Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • taylormc
    • By taylormc 22nd Sep 16, 6:18 PM
    • 5Posts
    • 1Thanks
    taylormc
    Natwest Pensions - Death before 75
    • #1
    • 22nd Sep 16, 6:18 PM
    Natwest Pensions - Death before 75 22nd Sep 16 at 6:18 PM
    Good Evening all,

    My father unfortunately passed away on Saturday evening. It was very sudden and he was only 50. The funeral costs will be extortion and he didn't have any plans in place - or really indicate his wishes should the time come to say goodbye. I do know he worked at Natwest for 8 years and would have had a pension in place with them. I have no idea how much it would have in it but I desperately need to gather all the funds I can to pay off the loan I'll have to take out for his funeral. I have no savings, my dad was in debt and didn't have anything himself. I have a 2 year old daughter and a family to support. Without the headstone I'm looking at 7 and a half grand as it is! No wake or anything. It's so horrible to have to worry about money when all I want to do is grieve for him. He was a wonderful man and I should be spending my time thinking on him rather than money.

    Has anyone had any dealings with Natwest as a next of kin accessing a lost one's pension? I'm going to call them tomorrow morning and arrange to send them a death certificate. Does anyone have information as to how long it'll take to receive payment from them, whether it'd be monthly or a lump sum etc? My dad's divorced and I'm the oldest child. I know there are different rules for those under 75. I want to mentally prepare myself for the conversation I'll be having tomorrow.

    Thank you for any help you can provide.
Page 1
    • Silvertabby
    • By Silvertabby 22nd Sep 16, 7:04 PM
    • 91 Posts
    • 98 Thanks
    Silvertabby
    • #2
    • 22nd Sep 16, 7:04 PM
    • #2
    • 22nd Sep 16, 7:04 PM
    I'm so sorry. I've been there, so I know what you are going through.

    I'm afraid no-one here can really help you with your pension query - it depends on when he worked for Natwest, on the type of pension scheme he was in (DB or DC) and the scheme rules. When you ring them tomorrow, explain that you are dealing with your dad's estate, and that as he didn't have any savings any lump sum from the pension fund would be needed to pay the funeral bill.

    Best wishes to you and your daughter.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 22nd Sep 16, 7:09 PM
    • 84,048 Posts
    • 49,064 Thanks
    dunstonh
    • #3
    • 22nd Sep 16, 7:09 PM
    • #3
    • 22nd Sep 16, 7:09 PM
    Sorry for your loss.

    but I desperately need to gather all the funds I can to pay off the loan I'll have to take out for his funeral.
    The funeral can be paid out of the estate. Is there anything in the bank accounts?

    Has anyone had any dealings with Natwest as a next of kin accessing a lost one's pension?
    Was he already retired and in receipt of the monthly pension income?

    Does anyone have information as to how long it'll take to receive payment from them, whether it'd be monthly or a lump sum etc?
    Dont get your hopes up. if he was already retired and in receipt of the pension then the pension income will likely cease (unless retirement was recent) and there will be no fund to pay out.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. Different people have different needs and what is right for one person may not be for another. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from a Financial Adviser local to you.
    • taylormc
    • By taylormc 22nd Sep 16, 7:14 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    taylormc
    • #4
    • 22nd Sep 16, 7:14 PM
    • #4
    • 22nd Sep 16, 7:14 PM
    My dad was not retired and he had no estate. He had nothing. He was only 50. He had a random brain hemorrhage at work and then he was gone. He wasn't prepared he didn't know it was coming. I'd also prefer you'd be more respectful. I am 23. My dad is dead. I don't want his money. I just want to pay for his funeral.
    • taylormc
    • By taylormc 22nd Sep 16, 7:15 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    taylormc
    • #5
    • 22nd Sep 16, 7:15 PM
    • #5
    • 22nd Sep 16, 7:15 PM
    His bank account was like minus 600. He had no savings. Nothing of value - not that I'd sell it if he did. He hadn't accessed his pension.
    • taylormc
    • By taylormc 22nd Sep 16, 7:21 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    taylormc
    • #6
    • 22nd Sep 16, 7:21 PM
    • #6
    • 22nd Sep 16, 7:21 PM
    I'm so sorry. I've been there, so I know what you are going through.

