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  • FIRST POST
    • Ant Wish
    • By Ant Wish 22nd Sep 16, 4:44 PM
    • 47Posts
    • 6Thanks
    Ant Wish
    Just been issued a section 21 Housing act notice to vacate.
    • #1
    • 22nd Sep 16, 4:44 PM
    Just been issued a section 21 Housing act notice to vacate. 22nd Sep 16 at 4:44 PM
    Just been surprised with a section 21 Recovery of possession on expiry or termination of assured shorthold tenancy. Housing Act (1988).

    I just got the email off the estate agent telling me I have to move by December 11th not because I am a bad tenant because the landlord wants to move back in. I have paid my rent to this date and I have been living here with out a problem since December 2014.

    My problem is I am a student and have just started back doing a postgraduate legal practice course which finishes July 2017, which is really time consuming and I have to spend a lot of time reading and it important I do not have any distractions especially having to move house.

    Is there any way I can refuse to leave? I do not want to be a nuisance or problem to any one but the land lord knows I am in university and knows universities go back in September so in my opinion he should of told me to move house in the summer well before now.

    In August I was going to move house and gave my notice but then changed my mind and told the estate agents I was staying on is the email of me saying I was staying on until July 2017 a binding contract with a new assured shorthold tenancy which has a fixed term tenancy,
    Section 21 (1) (a) states that this order can only be made if;
    "(that the assured shorthold tenancy has come to an end and no further assured tenancy (whether shorthold or not) is for the time being in existence, other than [F1an assured shorthold periodic tenancy (whether statutory or not)]

    Here is the emails I was sent and received on August 31st 2016;

    1) Off estate agents to me in regards I had decided not to move from the premises when four weeks earlier I had decided to give in my notice to leave. (some of the other information here is me telling them what dates I would pay the rent so is irrelevant)
    Hi Anthony
    Thanks for the update with regards to your rent payment, Lynsey my colleague will advise the Landlord.
    Can you confirm by email that you are not looking to vacate as originally stated and I will advise Sarah to remove the property from advertising.
    Please note should you decide to vacate in the coming months four weeks written notice must be given.
    Any problems in the meantime just let me know.

    2) Off me confirming by email that i am not looking to vacate as I had originally stated, stating I intended to stay until July 2017;

    "Alright Sharon yeah I'm going to stay on until next July thanks"

    3) off estate agent saying thanks for confirming I was not vacating, in my opinion accepting me as the tenant of this property until July 2017. If this was not an acceptance then it should state otherwise.
    "Thanks Anthony
    I will remove the property from the advertising and advise your Landlord."

    Is there anything I can do? Because this is such a pain that it is making me feel stressed and want to leave university, which I have just taken out a career development loan to pay for the course I am on because Student finance does not cover the LPC. So I have to pay it back right away after I finish the course so I can not really quit or I would put it off for a year.

    Thanks
    Last edited by Ant Wish; 22-09-2016 at 4:47 PM.
Page 1
    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 22nd Sep 16, 4:48 PM
    • 3,464 Posts
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    marliepanda
    • #2
    • 22nd Sep 16, 4:48 PM
    • #2
    • 22nd Sep 16, 4:48 PM
    You don't 'have' to leave.

    If you don't leave after the s21 date (if validly served...) then he can take you to court to get an eviction order.

    That will cost you the fees. It will be more distracting than moving house (and you'll then have to move anyway) and I'm sure being taken to court will look great considering you are on a legal course.

    I very much doubt YOUR email saying you'll stay until July 2017 constitutes a contract until then.
    Suvery Earnings 2016 - £188
    • ST1991
    • By ST1991 22nd Sep 16, 4:48 PM
    • 32 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    ST1991
    • #3
    • 22nd Sep 16, 4:48 PM
    • #3
    • 22nd Sep 16, 4:48 PM
    Have you seen 'can't pay we'll take it away?'

    Obviously not specific to your situation as you are paid to date - but pretty sure from my bad-tv habits you have no choice but to vacate with a section 21. No way around it.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 22nd Sep 16, 4:49 PM
    • 11,170 Posts
    • 10,496 Thanks
    Guest101
    • #4
    • 22nd Sep 16, 4:49 PM
    • #4
    • 22nd Sep 16, 4:49 PM
    no that doesn't create a new fixed period in my opinion.


    However you don't have to leave by December either. A s.21 is just intent of going to court.


    That said, the LL could be charging you double rent now too. and they've given you more notice than required.


