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  • FIRST POST
    • SippTechie
    • By SippTechie 22nd Sep 16, 6:28 PM
    • 74Posts
    • 71Thanks
    SippTechie
    Make cold calling re pensions and investments illegal
    • #1
    • 22nd Sep 16, 6:28 PM
    Make cold calling re pensions and investments illegal 22nd Sep 16 at 6:28 PM
    A new petition has been launched to ban cold calling by telephone and email on pensions and investments. The aim being to protect people from fraudsters who use this method.

    https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/166980

    The petition has attracted almost 300 signatures in one day and the more people who sign it, the more attention it will receive, and the more likely other people will be to sign it.

    Only takes about 20 seconds to sign these things and then validate your signature via email.
Page 1
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 22nd Sep 16, 7:11 PM
    • 85,129 Posts
    • 50,147 Thanks
    dunstonh
    • #2
    • 22nd Sep 16, 7:11 PM
    • #2
    • 22nd Sep 16, 7:11 PM
    The problem is that it is not normally the regulated firms that do the cold calling. If an unregulated scammer is looking to rip people off then are they going to take any notice of what other rules exist?

    You get scammers calling about investments and life assurance (such as the auto calls telling lies "due to government legislation....."). So you make it all financial products?
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. Different people have different needs and what is right for one person may not be for another. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from a Financial Adviser local to you.
    • SippTechie
    • By SippTechie 22nd Sep 16, 7:26 PM
    • 74 Posts
    • 71 Thanks
    SippTechie
    • #3
    • 22nd Sep 16, 7:26 PM
    • #3
    • 22nd Sep 16, 7:26 PM
    There isn't a single 'magic bullet' solution that is going to prevent pension fraud.

    I believe the idea behind the proposed ban is to close off one of the main routes used by the scammers to get to their victims.

    It won't be perfect because it won't stop calls from overseas, but it has the potential to prevent firms in the UK from doing this, or at least allow those who breach the rules to be brought to task for having done so.

    My understanding is that the main UK firms who cold call re pensions and investments are linked to those who cold call on issues like PPI, accident claims etc so (sadly!) they'll still have plenty of other matters to cold call us about and will just stop the pension/investment stuff - why would they risk it if it was illegal. They'd risk sanctions from the Information Commissioners Office.

    The other point is that if people knew that cold calling on pensions and investments was illegal in the UK, they'd hopefully be much more likely to reject any approaches they did receive.
    • Thrugelmir
    • By Thrugelmir 22nd Sep 16, 8:43 PM
    • 51,295 Posts
    • 43,104 Thanks
    Thrugelmir
    • #4
    • 22nd Sep 16, 8:43 PM
    • #4
    • 22nd Sep 16, 8:43 PM
    Cold calling is the issue that needs addressing. Not pension scamming. You'd gain more traction with a broader based petition.
    “A man is rich who lives upon what he has. A man is poor who lives upon what is coming. A prudent man lives within his income, and saves against ‘a rainy day’.”
    • SippTechie
    • By SippTechie 22nd Sep 16, 9:24 PM
    • 74 Posts
    • 71 Thanks
    SippTechie
    • #5
    • 22nd Sep 16, 9:24 PM
    • #5
    • 22nd Sep 16, 9:24 PM
    Cold calling is the issue that needs addressing. Not pension scamming. You'd gain more traction with a broader based petition.
    Originally posted by Thrugelmir
    The petition, which wasn't set up by me, is about cold calling. I'm guessing that it was focussed on pensions and investments because there are other (arguably) more legitimate uses of cold calling which mean that a broad-based cold calling ban would never be introduced by the Government.

    A cold calling ban focussed on mortgages has been in place for some years. I receive at least one cold call offering a pension review every single day. I can't remember ever having received a cold call about a mortgage, so maybe that suggests a pension/investment focussed ban would help.

    I don't think you're suggesting that pension scamming is not an issue in your post. If you are suggesting that it isn't an issue, I'd respectfully disagree on the basis of spending a significant amount of the last four years of my working life trying to stop people from being scammed out of their pensions, lots of whom I'm sure will have been cold called.
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 23rd Sep 16, 9:38 AM
    • 1,192 Posts
    • 1,572 Thanks
    Malthusian
    • #6
    • 23rd Sep 16, 9:38 AM
    • #6
    • 23rd Sep 16, 9:38 AM
    The problem is that it is not normally the regulated firms that do the cold calling. If an unregulated scammer is looking to rip people off then are they going to take any notice of what other rules exist?
    Originally posted by dunstonh
    The main reason I favour a ban on cold calling is that it would be much easier to arrest a scammer for cold calling, and secure a conviction, than for running a scam. Think Al Capone. They couldn't pin racketeering on him but they could get him for tax evasion.

