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  • FIRST POST
    • northwest1965
    • By northwest1965 25th Sep 16, 4:19 PM
    • 1,719Posts
    • 4,481Thanks
    northwest1965
    Key Safe, are they safe?
    • #1
    • 25th Sep 16, 4:19 PM
    Key Safe, are they safe? 25th Sep 16 at 4:19 PM
    We're looking into this. Are they really safe? It wouldn't be fitted anywhere near a door and not facing a road or pathway.

    There is only one on the market that I can see that is police approved.
    Loved our trip to the West Coast USA. Death Valley is the place to go!
Page 2
    • Biggles
    • By Biggles 30th Oct 16, 8:47 AM
    • 7,269 Posts
    • 4,683 Thanks
    Biggles
    Post 9 actually buts who's counting...........
    Originally posted by firefox1956
    How very odd, you're right. Maybe a couple have been deleted????

    Would it be less than that - assuming you didn't have to press the buttons in the correct order?

    210 combinations?
    Originally posted by pete-20-11
    Yes, something like that. That's why there are pros and cons when it comes to hiding them out of sight, which is the usual advice. If they're visible, everybody knows where your key is. But, if it's tucked away out of sight, someone could have time to crack it without anyone seeing what they're up to.
    • alanq
    • By alanq 1st Nov 16, 1:43 AM
    • 3,525 Posts
    • 2,253 Thanks
    alanq
    A box claiming to be the only police approved one claims over 4000 key combinations. (actually 4096)

    https://keysafe.co.uk/c500-keysafe.html#product-tab-features

    Each key can be used no more than once and the order of entry does not matter.
    Last edited by alanq; 01-11-2016 at 2:39 AM.
    • pete-20-11
    • By pete-20-11 1st Nov 16, 7:45 PM
    • 164 Posts
    • 111 Thanks
    pete-20-11
    A box claiming to be the only police approved one claims over 4000 key combinations. (actually 4096)

    https://keysafe.co.uk/c500-keysafe.html#product-tab-features

    Each key can be used no more than once and the order of entry does not matter.
    Originally posted by alanq
    I'm not sure I agree with what they are saying!

    If each key can only be pressed once and the order is not important, the total combinations should be 2508.

    792 + (5 out of 12)
    924 + (6 out of 12)
    792 (7 out of 12)

    https://www.hackmath.net/en/calculator/combinations-and-permutations?n=12&k=5&order=0&repeat=0
    • alanq
    • By alanq 2nd Nov 16, 1:50 AM
    • 3,525 Posts
    • 2,253 Thanks
    alanq
    If each key can only be pressed once and the order is not important, the total combinations should be 2508.
    792 + (5 out of 12)
    924 + (6 out of 12)
    792 (7 out of 12)
    Originally posted by pete-20-11
    Thanks for the handy link which I have used for the following.

    1 + (0 out of 12)
    12 + (1 out of 12)
    66 + (2 out of 12)
    220 + (3 out of 12)
    495 + (4 out of 12)
    792 + (5 out of 12)
    924 + (6 out of 12)
    792 + (7 out of 12)
    495 + (8 out of 12)
    220 + (9 out of 12)
    66 + (10 out of 12)
    12 + (11 out of 12)
    1 (12 out of 12)
    = 4096

    Using 5,6 or 7 key combinations is recommended not mandatory.
    Using a no key combination is definitely not recommended!
    Last edited by alanq; 02-11-2016 at 1:54 AM.
    • ICATQ
    • By ICATQ 2nd Nov 16, 2:11 PM
    • 586 Posts
    • 557 Thanks
    ICATQ
    Either type is more secure than putting the key under a mat or a flower pot
    • pete-20-11
    • By pete-20-11 2nd Nov 16, 8:15 PM
    • 164 Posts
    • 111 Thanks
    pete-20-11
    Thanks for the handy link which I have used for the following.

    1 + (0 out of 12)
    12 + (1 out of 12)
    66 + (2 out of 12)
    220 + (3 out of 12)
    495 + (4 out of 12)
    792 + (5 out of 12)
    924 + (6 out of 12)
    792 + (7 out of 12)
    495 + (8 out of 12)
    220 + (9 out of 12)
    66 + (10 out of 12)
    12 + (11 out of 12)
    1 (12 out of 12)
    = 4096

    Using 5,6 or 7 key combinations is recommended not mandatory.
    Using a no key combination is definitely not recommended!
    Originally posted by alanq
    Ahh, I missed the bit about 5-7 being recommended.
    • loopy_lass
    • By loopy_lass 4th Nov 16, 12:13 AM
    • 1,526 Posts
    • 553 Thanks
    loopy_lass
    key safe
    Either type is more secure than putting the key under a mat or a flower pot
    Originally posted by ICATQ
    my old dad use to put the key under the mat outside the back door with a note on the back door saying key under mat that was in the 1970s though.

    his best one was leaving the key under the mat and the note on the kitchen table ,... bless him
    THE CHAINS OF HABIT ARE TOO WEAK TO BE FELT UNTIL THEY ARE TOO STRONG TO BE BROKEN...
    • macman
    • By macman 22nd Nov 16, 6:14 PM
    • 40,697 Posts
    • 16,565 Thanks
    macman
    This may be stating the obvious, but they are only as secure as the wall they are fixed to. So don't fix them in such a fashion as to make it easy for someone to jemmy the whole thing off the wall and then force open the box at their leisure. In most cases this means fixing it to a solid masonry wall.
    No free lunch, and no free laptop
    • northwest1965
    • By northwest1965 25th Jan 17, 5:44 PM
    • 1,719 Posts
    • 4,481 Thanks
    northwest1965
    Mums key safe was fitted today. This was done through her care package with the council. They out source all these sorts of things. I am disgusted at this