    So it's best all round (and given the LL is being very fair) to find somewhere to move to
    • theartfullodger
    • By theartfullodger 22nd Sep 16, 4:49 PM
    • 8,258 Posts
    • 10,769 Thanks
    theartfullodger
    • #5
    • 22nd Sep 16, 4:49 PM
    • #5
    • 22nd Sep 16, 4:49 PM
    Many s21s are invalid. When did you 1st move in? If after 01/10/2015 there are several more things a landlord must do for a s21.

    Additionally, was you deposit protected and you served with "the prescribed information" within 30 days ofg you paying deposit?

    An s21 does not end a tenancy nor require you to leave. It simply (if valid) permits landlord to start court proceeedings - probably another 2 months..
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 22nd Sep 16, 4:51 PM
    • 11,170 Posts
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    Guest101
    • #6
    • 22nd Sep 16, 4:51 PM
    • #6
    • 22nd Sep 16, 4:51 PM
    Have you seen 'can't pay we'll take it away?'

    Obviously not specific to your situation as you are paid to date - but pretty sure from my bad-tv habits you have no choice but to vacate with a section 21. No way around it.
    Originally posted by ST1991


    Oh please. Seriously stop it.


    1: s.21 doesn't end a tenancy
    2: CPWTIA was not conducting thing correctly
    3: S.21 eviction has nothing to do with rent paid.


    - OP you can safely ignore what ST wrote (due to it being factually inaccurate, before Mods jump on me)
    • G_M
    • By G_M 22nd Sep 16, 5:06 PM
    • 35,949 Posts
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    G_M
    • #7
    • 22nd Sep 16, 5:06 PM
    • #7
    • 22nd Sep 16, 5:06 PM
    The emails created a periodic tenancy, not a fixed term. In particular note:
    "Please note should you decide to vacate in the coming months four weeks written notice must be given. ".

    I just got the email off the estate agent telling me I have to move by December 11th
    1) is email specified in your contract as an agreed means of serving notices?
    2) have you responded (ie verifying receipt)?
    3) was this actually a S21 Notice? (New S21 Notice (Form 6a) & PI )

    Plus the usual checks:

    A S21 is invalid if:

    a) served before/at the same time as the tenancy starts
    b) served before deposit has been registered & the deposit's ‘Prescribed Information’ given to the tenant
    c) incorrect dates/notice period
    d)
    expiry date is within 1st 6 months of original tenancy
    e) For tenancies starting after 1st October 2015:
    - served in 1st 4 months
    - new tenancy Prescribed Information has not been supplied (EPC, gas report,
    "how to rent), or
    -
    council has served a repairing enforcement notice on the landlord, following a complaint by a tenant. See
    Enforcing repairs here.

    But basically, start looking!
    • ST1991
    • By ST1991 22nd Sep 16, 5:12 PM
    • 32 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    ST1991
    • #8
    • 22nd Sep 16, 5:12 PM
    • #8
    • 22nd Sep 16, 5:12 PM
    Oh please. Seriously stop it.


    1: s.21 doesn't end a tenancy
    2: CPWTIA was not conducting thing correctly
    3: S.21 eviction has nothing to do with rent paid.


    - OP you can safely ignore what ST wrote (due to it being factually inaccurate, before Mods jump on me)
    Originally posted by Guest101
    This is actually my bad, I'm sure i have read amoung the forums (and the awful tv show) there is a sectionXYZ where you actually have to vacate immediately? I assume, re-reading this that i am grossly mistaken. But intrigued to find out which one that would actually be.
    • deannatrois
    • By deannatrois 22nd Sep 16, 5:19 PM
    • 4,183 Posts
    • 5,861 Thanks
    deannatrois
    • #9
    • 22nd Sep 16, 5:19 PM
    • #9
    • 22nd Sep 16, 5:19 PM
    Try putting this in perspective.., you are going to be studying until July 2017.., that's 10 months. During that ten months you will lose a few days packing and moving plus some time finding somewhere else to live. I've packed and moved when in a one bed place in two days lol. You can explain why you might have problems handing in papers over the move period to the university.

    There's no denying its inconvenient.., but I think you are panicking and magnifying what will be involved. It is do-able. It won't be easy but losing a maximum of a couple of weeks out of ten months doesn't mean you have to leave the course.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 22nd Sep 16, 5:21 PM
    • 11,170 Posts
    • 10,496 Thanks
    Guest101
    This is actually my bad, I'm sure i have read amoung the forums (and the awful tv show) there is a sectionXYZ where you actually have to vacate immediately? I assume, re-reading this that i am grossly mistaken. But intrigued to find out which one that would actually be.
    Originally posted by ST1991


    Section. 'doesntexistinenglishlaw'


    S.21 is a no-fault eviction starting point. It notifies the tenant that the LL intends to go to court to end the tenancy (and is the most commonly used eviction process, and the closest that you can get to what you're suggesting)


    After getting a possession order, some LLs used to escalate it to the High Court (those blokes on CPWTIA) however the tenants were not notified of this, which it turns out, by law, they must be.


