2
    • 28th Sep 16, 6:29 PM
    • #2
    • 28th Sep 16, 6:29 PM
    ......what makes you eligible for a refund if you sell the first property within the three years?
    Originally posted by want2bmortgage3
    the fact of the sale, and the fact that both homs were your primary residence.
    • booksurr
    • By booksurr 28th Sep 16, 7:51 PM
    • 3,614 Posts
    • 3,996 Thanks
    booksurr
    • #3
    • 28th Sep 16, 7:51 PM
    • #3
    • 28th Sep 16, 7:51 PM
    there is a lot of online guidance, why can't you read it yourself if all you want is a list of rules

    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/stamp-duty-land-tax-buying-an-additional-residential-property

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/stamp-duty-land-tax-higher-rates-for-purchases-of-additional-residential-properties
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 28th Sep 16, 8:45 PM
    • 7,561 Posts
    • 8,165 Thanks
    AnotherJoe
    • #4
    • 28th Sep 16, 8:45 PM
    • #4
    • 28th Sep 16, 8:45 PM
    Hi there if I am buying a second property and cannot sell the first one at the same time, I know I will be charged the 3% surcharge. Can anyone tell me the rules of this, what makes you eligible for a refund if you sell the first property within the three years?
    Originally posted by want2bmortgage3
    What makes it eligible is selling the first one within 3 years !
    • want2bmortgage3
    • By want2bmortgage3 29th Sep 16, 10:45 AM
    • 1,957 Posts
    • 417 Thanks
    want2bmortgage3
    • #5
    • 29th Sep 16, 10:45 AM
    • #5
    • 29th Sep 16, 10:45 AM
    What if you are letting the first one but can't sell it and buy another to live in, then sell the first one within three years?
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 29th Sep 16, 10:57 AM
    • 6,067 Posts
    • 5,817 Thanks
    davidmcn
    • #6
    • 29th Sep 16, 10:57 AM
    • #6
    • 29th Sep 16, 10:57 AM
    What if you are letting the first one but can't sell it and buy another to live in, then sell the first one within three years?
    Originally posted by want2bmortgage3
    Then there's no entitlement to a refund. The concession is only for replacing your main residence, not buying one on top of an existing BTL.
    • Bluebirdman of Alcathays
    • By Bluebirdman of Alcathays 29th Sep 16, 11:18 AM
    • 2,792 Posts
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    Bluebirdman of Alcathays
    • #7
    • 29th Sep 16, 11:18 AM
    • #7
    • 29th Sep 16, 11:18 AM
    You aren't replacing your home, so no refund. It's very clear in the guidance that booksurr linked to, read it!
    • want2bmortgage3
    • By want2bmortgage3 29th Sep 16, 6:35 PM
    • 1,957 Posts
    • 417 Thanks
    want2bmortgage3
    • #8
    • 29th Sep 16, 6:35 PM
    • #8
    • 29th Sep 16, 6:35 PM
    Thanks for that , if the first one is let but not with a buy to let mortgage will it still be the same?
    • x-caitlin-x
    • By x-caitlin-x 29th Sep 16, 8:38 PM
    • 237 Posts
    • 205 Thanks
    x-caitlin-x
    • #9
    • 29th Sep 16, 8:38 PM
    • #9
    • 29th Sep 16, 8:38 PM
    Thanks for that , if the first one is let but not with a buy to let mortgage will it still be the same?
    Originally posted by want2bmortgage3
    Yes. The type of mortgage makes no difference, or even if you have a mortgage at all. You're not replacing your home - that's the key point. It's got nothing to do with BTL.
    • booksurr
    • By booksurr 29th Sep 16, 11:23 PM
    • 3,614 Posts
    • 3,996 Thanks
    booksurr
    Thanks for that , if the first one is let but not with a buy to let mortgage will it still be the same?
    Originally posted by want2bmortgage3
    although able to write, it appears the OP is unable to read?

    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/stamp-duty-land-tax-buying-an-additional-residential-property

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/stamp-duty-land-tax-higher-rates-for-purchases-of-additional-residential-properties
    • Jonathanmerrett
    • By Jonathanmerrett 10th Apr 17, 5:08 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Jonathanmerrett
    Reselling Additional Property
    Hi there,

    I've read all the government blurb that I can find but can't find the answer to this one;

    If I fail to sell my initial main residence in the 3 years after the purchase of the new main residence, can I choose to sell the new main residence instead and still receive the refund?
    I've got a few years yet but just want to know if things get desperate if I could consider putting both on the market and see which one sells first.

    Any advice or thoughts on where else to look/ask would be gratefully received.

