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  • FIRST POST
    • HC77
    • By HC77 24th Sep 16, 9:04 AM
    • 12Posts
    • 12Thanks
    HC77
    VCS - Court
    • #1
    • 24th Sep 16, 9:04 AM
    VCS - Court 24th Sep 16 at 9:04 AM
    I'm after some advice.
    Today we received court papers regarding a parking ticket from VCS. Or the court letter where you can accept the claim finally or write down your defence.
    However, the ticket in question handed out was for an entirely different vehicle and VRN, no relation to ours.
    Gone down the replying and telling them this at every stage. Requested photos, which are just close ups of the inside of the car and don't show any parking notices.
    Main point of appeal being the ticket we have in hand isn't even for our car.
    Any help would be appreciated as they appear to be taking this all the way to court. I really enjoyed the previous email they sent saying our life would be ruined by a CCJ

    Thanks in advance and apologies if I've posted this in the wrong place etc.
Page 1
    • Dave_TH
    • By Dave_TH 24th Sep 16, 9:13 AM
    • 170 Posts
    • 153 Thanks
    Dave_TH
    • #2
    • 24th Sep 16, 9:13 AM
    • #2
    • 24th Sep 16, 9:13 AM
    if you enter the registration plate in here
    https://www.vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk/
    what car does it refer to, you may have to guess the make but try the popular ones first
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 24th Sep 16, 9:15 AM
    • 4,800 Posts
    • 5,914 Thanks
    beamerguy
    • #3
    • 24th Sep 16, 9:15 AM
    • #3
    • 24th Sep 16, 9:15 AM
    I'm after some advice.
    Today we received court papers regarding a parking ticket from VCS. Or the court letter where you can accept the claim finally or write down your defence.
    However, the ticket in question handed out was for an entirely different vehicle and VRN, no relation to ours.
    Gone down the replying and telling them this at every stage. Requested photos, which are just close ups of the inside of the car and don't show any parking notices.
    Main point of appeal being the ticket we have in hand isn't even for our car.
    Any help would be appreciated as they appear to be taking this all the way to court. I really enjoyed the previous email they sent saying our life would be ruined by a CCJ

    Thanks in advance and apologies if I've posted this in the wrong place etc.
    Originally posted by HC77
    I wonder how they have your address and name if the VRN is nothing to do with you.

    Which solicitor .. BWLEGAL by chance
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 24th Sep 16, 9:37 AM
    • 6,160 Posts
    • 4,967 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #4
    • 24th Sep 16, 9:37 AM
    • #4
    • 24th Sep 16, 9:37 AM
    Well, your defence in court should be short and sweet. Do not protest too much, let them dig themselves deeper into the hole they have created, and do not forget to claim for your wasted time due to their unreasonable behaviour.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 24th Sep 16, 12:05 PM
    • 44,262 Posts
    • 56,982 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #5
    • 24th Sep 16, 12:05 PM
    • #5
    • 24th Sep 16, 12:05 PM
    However, the ticket in question handed out was for an entirely different vehicle and VRN, no relation to ours.
    Sounds like the ticketer put someone else's PCN on your windscreen and yours on the other vehicle. That doesn't make your own void as such (I'm not saying it was OK). But a Judge will still likely want to debate the issue of the charge.

    So, read other BW Legal court defence threads like Xanthanan's one and dozens of others. Acknowledge the Service online as per the advice on other threads you will read.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 24-09-2016 at 7:50 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Marktheshark
    • By Marktheshark 24th Sep 16, 12:07 PM
    • 5,441 Posts
    • 6,805 Thanks
    Marktheshark
    • #6
    • 24th Sep 16, 12:07 PM
    • #6
    • 24th Sep 16, 12:07 PM
    Did they send a follow up notice to keeper with the correct details on.
    Brexit will become whatever they invent it to be.
    • HC77
    • By HC77 24th Sep 16, 1:37 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    HC77
    • #7
    • 24th Sep 16, 1:37 PM
    • #7
    • 24th Sep 16, 1:37 PM
    Yes, BW Legal.
    Their employee handed out tickets and handed out the wrong one to the wrong person.
    • HC77
    • By HC77 24th Sep 16, 1:40 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    HC77
    • #8
    • 24th Sep 16, 1:40 PM
    • #8
    • 24th Sep 16, 1:40 PM
    The ticket gives all the details for the car, it's just not for the right car. Therefore no ticket in hand for our car.
    • HC77
    • By HC77 24th Sep 16, 1:42 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    HC77
    • #9
    • 24th Sep 16, 1:42 PM
    • #9
    • 24th Sep 16, 1:42 PM
    Ticket wasn't put on the windscreen at all. It was handed out in person by VCS employee.
    Appealsd every stage stating we have a void ticket not relating to correct vehicle.
    Now they're going down the route of threats of court and CCJ. It's been sent for court proceedings now.
    • yotmon
    • By yotmon 24th Sep 16, 2:28 PM
    • 415 Posts
    • 574 Thanks
    yotmon
    Ticket wasn't put on the windscreen at all. It was handed out in person by VCS employee.
    Appealsd every stage stating we have a void ticket not relating to correct vehicle.
    Now they're going down the route of threats of court and CCJ. It's been sent for court proceedings now.
    Originally posted by HC77
    At least this prevents them from claiming that the tickets were tampered with. Also, they will have no photographic evidence showing the ticket attached to the vehicle.

