Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@. Skimlinks & other affiliated links are turned on

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • bretts
    • By bretts 26th Sep 16, 10:49 AM
    • 450Posts
    • 51Thanks
    bretts
    Being forced into leaving the job
    • #1
    • 26th Sep 16, 10:49 AM
    Being forced into leaving the job 26th Sep 16 at 10:49 AM
    Hi

    I have been working with a company since last 15 years, which is now on the verge of closing down, I dont know when but it should soon, Considering I have been here for so long I had an open discussion as to what is it that future holds for us as I am the only earning member in a family of 4. They did not say anything except that we are trying, after a few weeks they did not pay me my salary and they have been delaying it by upto a month every month, so this end of september I am due 2 months of salary. I have told them clearly I have no money to pay for my child's nursery but they did not pay so I started looking for a job. I have got one offer now and I might take it but I know they will not pay my outstanding salary or even some expenses that I did for the chairman of the company, I will loose all my redundancy had they closed down. Is there any other way I can sue them for breach of my contract and creating environment which forced me to leave the job as I do not want to ideally leave it, I have about 60 days holidays left as they never approved any holidays when I asked for them in last 3 years.
Page 1
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 26th Sep 16, 10:51 AM
    • 12,052 Posts
    • 11,476 Thanks
    Guest101
    • #2
    • 26th Sep 16, 10:51 AM
    • #2
    • 26th Sep 16, 10:51 AM
    Once the company goes into administration / insolvency / etc.


    You will be paid your outstanding wage + 28 days holiday + redundancy.
    • bretts
    • By bretts 26th Sep 16, 11:04 AM
    • 450 Posts
    • 51 Thanks
    bretts
    • #3
    • 26th Sep 16, 11:04 AM
    • #3
    • 26th Sep 16, 11:04 AM
    Hi Yes thats true but if they dont go into administration or insolvency, I loose all my redundancy right? Hence checking if there is any other way of getting that money out of the company as they have forced me to leave by not paying me or giving me the holidays i am due to get.
    • duchy
    • By duchy 26th Sep 16, 11:14 AM
    • 17,877 Posts
    • 45,223 Thanks
    duchy
    • #4
    • 26th Sep 16, 11:14 AM
    • #4
    • 26th Sep 16, 11:14 AM
    Small claims court.
    If they don't go bust you get a judgement against them , if they do you get your redundancy from the government. Whether they pay up on the judgement is another matter.

    The big question is can you afford to sit it out til you get a court date or they go under ?
    I Would Rather Climb A Mountain Than Crawl Into A Hole

    Apparently having a "Quirky and Hipster" wedding
    • ACG
    • By ACG 26th Sep 16, 11:33 AM
    • 13,502 Posts
    • 6,648 Thanks
    ACG
    • #5
    • 26th Sep 16, 11:33 AM
    • #5
    • 26th Sep 16, 11:33 AM
    I dont think you would be entitled to redundancy pay if you leave by choice regardless of the situation.

    I would also be surprised if you can claim for 60 days holiday pay. Most contracts stipulate something along the lines of use it or lose it. No harm putting it in your claim but I would not hold my breath on that one...the more evidence you have to say holidays were declined repeatedly the more chance you have but just dont bank on getting it.

    I suspect your most likely to get any wages due plus holidays from this year.
    • duchy
    • By duchy 26th Sep 16, 11:45 AM
    • 17,877 Posts
    • 45,223 Thanks
    duchy
    • #6
    • 26th Sep 16, 11:45 AM
    • #6
    • 26th Sep 16, 11:45 AM
    The OP would also be entitled to statutory redundancy pay from the government scheme.
    I Would Rather Climb A Mountain Than Crawl Into A Hole

    Apparently having a "Quirky and Hipster" wedding
    • Undervalued
    • By Undervalued 26th Sep 16, 11:54 AM
    • 2,108 Posts
    • 1,787 Thanks
    Undervalued
    • #7
    • 26th Sep 16, 11:54 AM
    • #7
    • 26th Sep 16, 11:54 AM
    Hi Yes thats true but if they dont go into administration or insolvency, I loose all my redundancy right? Hence checking if there is any other way of getting that money out of the company as they have forced me to leave by not paying me or giving me the holidays i am due to get.
    Originally posted by bretts
    I am unclear if you are still working there or have left?

    If you leave of your own accord you lose any entitlement to redundancy. You might just possibly have a claim for constructive unfair dismissal but such claims are incredibly difficult to win.

    You would certainly have a much simpler claim for unpaid wages and untaken holiday. You could also sue for any unavoidable losses cause by them failing to pay on time.