    I'm afraid no-one here can really help you with your pension query - it depends on when he worked for Natwest, on the type of pension scheme he was in (DB or DC) and the scheme rules. When you ring them tomorrow, explain that you are dealing with your dad's estate, and that as he didn't have any savings any lump sum from the pension fund would be needed to pay the funeral bill.

    Best wishes to you and your daughter.
    Originally posted by Silvertabby
    Thank you greatly. I guess I'll just have to see what happens. I guess there's no way I can be prepared for that conversation. It's just been a real overload on the senses for the last few days talking to funeral directors and so on. Every time I have spoken to someone new about it, it forces me accept he's gone - the pension phone call will be the cherry on the cake really.

    Thank you for your kind words. They are much appreciated.
    • Silvertabby
    • By Silvertabby 22nd Sep 16, 7:23 PM
    • 91 Posts
    • 98 Thanks
    Silvertabby
    • #7
    • 22nd Sep 16, 7:23 PM
    • #7
    • 22nd Sep 16, 7:23 PM
    Sorry for your loss.

    “ but I desperately need to gather all the funds I can to pay off the loan I'll have to take out for his funeral.

    The funeral can be paid out of the estate. Is there anything in the bank accounts?

    “ Has anyone had any dealings with Natwest as a next of kin accessing a lost one's pension?

    Was he already retired and in receipt of the monthly pension income?

    “ Does anyone have information as to how long it'll take to receive payment from them, whether it'd be monthly or a lump sum etc?

    Dont get your hopes up. if he was already retired and in receipt of the pension then the pension income will likely cease (unless retirement was recent) and there will be no fund to pay out.
    Dunston, he was just 50 and in debt. Unless he was in receipt of an ill health pension (doesn't seem to be the case) he may or may not have deferred benefits with Natwest.

    taylormc - dunstonh is right when he says not to get your hopes up, however. You could face a number of problems with Natwest tomorrow. Are you sure that your dad has a pension with them? It's just that if he worked for them some years ago, he may not have accrued even service to entitle him to pension benefits, and so would have been offered a refund of his contributions when he left. If not, was he still married to your mum when he worked there? If so, he may have completed an expression of wish form nominating her to receive any death benefits. See what I mean about it being complicated?

    I hope you get the answers you want tomorrow.
    • taylormc
    • By taylormc 22nd Sep 16, 7:30 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    taylormc
    • #8
    • 22nd Sep 16, 7:30 PM
    • #8
    • 22nd Sep 16, 7:30 PM
    He worked with them for 8 years, and only stopped working there a year - 2 years ago. My parents are divorced, so I think - well hopefully she'll lose any claim. She was terrible to him and the last thing he would have wanted would be his cheating ex-wife to take his money. I don't think he got any benefits back. He didn't get any extra money and went onto job seekers for a long time after he lost his job.

    I didn't expect it to be simple. Companies will do anything they can to not pay out when people die or get hurt - I know that. At least now I have some insight into what I'll have to deal with tomorrow.
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 22nd Sep 16, 7:46 PM
    • 1,935 Posts
    • 2,045 Thanks
    Keep pedalling
    • #9
    • 22nd Sep 16, 7:46 PM
    • #9
    • 22nd Sep 16, 7:46 PM
    Really sorry you are in this position, but do not get yourself into dept sorting out your father's funeral. If there is no money in the estate, you are not obliged to meet the costs. In this situation the responsibility falls on LA or hospital where he died to provide a simple but dignified funeral.
    • PeacefulWaters
    • By PeacefulWaters 22nd Sep 16, 8:16 PM
    • 4,675 Posts
    • 5,675 Thanks
    PeacefulWaters
    He worked with them for 8 years, and only stopped working there a year - 2 years ago. My parents are divorced, so I think - well hopefully she'll lose any claim. She was terrible to him and the last thing he would have wanted would be his cheating ex-wife to take his money. I don't think he got any benefits back. He didn't get any extra money and went onto job seekers for a long time after he lost his job.
    Originally posted by taylormc
    That timescale suggests that there might be a defined contribution fund which, if he did contribute, is good news.