    So, if it can be proved that a 'notice to driver' was not issued at the time, am I right in saying that a 'notice to keeper' should have been sent within 14 days. What date is on your Notice to keeper ?
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 24th Sep 16, 2:55 PM
    • 4,800 Posts
    • 5,914 Thanks
    beamerguy
    Ticket wasn't put on the windscreen at all. It was handed out in person by VCS employee.
    Appealsd every stage stating we have a void ticket not relating to correct vehicle.
    Now they're going down the route of threats of court and CCJ. It's been sent for court proceedings now.
    Originally posted by HC77
    So if the VSC guy was giving tickets personally to people as apposed to attaching to windscreen of the correct vehicle, someone else was given your ticket with your reg number so they will be having the same problem as you.
    That is if your car ever got a ticket or was due one

    Contact the DVLA about this enclosing the ticket.
    Tell them this is not your VRN or vehicle and request they confirm to you in writing you were never the registered keeper.
    Ask them to investigate as a matter of urgency what VCS are doing.

    Then advise BWLegal that you are not the keeper of this VRN and that you have requested the DVLA confirm this. Once you have this confirmation you will resume correspondence with them.
    Failure to comply and cease their threats will result in complaint to the SRA.
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 24th Sep 16, 3:38 PM
    • 6,160 Posts
    • 4,967 Thanks
    The Deep
    Contact the DVLA about this enclosing the ticket.
    Tell them this is not your VRN or vehicle and request they confirm to you in writing you were never the registered keeper.
    Ask them to investigate as a matter of urgency what VCS are doing.

    Then advise BWLegal that you are not the keeper of this VRN and that you have requested the DVLA confirm this. Once you have this confirmation you will resume correspondence with them.
    Failure to comply and cease their threats will result in complaint to the SRA.


    No no no, you have done enough, let sleeping dogs lie. If they take you to court they will have to explain why to a judge.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 24th Sep 16, 3:51 PM
    • 4,800 Posts
    • 5,914 Thanks
    beamerguy
    Contact the DVLA about this enclosing the ticket.
    Tell them this is not your VRN or vehicle and request they confirm to you in writing you were never the registered keeper.
    Ask them to investigate as a matter of urgency what VCS are doing.

    Then advise BWLegal that you are not the keeper of this VRN and that you have requested the DVLA confirm this. Once you have this confirmation you will resume correspondence with them.
    Failure to comply and cease their threats will result in complaint to the SRA.


    No no no, you have done enough, let sleeping dogs lie. If they take you to court they will have to explain why to a judge.
    Originally posted by The Deep
    Probably the OP does not want to go court and it's the BWL boys goodness knows, plus ..... the DVLA SHOULD LOOK AT VCS DOING THIS
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 24th Sep 16, 3:58 PM
    • 38,174 Posts
    • 76,352 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    At least this prevents them from claiming that the tickets were tampered with. Also, they will have no photographic evidence showing the ticket attached to the vehicle.

    So, if it can be proved that a 'notice to driver' was not issued at the time, am I right in saying that a 'notice to keeper' should have been sent within 14 days. What date is on your Notice to keeper ?
    Originally posted by yotmon
    That's an interesting point. If a windscreen ticket for the correct vehicle had been handed to the driver and no appeal made, the PPC would need to send a NTK between day 28 and 56. How can this have got to court without sending a NTK to the registered keeper unless the keeper has moved and not updated their records with the DVLA?

