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  • FIRST POST
    • Ant Wish
    • By Ant Wish 22nd Sep 16, 4:44 PM
    • 47Posts
    • 6Thanks
    Ant Wish
    Just been issued a section 21 Housing act notice to vacate.
    • #1
    • 22nd Sep 16, 4:44 PM
    Just been issued a section 21 Housing act notice to vacate. 22nd Sep 16 at 4:44 PM
    Just been surprised with a section 21 Recovery of possession on expiry or termination of assured shorthold tenancy. Housing Act (1988).

    I just got the email off the estate agent telling me I have to move by December 11th not because I am a bad tenant because the landlord wants to move back in. I have paid my rent to this date and I have been living here with out a problem since December 2014.

    My problem is I am a student and have just started back doing a postgraduate legal practice course which finishes July 2017, which is really time consuming and I have to spend a lot of time reading and it important I do not have any distractions especially having to move house.

    Is there any way I can refuse to leave? I do not want to be a nuisance or problem to any one but the land lord knows I am in university and knows universities go back in September so in my opinion he should of told me to move house in the summer well before now.

    In August I was going to move house and gave my notice but then changed my mind and told the estate agents I was staying on is the email of me saying I was staying on until July 2017 a binding contract with a new assured shorthold tenancy which has a fixed term tenancy,
    Section 21 (1) (a) states that this order can only be made if;
    "(that the assured shorthold tenancy has come to an end and no further assured tenancy (whether shorthold or not) is for the time being in existence, other than [F1an assured shorthold periodic tenancy (whether statutory or not)]

    Here is the emails I was sent and received on August 31st 2016;

    1) Off estate agents to me in regards I had decided not to move from the premises when four weeks earlier I had decided to give in my notice to leave. (some of the other information here is me telling them what dates I would pay the rent so is irrelevant)
    Hi Anthony
    Thanks for the update with regards to your rent payment, Lynsey my colleague will advise the Landlord.
    Can you confirm by email that you are not looking to vacate as originally stated and I will advise Sarah to remove the property from advertising.
    Please note should you decide to vacate in the coming months four weeks written notice must be given.
    Any problems in the meantime just let me know.

    2) Off me confirming by email that i am not looking to vacate as I had originally stated, stating I intended to stay until July 2017;

    "Alright Sharon yeah I'm going to stay on until next July thanks"

    3) off estate agent saying thanks for confirming I was not vacating, in my opinion accepting me as the tenant of this property until July 2017. If this was not an acceptance then it should state otherwise.
    "Thanks Anthony
    I will remove the property from the advertising and advise your Landlord."

    Is there anything I can do? Because this is such a pain that it is making me feel stressed and want to leave university, which I have just taken out a career development loan to pay for the course I am on because Student finance does not cover the LPC. So I have to pay it back right away after I finish the course so I can not really quit or I would put it off for a year.

    Thanks
    Last edited by Ant Wish; 22-09-2016 at 4:47 PM.
Page 2
    • Ant Wish
    • By Ant Wish 22nd Sep 16, 6:21 PM
    • 47 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Ant Wish
    Thanks every one I admit I have panicked a lot when I got the section 21 notice email it was a shock and over reacted but I will just move if I need to. Problems solved. In my defense I think most people would of s**t their pants when they got this email as well. Thanks.
    • MrWillyWonka
    • By MrWillyWonka 22nd Sep 16, 6:37 PM
    • 279 Posts
    • 396 Thanks
    MrWillyWonka
    It would be far better to move now than to move closer to your exam/dissertation date with potential extra legal hassle?
    • marksoton
    • By marksoton 22nd Sep 16, 7:23 PM
    • 15,795 Posts
    • 35,389 Thanks
    marksoton
    Thanks every one I admit I have panicked a lot when I got the section 21 notice email it was a shock and over reacted but I will just move if I need to. Problems solved. In my defense I think most people would of s**t their pants when they got this email as well. Thanks.
    Originally posted by Ant Wish
    What area of law are you going into if you don't mind me asking?
    I'm an idiot troll. Apparently...
    • whatajoke2016
    • By whatajoke2016 22nd Sep 16, 7:29 PM
    • 40 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    whatajoke2016
    I was given a Section 21 to leave.
    I have had a hearing as I disputed the fact that deposit was not protected and that the clause of break clause could not be relied upon as it was not constructed properly.

    The landlord was awarded the possession.

    I have now appealed as documents were forged with my signature showing the deposit was protected but I did not sign them.

    My appeal has now been granted to stay the eviction until the appeal hearing.

    Now I face a problem of not having a positive reference from landlord which means it is now hard for me to move into another place even right now.

    Timeline is:

    1. Handed Section 21
    2. two months later, as long as you are over 6 months into break clause territory, court proceedings can be commenced which will take around 3 more months to come by.
    3. If posession is awarded, given 14 days to vacate.
    4. After 2 weeks, subject to no appeal, could take 4 more weeks for bailifs
    5. If appeal launched prior to end of 2 weeks, it could take a further 2 months...