    There are so few prosecutions and convictions for scams because it is so hard to distinguish them from an incompetently-run investment or business. Convicting someone for cold calling, on the other hand, would be easy. This is the call record from your phone provider proving you called these people. Do you have evidence that you had an existing business relationship with these people or an explicit invitation to call them? No? Then into the slammer you go.

    Meanwhile you use the threat of imprisonment for cold-calling to get the goons manning the phones to turn Queen's Evidence on the big fish and roll up the fraud itself. Totally simple and effective which is why it won't happen.

    You get scammers calling about investments and life assurance (such as the auto calls telling lies "due to government legislation....."). So you make it all financial products?
    All products, of any kind.
    • Thrugelmir
    • By Thrugelmir 23rd Sep 16, 10:32 AM
    • 51,295 Posts
    • 43,104 Thanks
    Thrugelmir
    • #7
    • 23rd Sep 16, 10:32 AM
    • #7
    • 23rd Sep 16, 10:32 AM
    The petition, which wasn't set up by me, is about cold calling. I'm guessing that it was focussed on pensions and investments because there are other (arguably) more legitimate uses of cold calling which mean that a broad-based cold calling ban would never be introduced by the Government.
    Originally posted by SippTechie
    Politicians will jump on any train which aligns with the electorates concerns. Nothing "legitimate" about cold calling. Just a bloody nuisance.
    “A man is rich who lives upon what he has. A man is poor who lives upon what is coming. A prudent man lives within his income, and saves against ‘a rainy day’.”
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 23rd Sep 16, 10:33 AM
    • 85,129 Posts
    • 50,147 Thanks
    dunstonh
    • #8
    • 23rd Sep 16, 10:33 AM
    • #8
    • 23rd Sep 16, 10:33 AM
    A total ban on cold calling would be wonderful and very popular. It wont happen. I have added to the petition as its a step forward.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. Different people have different needs and what is right for one person may not be for another. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from a Financial Adviser local to you.
    • MEM62
    • By MEM62 23rd Sep 16, 11:18 AM
    • 965 Posts
    • 634 Thanks
    MEM62
    • #9
    • 23rd Sep 16, 11:18 AM
    • #9
    • 23rd Sep 16, 11:18 AM
    The main reason I favour a ban on cold calling is that it would be much easier to arrest a scammer for cold calling, and secure a conviction, than for running a scam.
    Originally posted by Malthusian
    The thought that we could stop it is great. However, a legal ban would not make any difference whatsoever.

    With number masking, withheld numbers and calls being made from overseas countries where the rule of law carries little weight etc, what practical impact would such legislation have? Unfortunately, naff all I think.
    • SippTechie
    • By SippTechie 10th Oct 16, 9:33 PM
    • 74 Posts
    • 71 Thanks
    SippTechie
    The thought that we could stop it is great. However, a legal ban would not make any difference whatsoever.

    With number masking, withheld numbers and calls being made from overseas countries where the rule of law carries little weight etc, what practical impact would such legislation have? Unfortunately, naff all I think.
    Originally posted by MEM62
    Probably the same effect that a ban on mortgage cold calling had - it would make it illegal for those who are currently doing it on a widespread basis meaning they would stop.

    The smaller amount of activity that would remain from overseas companies would be recognised as illegal by a wider group of people meaning they would be more likely to just put the phone down.
    • Sapphire
    • By Sapphire 11th Oct 16, 12:10 AM
    • 1,800 Posts
    • 3,142 Thanks
    Sapphire
    Best not to answer the phone immediately and have your answer phone on, so that you only pick up calls that you want, i.e. from friends and family, etc. Works for me and saves me from yelling down the phone at cold callers. I'll sign the petition, though I think all cold calls should be banned.
    • atush
    • By atush 11th Oct 16, 1:38 PM
    • 15,322 Posts
    • 9,199 Thanks
    atush
    Wouldnt work for me.

    Most of my friends and family dont leave a message or hang on waiting for me to pick up. If the voice comes on, they hang up.
    • Triumph13
    • By Triumph13 11th Oct 16, 6:41 PM
    • 718 Posts
    • 658 Thanks
    Triumph13
    Signed and gladly. As someone whose job means I get genuine calls from people I don't know in India, I have to actually take the time to carefully establish that cold callers really are cold callers before letting rip with a stream of invective designed to melt their headset, so anything that reduces the numbers gets my vote.
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