    I didn't expect it to be simple.
    It might not be. There may or may not be a declaration of wishes as to who receives funds. The trustees have to exercise judgement too.

    Companies will do anything they can to not pay out when people die or get hurt - I know that. At least now I have some insight into what I'll have to deal with tomorrow.
    I think you'll find if there is a pot in a defined contribution scheme nobody's going to try and avoid paying out. The wider question becomes who should they pay out to.

    Have a read about state help.
    https://www.gov.uk/funeral-payments/overview
    Last edited by PeacefulWaters; 22-09-2016 at 8:19 PM.
    • quotememiserable
    • By quotememiserable 22nd Sep 16, 8:48 PM
    • 321 Posts
    • 187 Thanks
    quotememiserable
    Companies will do anything they can to not pay out when people die or get hurt - I know that. At least now I have some insight into what I'll have to deal with tomorrow.
    Originally posted by taylormc
    It'll be useful to realise that you'll be speaking to the pension company, not the bank company. The two legally have to be separate entities. The pension company are obliged to pay out according to the scheme rules and they will do so, without any attempt to get out of anything. The key issue will be a) to find out if he was a member and b) what the scheme rules are in this sort of case.
    Good luck and best wishes.
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 22nd Sep 16, 9:10 PM
    • 18,389 Posts
    • 10,300 Thanks
    xylophone
    Your father was 50 and started working for Natwest (RBS) when he was 40?

    This was 2006? See http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4986124.stm

    Did he just squeeze into the DB Scheme? Or DC?

    Where was he working before that? Was he contributing to any kind of pension scheme then?

    Are you sure that he had no savings or insurance policies?
    • Kynthia
    • By Kynthia 23rd Sep 16, 7:23 AM
    • 4,426 Posts
    • 6,390 Thanks
    Kynthia
    The pension company won't try to avoid paying out, tge issue may be time to find his records, whether he even had pension, what type, what does it pay out in the event of death, and who does it pay out too. This will all be done according to the rules of the scheme he was in, if any, and may not be as quick as you need.

    I'm sorry for your loss and it sounds shocking. I have no experience of this but I'm assuming there is no will and you and your siblings are his next of kin? There's a wills and probate part of the forum that might have other useful info for you (perhaps in Marriage, Relationships & Family).

    Do you have information about anywhere he worked before Natwest?
    Don't listen to me, I'm no expert!
    • iris
    • By iris 23rd Sep 16, 8:33 AM
    • 988 Posts
    • 3,009 Thanks
    iris
    I am so sorry for your loss.


    Why do you want to spend so much money on your Father's funeral? Surely a simple cremation would be more appropriate if money is short.


    Have you had time yet to sort through your Father's paperwork?
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 23rd Sep 16, 9:16 AM
    • 934 Posts
    • 1,256 Thanks
    Malthusian
    Why in God's name are you proposing to spend seven and a half thousand that neither you nor your late father have on a funeral?

    If that sounds harsh, it's not half as harsh as being seven and a half thousand in the red.
    • MEM62
    • By MEM62 23rd Sep 16, 11:05 AM
    • 884 Posts
    • 591 Thanks
    MEM62
    My dad was not retired and he had no estate. He had nothing. He was only 50. He had a random brain hemorrhage at work and then he was gone. He wasn't prepared he didn't know it was coming. I'd also prefer you'd be more respectful. I am 23. My dad is dead. I don't want his money. I just want to pay for his funeral.
    Originally posted by taylormc
    Dunstonh was not being disrespectful - just factual. Your post indicates that you are looking to contact NatWest and receive a speedy sum of money to cover the funeral costs. Dunstonh's point is that this is unlikely. If he was not collecting his pension then there may well be something to come into his estate but this isn't going to happen overnight.

    If your dad was working did his employer have any kind of 'death in service' benefit in place for their employees?