    But at the end of the day, section 21 is no fault and someone can take back their property if they want to for no reason. Shitty but it is the law.
    • whatajoke2016
    • By whatajoke2016 22nd Sep 16, 7:32 PM
    • 40 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    whatajoke2016
    Also more importantly just so you know,

    you could have something come back to bite you in future.... if your landlord's solicitor sees the email of you saying that you want to leave and THEN changed your mind, you could be back charged double rent and it claimed from you in the hearing as part of the eviction....

    There is an old statute:

    Distress for Rent Act 1737. Section 18, entitles the landlord to double the passing rent where the tenant has given a notice that he will quit the premises at a specified time but subsequently continues to occupy the premises in contravention of the notice. The difference is here that the tenant has given notice that he intends to vacate whilst under the 1730 Act it is the Landlord who gives notice to the tenant to quit.
    • marksoton
    • By marksoton 22nd Sep 16, 7:36 PM
    • 15,795 Posts
    • 35,389 Thanks
    marksoton

    But at the end of the day, section 21 is no fault and someone can take back their property if they want to for no reason. Shitty but it is the law.
    Originally posted by whatajoke2016
    Wow, just wow.

    In what sane world do you consider someone " shitty" by taking THEIR property back within a legal framework ?
    I'm an idiot troll. Apparently...
    • deannatrois
    • By deannatrois 22nd Sep 16, 7:44 PM
    • 4,176 Posts
    • 5,840 Thanks
    deannatrois
    While its perfectly legal, it is a shitty position to be in for the tenant, even if they have no money problems and can move to another place. If none of the above applies, its double sh****. However legal lol.

    We've seen the stories on here where someone moves into a place expecting it to be long term, having paid hundreds in admin fees, deposit etc. And then their sixth month initial term is up and they have to do it again. Perfectly legal, but not good news for a tenant. They might have children in a school, and have to move them to another area. Its rarely going to be good news for a tenant. And you know that Marksoton.
    Last edited by deannatrois; 22-09-2016 at 7:46 PM.
    When people ask for adviCe I do my best to adviSe them on the best course of action but would be extremely grateful if people asked for advice rather than advise
    • G_M
    • By G_M 22nd Sep 16, 7:48 PM
    • 35,903 Posts
    • 39,192 Thanks
    G_M
    Wow, just wow.

    In what sane world do you consider someone " shitty" by taking THEIR property back within a legal framework ?
    Originally posted by marksoton
    You're right of course, but, to play devil's advocate, I have some sympathy with tenants on this. Maggie Thatcher of course is to blame.

    For comparison, in France it is extremely hard for a LL to evict.

    Our system of (frequently) 6 month fixed terms with a 2 month notice period is not condusive to stable family life, or a sense of security in one's home.

    But as you say, it IS the system we have, and so it is the system everyone must accept - LLs and Ts alike.
    • marksoton
    • By marksoton 22nd Sep 16, 7:53 PM
    • 15,795 Posts
    • 35,389 Thanks
    marksoton
    While its perfectly legal, it is a shitty position to be in for the tenant, even if they have no money problems and can move to another place. If none of the above applies, its double sh****. However legal lol.

    We've seen the stories on here where someone moves into a place expecting it to be long term, having paid hundreds in admin fees, deposit etc. And then their sixth month initial term is up and they have to do it again. Perfectly legal, but not good news for a tenant. They might have children in a school, and have to move them to another area. Its rarely going to be good news for a tenant. And you know that Marksoton.
    Originally posted by deannatrois
    I get that. But at some point the owner has to be able to reclaim their asset surely? Everyone goes in to rental with eyes wide open.

    It's a contract. If you want a different one ask for it. I don't "like" the rental market in this country but you play the hand you're dealt.
    I'm an idiot troll. Apparently...
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 22nd Sep 16, 8:00 PM
    • 3,481 Posts
    • 3,533 Thanks
    AnotherJoe
    Is there anything I can do? Because this is such a pain that it is making me feel stressed and want to leave university, which I have just taken out a career development loan to pay for the course I am on because Student finance does not cover the LPC. So I have to pay it back right away after I finish the course so I can not really quit or I would put it off for a year.
    ------
    Good grief how will you cope with real stress when in an actual job, and you have clients relying on you who have somewhat bigger problems than needing to move at three months notice?

    Get some perspective, get a grip. Seriously. Or maybe you just aren't cut out for a stressful career?
    • marksoton
    • By marksoton 22nd Sep 16, 8:07 PM
    • 15,795 Posts
    • 35,389 Thanks
    marksoton
    Is there anything I can do? Because this is such a pain that it is making me feel stressed and want to leave university, which I have just taken out a career development loan to pay for the course I am on because Student finance does not cover the LPC. So I have to pay it back right away after I finish the course so I can not really quit or I would put it off for a year.
    ------
    Good grief how will you cope with real stress when in an actual job, and you have clients relying on you who have somewhat bigger problems than needing to move at three months notice?