    If no windscreen ticket is given, then they have to issue a NTK within 14 days. In this case, they haven't done that. The haven't issued a windscreen ticket for the vehicle in question and haven't issued a NTK for it either.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 24-09-2016 at 4:00 PM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 24th Sep 16, 7:54 PM
    • 44,262 Posts
    • 56,982 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Ticket wasn't put on the windscreen at all. It was handed out in person by VCS employee.
    Appealsd every stage stating we have a void ticket not relating to correct vehicle.
    Now they're going down the route of threats of court and CCJ. It's been sent for court proceedings now.
    Originally posted by HC77
    OK - good - well that will be a decent defence point among all the other usual ones you will see on here (check out the threads from today, we have at least two BW Legal court defences being discussed right now). Well worth fighting, and complaining to the CSA and SRA about this 'robo-claim' as well as Sir Oliver Heald and Theresa May and your MP...as discussed in the Theresa May thread here.

    Read the links under the heading 'Small Claims?' in the NEWBIES thread and follow bargepole's advice about Acknowledgement of Service. Then - after doing the AoS as your FIRST STEP, to buy yourself more time - show us your defence based on all the zillions of others here.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • fil cad
    • By fil cad 24th Sep 16, 8:15 PM
    • 737 Posts
    • 581 Thanks
    fil cad
    What a bunch off camel jockeys VCS and BWLoosers are
    PPCs say its carpark management, BPA say its raising standards..... we all know its just about raking in the revenue.
    • HC77
    • By HC77 19th Mar 17, 7:52 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    HC77
    So for anyone who’s interested, I had the court hearing for this case last Tuesday, and I’m happy to say that I won! The judge ruled the case in my favour due to the car park having insufficient lighting. Here’s a quick summary of the day for anyone who may be in a similar situation to the one I was in and is a bit unsure of how the hearing process works:


    I arrived at the court house a bit before my hearing was due to take place and upon entering the waiting room I was asked by security to empty my pockets and was patted down etc. I then spoke to the receptionist and signed in. @Lamilad, who had very kindly volunteered to act as my lay rep for the hearing, arrived shortly after and signed in as well. @Lamilad and I then spoke to the solicitor that was representing VCS/BW Legal and informed her of some preliminary matters which questioned her right of audience in the hearing (the judge rejected these matters for reasons I’ll explain later). Before we could properly finish the conversation we were called into the judge’s room for the hearing. The judge started with the first point in my defence statement (this funnily enough was as far as he got into my statement) which basically stated that there weren’t enough signs and that none of them were appropriately illuminated for any ordinary person to have seen. He questioned the solicitor on this matter to which her reply was that VCS had done everything the regulations stated they should regarding the amount of signs and the lighting. The judge then referred to bad quality pictures of my car taken on the night by the ticket warden and stated that these show the lighting was clearly insufficient and supported my point. At this point the judge then ruled the case in my favour, the hearing only took around 15 minutes in total so it would seem he made his mind up before the hearing begun which would explain why he rejected the preliminary matters earlier on. I was only awarded £5 in total for fuel+parking, I tried to argue that I should be compensated for having to miss time at university for the hearing but he said it doesn’t count as loss of earnings. It’s a shame I couldn’t recoup all of my losses but I’m just glad to have it over and done with.


    I’d like to say a huge thanks to @bargepole for preparing all of my defence documents for me and for all of the advice he’s given me. Also to @Lamilad for representing me on the day, although it turned out to be a short hearing, it was good to know there was someone with the experience and knowledge on hand to help.



    Thank you to everyone who replied to the thread offering help and advice, it’s great to know people are so willing to help. Hopefully more people can find sites like this and get the advice they need in order to take the fight to scumbag parking companies like VCS!
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 19th Mar 17, 9:46 PM
    • 44,262 Posts
    • 56,982 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Well done to you, bargepole and Lamilad, both defence wording writers and lay reps who come highly recommended. This is your case reported by the Parking Prankster:

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2017/03/court-report-new-lay-representative.html

    Great!
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Matthew87
    • By Matthew87 23rd Mar 17, 2:48 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Matthew87
    HC77 - Any chance of your surname? And which Court?

    Adding your win to my persuasive list, but "VCS v Mr O'C 14/03/17 Unknown C7DP3H5T" doesn't quite look right! Haha
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