    However winning any such claim is a moot point unless there are assets to go after if you have to take enforcement action. Is it a limited company, partnership or sole trader?

    If you have not left of your own accord and have actually been made redundant then yes, ultimately you can claim the bare minimum from the government. As you say though, this gets complex if they have not formally gone bust and you may need some expert advice.
    • Takeaway_Addict
    • By Takeaway_Addict 26th Sep 16, 12:21 PM
    • 5,389 Posts
    • 6,084 Thanks
    Takeaway_Addict
    • #8
    • 26th Sep 16, 12:21 PM
    • #8
    • 26th Sep 16, 12:21 PM
    Hi

    I have been working with a company since last 15 years, which is now on the verge of closing down, I dont know when but it should soon, Considering I have been here for so long I had an open discussion as to what is it that future holds for us as I am the only earning member in a family of 4. They did not say anything except that we are trying, after a few weeks they did not pay me my salary and they have been delaying it by upto a month every month, so this end of september I am due 2 months of salary. I have told them clearly I have no money to pay for my child's nursery but they did not pay so I started looking for a job. I have got one offer now and I might take it but I know they will not pay my outstanding salary or even some expenses that I did for the chairman of the company, I will loose all my redundancy had they closed down. Is there any other way I can sue them for breach of my contract and creating environment which forced me to leave the job as I do not want to ideally leave it, I have about 60 days holidays left as they never approved any holidays when I asked for them in last 3 years.
    Originally posted by bretts
    They have no money and you're going to sue them to get what exactly?

    Surely a job that pays is better than one that doesn't? Redundancy money isn't a little prize at the end of service, it is there to tide you over between jobs.

    Once you are secured in a new job then I would suggest you push for the monies owed but fully expect to get very little IMO
    Don't trust a forum for advice. Get proper paid advice. Any advice given should always be checked
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 26th Sep 16, 12:54 PM
    • 2,735 Posts
    • 4,278 Thanks
    sangie595
    • #9
    • 26th Sep 16, 12:54 PM
    • #9
    • 26th Sep 16, 12:54 PM
    The OP would also be entitled to statutory redundancy pay from the government scheme.
    Originally posted by duchy
    No, they wouldn't. They have another job to go to, and they would be stupid to sit on that offer and not take it when they may see little or no money for months yet. And when they finally do become eligible for the government scheme, they may not be able to find other employment for a long time. Jobs can be difficult to obtain.

    And OP - you will never get 60 days holiday from anyone. Use them or lose them. You have lost anything that doesn't accrue from the current holiday year. That is the law, not contractual. The government scheme will never pay for 60 days, and it is not a debt that you can pursue because you are not entitled in law to carry them forward.

    I agree that unpaid wages and holiday pay are currently actionable, but that the chances of seeing any of them are low even if you go to court. And the government scheme will not pay for these either if you leave - the minute you leave then you become a creditor, not an employee, and your priority for payment slips down the list. If there are any assets left you might see a fraction of the money owed, but I doubt it. On that basis, whether it is worth throwing good money after bad in court fees, is a choice you would have to make.

    And there is no chance of a constructive dismissal claim (even if there was any prospect of someone to sue!). You would have to complete the whole grievance process first, then make a claim (which costs a lot of money in itself), and I doubt the employer will still exist by then. Yes, it's a breach of contract, but unfair dismissal? The employer is going under. That much is clear. They aren't forcing you out, they are heading for bankruptcy.

    Cut your losses, take the new job, and then decide what is worth pursuing.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 26th Sep 16, 2:02 PM
    • 12,052 Posts
    • 11,476 Thanks
    Guest101
    No, they wouldn't. They have another job to go to, and they would be stupid to sit on that offer and not take it when they may see little or no money for months yet. And when they finally do become eligible for the government scheme, they may not be able to find other employment for a long time. Jobs can be difficult to obtain.

    And OP - you will never get 60 days holiday from anyone. Use them or lose them. You have lost anything that doesn't accrue from the current holiday year. That is the law, not contractual. The government scheme will never pay for 60 days, and it is not a debt that you can pursue because you are not entitled in law to carry them forward.

    I agree that unpaid wages and holiday pay are currently actionable, but that the chances of seeing any of them are low even if you go to court. And the government scheme will not pay for these either if you leave - the minute you leave then you become a creditor, not an employee, and your priority for payment slips down the list. If there are any assets left you might see a fraction of the money owed, but I doubt it. On that basis, whether it is worth throwing good money after bad in court fees, is a choice you would have to make.