    Get some perspective, get a grip. Seriously. Or maybe you just aren't cut out for a stressful career?
    Originally posted by AnotherJoe
    Glad someone else said it!
    I'm an idiot troll. Apparently...
    • Lioness Twinkletoes
    • By Lioness Twinkletoes 22nd Sep 16, 9:31 PM
    • 884 Posts
    • 2,906 Thanks
    Lioness Twinkletoes
    section 21 is no fault and someone can take back their property if they want to for no reason. Shitty but it is the law.
    Originally posted by whatajoke2016
    No, not shitty at all. Landlords rent their properties out for a variety of reasons and it is absolutely right and proper that they can request vacant possession when required/needed.
    • mattyprice4004
    • By mattyprice4004 22nd Sep 16, 10:36 PM
    • 3,358 Posts
    • 2,741 Thanks
    mattyprice4004
    Funny story, I got a letter last week which said 'thanks for advertising your house for sale with us' etc etc - I panicked (as I rent) and went into meltdown.

    Turns out the estate agent hadn't put a name on the letter (address only) and it was a poorly written 4a, not 42 (where I live!)

    Anyway, I hope the move goes well. It's never a good position to be in.
    Drives - MG ZT-T CDTi Auto
    Owns - Nothing, yet! House hopefully in a few years
    Gluten free as of 11/06/14!
    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 22nd Sep 16, 10:50 PM
    • 640 Posts
    • 796 Thanks
    Cakeguts
    You're right of course, but, to play devil's advocate, I have some sympathy with tenants on this. Maggie Thatcher of course is to blame.

    For comparison, in France it is extremely hard for a LL to evict.

    Our system of (frequently) 6 month fixed terms with a 2 month notice period is not condusive to stable family life, or a sense of security in one's home.

    But as you say, it IS the system we have, and so it is the system everyone must accept - LLs and Ts alike.
    Originally posted by G_M
    One of the shortest tenancies we have ever had was for a French property. The tenants gave notice to move after 1 year.
    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 22nd Sep 16, 10:53 PM
    • 640 Posts
    • 796 Thanks
    Cakeguts
    No one can guarantee that they will be able to live in the same property for ever even if they own it.
    • whatajoke2016
    • By whatajoke2016 23rd Sep 16, 10:18 AM
    • 40 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    whatajoke2016
    Wow, just wow.

    In what sane world do you consider someone " shitty" by taking THEIR property back within a legal framework ?
    Originally posted by marksoton
    "Shitty" in the sense that someone who has paid for "temporary ownership during contract" has to now change their lifestyle or circumstance when they were busy trying to live life. It is an inconvenience to one party especially if the party was happy to stay in a property.

    How is that now a sane world to have one side be displeased by circumstance? That is life.
    • marksoton
    • By marksoton 23rd Sep 16, 10:36 AM
    • 15,795 Posts
    • 35,389 Thanks
    marksoton
    "Shitty" in the sense that someone who has paid for "temporary ownership during contract" has to now change their lifestyle or circumstance when they were busy trying to live life. It is an inconvenience to one party especially if the party was happy to stay in a property.

    How is that now a sane world to have one side be displeased by circumstance? That is life.
    Originally posted by whatajoke2016
    And that " temporary ownership" is coming to an end.

    If they wanted a place for longer rent a place with a longer lease.
    I'm an idiot troll. Apparently...
    • cloo
    • By cloo 23rd Sep 16, 3:04 PM
    • 686 Posts
    • 446 Thanks
    cloo
    I always say that people may go 'Oh, evil landlords demanding people leave', but I'd mainly blame the silly situation that's evolved in this country whereby so much rental property is in private hands of unregulated often poorly-informed people (of whom I was one for 8 years!). I think it's something like 81% of private landlords own only one property, and generally when they give notice 'for no reason', they generally aren't doing it so they can buy themselves a Ferrari.


    They're often not wealthy individuals (other than in property assets) and generally will be selling up because their family has got bigger, they're retiring, divorcing, they want to give their kids a deposit, they want to start a business etc. It's not much comfort to tenants, but I do hate this archetype of the venal landlord throwing tenants onto the street so the landlord can bathe in banknotes. But I do also think that leaving letting up to private landlords has not been a good system for society.


    /rant
    • Apodemus
    • By Apodemus 23rd Sep 16, 3:37 PM
    • 194 Posts
    • 124 Thanks
    Apodemus
    Yes, you'll have to move. You can refuse, but as previously advised, this will cost you money.

    The state of your OP, grammatically speaking, is worrisome considering you're intending to join the legal profession.
    Originally posted by Lioness Twinkletoes
    I would be much more concerned about a prospective lawyer (who has already graduated with a legal degree) seeking legal advice from an Internet forum!

    No-one has suggested that the OP actually talks to the LL to see if there is any way that they can reach a suitable compromise. If both are reasonable people, there may be ways that the OP can help the owner sell the property. In the past I have house-sat for someone that wanted to sell. I kept the place occupied, heated/furnished and showed prospective buyers round, in return for free accommodation and a promise to leave by the agreed entry-date. Win/win!
    • PersianCatLady
    • By PersianCatLady 23rd Sep 16, 10:21 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    PersianCatLady
    Unfortunately one of the down sides of renting is that the LL has the right (as long as they follow the correct legal procedures) to regain possession of their property.


    Why on Earth are you acting as if the LL is being unreasonable?
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