    As has already been mentioned, you are under no obligation to fund the funeral - although your desire to give your dad a dignified ceremony is understandable. If you are not in a position to afford this or can only do so with financial hardship and detriment to your family then you should not take on this burden. You mention that you are the eldest child which suggests your father has other children. Could this financial burden not be shared between all of his children? If not then as already suggested the LA can provide arrangements.
    Last edited by MEM62; 23-09-2016 at 11:09 AM.
    • atush
    • By atush 23rd Sep 16, 3:14 PM
    • 15,147 Posts
    • 9,060 Thanks
    atush
    I agree, contact his current employer. AS he died at work, there could be death in service. Also, there should have been an auto enrollment scheme at his work. This would be a DC pension that would pay out as cash. So first stop, call HR at his work.

    Third, if there is a nat west pension from 10 years ago, when you contact them make sure you claim the pension and state your relationship- and the fact that he is divorced from your mother. He was probably still married to your mother way back then, so her name could be on the declaration. Second, you need to speak to your siblings and agree on payment of any funeral- as the money if it exists would be split between you if it doesnt go to your mother.

    But if it is a DB scheme, it may have died with him. Unless any of your siblings are under 23 and still in education? But it would not go to you (unless there was a guarantee period).

    So if he died in debt, you really should not be putting on such a funeral if you dont have the money for it. Contact the LA about paying for his funeral. And pay for/add a headstone later at your expense if you want to.

    You owe it to your Daughter not to take on any such huge debt.

    Good luck, and i am sorry for your loss.
    • HappyHarry
    • By HappyHarry 23rd Sep 16, 3:40 PM
    • 168 Posts
    • 157 Thanks
    HappyHarry
    I'm sorry for your loss.

    You say your father was working, is there any possibility that he may have had some kind of death in service benefit from his employer?

    <Edit - just realised MEM62 has asked the same >

    Companies will do anything they can to not pay out when people die or get hurt - I know that.
    They really don't. You will find the vast majority of financial services companies you need to deal with will be very sympathetic and helpful. They will understand that you may be upset, and they will do their best to alleviate any unnecessary upset.
    Last edited by HappyHarry; 23-09-2016 at 3:40 PM. Reason: Edit added
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser. Any comments I make here are intended for information / discussion only. Nothing I post here should be construed as advice. If you are looking for individual financial advice, please contact a local Independent Financial Adviser.
    • Linton
    • By Linton 23rd Sep 16, 3:50 PM
    • 6,664 Posts
    • 6,222 Thanks
    Linton
    Good Evening all,
    ....... I have no idea how much it would have in it but I desperately need to gather all the funds I can to pay off the loan I'll have to take out for his funeral. I have no savings, my dad was in debt and didn't have anything himself. I have a 2 year old daughter and a family to support. Without the headstone I'm looking at 7 and a half grand as it is!......
    Originally posted by taylormc
    This is extremely expensive for a funeral. My father's funeral was a quietly dignified cremation with his close family and friends present. The food for the gathering after the funeral included a few bottles of good wine and "finest" supermarket snacks. No-one wanted or expected more than that. His estate could have paid for more but that would have been totally inappropriate and could not have added to the effectiveness of the ceremony. The total cost was less than half what you are suggesting.

    Do not go into debt to pay for an extravagent funeral. Something simple done well is far better and shows no disrespect. In fact dont go into debt at all - a long period of repayments isnt the way to remember and honour your father.
    • speakingofart
    • By speakingofart 24th Sep 16, 3:28 PM
    • 347 Posts
    • 3,888 Thanks
    speakingofart
    My father passed away very suddenly - a massive heart attack - in June. He left a will naming me as executor and I am still waiting for the various companies to sort out what pensions he had and to ascertain what they are paying out to the solicitor I've appointed. I say this not to be negative, but to tell you that everything is more complicated and takes longer than you think - for a start, if he didn't have a will, you'll need to get probate.

    I would - gently - agree with those who say don't spend 7,500 on a funeral, please. I buried my dad, as he would have wanted, for just under 3,000 and this has been paid out of the estate. I appreciate that you don't have that luxury but please think about whether your dad would want you to go into debt for this.

    Huge condolences for your loss, it is utterly terrible to lose someone so suddenly.
    Proud to be debt free September 2014.

    Sisu.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim's to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

2,432Posts Today

6,868Users online

Martin's Twitter