    And there is no chance of a constructive dismissal claim (even if there was any prospect of someone to sue!). You would have to complete the whole grievance process first, then make a claim (which costs a lot of money in itself), and I doubt the employer will still exist by then. Yes, it's a breach of contract, but unfair dismissal? The employer is going under. That much is clear. They aren't forcing you out, they are heading for bankruptcy.

    Cut your losses, take the new job, and then decide what is worth pursuing.
    Originally posted by sangie595


    Will just say that despite leaving ahead of insolvency in a previous role (similar no wages paid) the OR referred me to the insolvency service for payment (both holiday and wages) which was paid.


    Whether an oversight or not, i'm unsure.


    possibly poor record keeping by the company - so I was still 'on the books'
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 26th Sep 16, 6:15 PM
    • 2,735 Posts
    • 4,278 Thanks
    sangie595
    Probably the latter. If the resignation is active at the time of insolvency I.e you have already left, the money owed should have been treated as a company debt. It is only existing empires at the time of insolvency who are due payment, and they are a priority - so what current employees are owed comes out of any remaining assets first before creditors are paid.
    • steampowered
    • By steampowered 26th Sep 16, 7:36 PM
    • 549 Posts
    • 477 Thanks
    steampowered
    If a company is on the brink and has lots of creditors, it is sometimes a matter of 'whoever shouts loudest gets paid first'. It may be worth saying that you will stop work if you don't get paid immediately, perhaps even threatening to sue or even putting in a small claim for the outstanding wages.

    This will move you towards the front of their queue of outstanding debts to be paid ... although in the meantime I'd still be looking for another job!!!

    I'm not sure you'll get 60 days holiday pay ... my understanding is that there isn't a legal right to carry it over from one year to the next.
    • Doshwaster
    • By Doshwaster 27th Sep 16, 1:00 PM
    • 4,425 Posts
    • 3,541 Thanks
    Doshwaster
    I'd start looking for another job immediately and then worry about the legal situation afterwards. I've walked away from significant redundancy packages before as once the ship starts sinking the best thing you can do is jump to safety.
    • bretts
    • By bretts 27th Sep 16, 2:50 PM
    • 450 Posts
    • 51 Thanks
    bretts
    Hi

    Thanks a lot for all the replies, just wanted to clear one thing, there are still few people here sitting at 200k+ jobs and they are getting paid so its not sure if the company will definitely go bust, the management is not clear and they are probably not required by law to make things clear to me which is fair enough, I am only worried that I might loose my salary and expenses done for the chairman of the company. I have accepted the offer in other place already and not waiting for them to go bust, but my only concern is my money stuck with them. Had it not been the case I would have just stopped working at end of this month and put the reason for leaving as due to non payment of my salary on time and hence breach of contract, this is what the lawyer of our company did so he said I could get out without giving a notice. The contract does state that I should be handing my notice in but if i do so they will definitely never pay me anything(which is what they have done with everyone who has left so far after giving in proper notice), I was going to try to use the next month to push them as hard as possible to pay me else I will not be able to continue as effectively I am paying to come in and travelling in london is not cheap.
    Last edited by bretts; 27-09-2016 at 2:54 PM.
    • bretts
    • By bretts 10th Oct 16, 10:54 AM
    • 450 Posts
    • 51 Thanks
    bretts
    Hi

    I have accepted an offer somewhere else and I will be starting there next month. After a big fight with management they did pay me my salary but I know this will keep on going. The owner of the business and the business itself owes me some money as expenses that I mentioned earlier. I am going to ask them to pay me else I will stop coming in to work. They need me desperately to stay as I have spoken to them about leaving and they have panicked earlier. But if they do not pay me, can I hold on to all the passwords till they pay me in full or am I not allowed to do that. That is the only thing I can use for them to pay me, I know references are important but I dont see this company going beyond 2 months.
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 10th Oct 16, 2:31 PM
    • 2,735 Posts
    • 4,278 Thanks
    sangie595
    You mean, is it OK to blackmail my employer by keeping something that belongs to them? I think you know the answer to that! Two wrongs do not make a right.
    • bretts
    • By bretts 10th Oct 16, 2:38 PM
    • 450 Posts
    • 51 Thanks
    bretts
    Hi

    Thanks for the reply, but are they right to keep my money and not pay me as I know if I give them everything they will not pay me and it is a big amount. I know that's why you said two wrongs dont make a right but its sad to know I cant do anything except put a case against them in which chances of me winning are very less as they might end up going down sooner or later.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

4,211Posts Today

6,523Users online

Martin's Twitter