    [IMG][/IMG]
    Loved our trip to the West Coast USA. Death Valley is the place to go!
    • Mr.Generous
    • By Mr.Generous 25th Jan 17, 6:16 PM
    • 1,506 Posts
    • 2,153 Thanks
    Mr.Generous
    I'd rather try and break in via a window or door than get inside a decent key safe, they are very secure. We have been paid to get into one that failed so carers couldn't get in to see a patient and daughter was in work miles away panicking, and tried to remove one from a property we bought. They are safe enough. If you have secure bars on all your doors and windows, a moat and a drawbridge then the keysafe might be your weakest link.
    • treliac
    • By treliac 24th Feb 17, 11:42 PM
    • 4,319 Posts
    • 13,944 Thanks
    treliac
    They are fine, secure and reliable. Just best to site them where they cannot be obviously seen by passers by or casual callers, if possible.
    • Rosieandjim
    • By Rosieandjim 25th Feb 17, 9:04 PM
    • 39 Posts
    • 47 Thanks
    Rosieandjim
    Has there been any statistics around how many houses have been broken into via these? Having worked on the community for 15 years some time ago I never came across one, and there were many fitted.


    I don't think burglars would want to hang around the front of a property fiddling with a combination lock.


    Most thefts are committed by a carer within the home and these have come to light in the media.
    Last edited by Rosieandjim; 25-02-2017 at 9:08 PM. Reason: added info
    • ThinkingOutLoud
    • By ThinkingOutLoud 3rd Mar 17, 1:29 PM
    • 1,022 Posts
    • 803 Thanks
    ThinkingOutLoud
    So I recognise cost is a factor.

    But take a look at (replaced link due to issue) http://www.safewise.com/blog/finding-the-perfect-electronic-door-lock-for-your-home/

    Seems insurer approved if the right lock is fitted and has a few advantages including the 5 minute delay for failed attempts.

    Also the "extra" codes let you give different carers/support agencies etc their own number (albeit that reduces the number of possible till you got lucky. ). But much easier to coordinate if one carer changes - you don't have to tell the others a new number - only the new one.

    No idea if any good. There are much higher end solutions. But this seemed worth consideration.
    Last edited by ThinkingOutLoud; 03-03-2017 at 3:13 PM. Reason: Replaced errant link with new one.
    I am just thinking out loud - nothing I say should be relied upon!
    I do however reserve the right to be correct by accident.
    • alanq
    • By alanq 3rd Mar 17, 3:07 PM
    • 3,525 Posts
    • 2,253 Thanks
    alanq
    The link is broken.

    Is this the one that you wanted?

    http://www.mycrimeprevention.co.uk/whats-new/crime-prevention-products/keyless-entry-door-lock
    Last edited by alanq; 03-03-2017 at 3:10 PM.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Budgeting and Bank Accounts, Savings & Investments, Food Shopping and Over 50s MoneySaving boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge threads there. Any views are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com. Board guides are not moderators. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
    • ThinkingOutLoud
    • By ThinkingOutLoud 3rd Mar 17, 3:13 PM
    • 1,022 Posts
    • 803 Thanks
    ThinkingOutLoud
    The link is broken.
    Originally posted by alanq
    Thanks. You are right sorry. Not sure what happened as copied and pasted.That said that link is getting flagged as risky by my firewall now.

    Here is similar post - http://www.safewise.com/blog/finding-the-perfect-electronic-door-lock-for-your-home/
    I am just thinking out loud - nothing I say should be relied upon!
    I do however reserve the right to be correct by accident.
    • PasturesNew
    • By PasturesNew 3rd Mar 17, 3:17 PM
    • 58,634 Posts
    • 337,667 Thanks
    PasturesNew
    The one we had was a push button one and used a letter and then four numbers.
    Sometimes it was a bit temperamental though and you had to start again.
    We got it for carers.
    • Alter ego
    • By Alter ego 8th Mar 17, 7:04 PM
    • 1,943 Posts
    • 1,870 Thanks
    Alter ego
    The one we had was a push button one and used a letter and then four numbers.
    Sometimes it was a bit temperamental though and you had to start again.
    We got it for carers.
    Originally posted by PasturesNew
    Was the letter c ? - clear
    Ignore me if you like, it's not the real me anyway.
    • simonineaston
    • By simonineaston 11th Mar 17, 8:58 AM
    • 65 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    simonineaston
    I've had one (MasterLock) on my wall for a few years. Although it isn't readily visible from the street, being under the cap stone of the front wall, and out of direct line of sight from anyone on the pavement, my front yard is directly accessible from the street and I've always considered it to be a risk. However, it does its job - it's never been compromised or stolen, and I've had recourse to use the keys in it a couple of times.
    My neighbour opposite has to have reguar medical support several times a day and the carers use his key safe (also a Master Lock) several times a day, 24 / 7, and likewise he's never had any trouble with it, either malfunction or tampering.
    So for us two, in a busy, inner-city environement, they seems to work! :-)
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