    Thanks
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 10th Apr 17, 5:33 PM
    • 11,089 Posts
    • 15,345 Thanks
    Pixie5740
    Hi there,

    I've read all the government blurb that I can find but can't find the answer to this one;

    If I fail to sell my initial main residence in the 3 years after the purchase of the new main residence, can I choose to sell the new main residence instead and still receive the refund?
    I've got a few years yet but just want to know if things get desperate if I could consider putting both on the market and see which one sells first.

    Any advice or thoughts on where else to look/ask would be gratefully received.

    Thanks
    Originally posted by Jonathanmerrett
    No, it doesn't work like that. You need to sell your old main residence within 3 years of purchasing a new main residence in order to qualify for the refund.
    Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds nought and six, result misery.
    • saajan_12
    • By saajan_12 11th Apr 17, 9:54 AM
    • 953 Posts
    • 648 Thanks
    saajan_12
    Hi there,

    I've read all the government blurb that I can find but can't find the answer to this one;- really? It gives countless examples and clearly states it is about selling one and buying ANOTHER.

    If I fail to sell my initial main residence in the 3 years after the purchase of the new main residence, can I choose to sell the new main residence instead and still receive the refund?- no, that's essentially buying and selling within 3 years. The point is if you sell your MAIN residence and buy ANOTHER house to be your new main residence, the transacitons may overlap by upto 3 years.
    Originally posted by Jonathanmerrett
    Rather than asking about a series of scenarios, post the background of dates when you lived in the old / new place, when it was let, when new was purchased etc.
    • Jonathanmerrett
    • By Jonathanmerrett 19th Apr 17, 12:05 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Jonathanmerrett
    Rather than asking about a series of scenarios, post the background of dates when you lived in the old / new place, when it was let, when new was purchased etc.
    Originally posted by saajan_12
    Yes really. At no point do any of the examples cover this scenario. All they mention is whether you are replacing your main residence. Arguably if I buy property 2 to replace property 1 and make that my main residence, then fail to sell the property 1 so sell property 2 and move back in to property 1, I have again "replaced my main residence" and therefore *could* be eligible for a refund of the additional SDLT. I'm obviously not saying one way or another whether it would wash with HMRC, hence the post. HMRC haven't been particularly helpful on the phone, just refer to the original 36 page document and say to write in to ask any further questions, which I have done but am yet to receive a reply.

    Thanks for taking the time to reply though.
    • Jonathanmerrett
    • By Jonathanmerrett 19th Apr 17, 12:11 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Jonathanmerrett
    Has anyone else considered buying a very cheap second property and making that their main residence, before then selling this and replacing it with a much more expensive main residence? This seems like it would be a way of vastly reducing the additional SDLT charge applicable if you have the flexibility to reside in the cheaper property for long enough to class it as your main residence. Possibly a good option for those looking to keep their existing property as a buy-to-let property.
    • Victor the Gink
    • By Victor the Gink 19th Apr 17, 12:21 PM
    • 153 Posts
    • 287 Thanks
    Victor the Gink
    Has anyone else considered buying a very cheap second property and making that their main residence, before then selling this and replacing it with a much more expensive main residence? This seems like it would be a way of vastly reducing the additional SDLT charge applicable if you have the flexibility to reside in the cheaper property for long enough to class it as your main residence. Possibly a good option for those looking to keep their existing property as a buy-to-let property.
    Originally posted by Jonathanmerrett
    Not a good option. By definition, what you are doing has no permanence - you have yourself admitted that it is just a ruse to avoid tax. There is plenty of case law where people have lived, full time, in a property for 8 months or more, but HMRC have successfully proved that the arrangement had no permanence, and as such should not be allowable.


    http://www.accountingweb.co.uk/tax/personal-tax/principal-private-residence-relief-is-not-automatic
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 19th Apr 17, 12:28 PM
    • 6,067 Posts
    • 5,817 Thanks
    davidmcn
    Arguably if I buy property 2 to replace property 1 and make that my main residence, then fail to sell the property 1 so sell property 2 and move back in to property 1, I have again "replaced my main residence" and therefore *could* be eligible for a refund of the additional SDLT.
    Originally posted by Jonathanmerrett
    Really not sure how you've come up with this argument.
    You can only claim a refund of the SDLT on property 2 on the basis that you've sold property 1. You can't claim a refund of the SDLT on property 2 on the basis that you've sold property 2.
    • Jonathanmerrett
    • By Jonathanmerrett 21st Apr 17, 2:40 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Jonathanmerrett
    What about 8 years? And tax avoidance is legal isn't it? Ruse or no ruse.
    • Victor the Gink
    • By Victor the Gink 21st Apr 17, 2:51 PM
    • 153 Posts
    • 287 Thanks
    Victor the Gink
    What about 8 years? And tax avoidance is legal isn't it? Ruse or no ruse.
    Originally posted by Jonathanmerrett
    You would buy a cheap residence and live in it for 8 years to avoid tax?
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