    So when they turned up unannounced, they were actually breaking the law.


    There is no way for a LL to evict a tenant purely through notice, with immediate affect.
    • pinkshoes
    • By pinkshoes 22nd Sep 16, 5:25 PM
    • 14,524 Posts
    • 19,513 Thanks
    pinkshoes
    Find somewhere else ASAP and give your 1 month notice.

    When does your Christmas term end?
    Should've = Should HAVE (not 'of')
    Would've = Would HAVE (not 'of')

    No, I am not perfect, but yes I do judge people on their use of basic English language. If you didn't know the above, then learn it! (If English is your second language, then you are forgiven!)
    • Ant Wish
    • By Ant Wish 22nd Sep 16, 5:26 PM
    • 47 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Ant Wish
    I moved in December 2014 and told them I would be here until July 2016 when I graduated my Law degree possibly July 2017 if I do the postgraduate legal practice course, which I have just started. I initially paid 6 months up front then I have been paying in installments of like four months rent then three months renr then one months rent. My last rent payment was for three months taking me to December 2016.

    I asked to leave this property in July 2016 when my rent was up but I had to give a months notice I had missed that date by a week so waited until the correct date gave a months notice and paid my rent to the relevant date. I then changed my mind and decided to stay here and that's is the information in the above emails.

    The landlord just informed me that his wife is pregnant and he needs to sell this place ASAP. I do not want to sound bad but this isn't my concern is it? I need to be able to concentrate in university and can't be moving.
    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 22nd Sep 16, 5:31 PM
    • 3,464 Posts
    • 6,706 Thanks
    marliepanda
    The landlords wife's pregnancy is not your concern.

    You not wanting to move because you 'need to concentrate' is not the landlords concern.

    You cannot legally stay there until July 2017. You have no contract.

    You could potentially stay a few months after the S21 date, but it will be way more hassle and impact far more on your studies than moving.
    Suvery Earnings 2016 - £188
    • marksoton
    • By marksoton 22nd Sep 16, 5:42 PM
    • 15,808 Posts
    • 35,426 Thanks
    marksoton
    I've packed and moved when in a one bed place in two days lol.
    Originally posted by deannatrois
    I've done it in 2 hours!


    The landlord just informed me that his wife is pregnant and he needs to sell this place ASAP. I do not want to sound bad but this isn't my concern is it? I need to be able to concentrate in university and can't be moving.
    Originally posted by Ant Wish
    Oh come off it. A couple of days isn't going to matter. Are you saying you study all day everyday even out of term time!?

    You're being melodramatic and need to find somewhere else to live.
    I'm an idiot troll. Apparently...
    • Voyager2002
    • By Voyager2002 22nd Sep 16, 5:44 PM
    • 10,778 Posts
    • 7,241 Thanks
    Voyager2002

    The landlord just informed me that his wife is pregnant and he needs to sell this place ASAP. I do not want to sound bad but this isn't my concern is it? I need to be able to concentrate in university and can't be moving.
    Originally posted by Ant Wish
    Well, whose house is it?

    Basically, you have two options. You could find somewhere new, and move. Send the landlord a nice letter congratulating him on his new family and indicating that the move will be difficult and expensive for you, and invite him to help with your removal expenses.

    Alternatively, you could certainly remain in the house for a good few months after December. For a start, you could suggest to the landlord that he sees if he can sell the property to another landlord with you as a sitting tenant. Some investors are happy to acquire a source of income with no need to look for a tenant, so that might just work. Otherwise: when the notice expires you can do nothing, forcing the landlord to take you to court. Even then you could drag your heels for a while, forcing him to go back to court for an eviction order and even engage bailiffs to encourage you to leave. Of course, all of this would be expensive and in the end the court would order you to pay all the costs, and if you are going to work in the law then you really need to make any payments ordered by a court, and promptly. And in my opinion this whole process would be a good deal more stressful and time-consuming than moving... but that is your choice.
    • Lioness Twinkletoes
    • By Lioness Twinkletoes 22nd Sep 16, 5:48 PM
    • 884 Posts
    • 2,908 Thanks
    Lioness Twinkletoes
    Yes, you'll have to move. You can refuse, but as previously advised, this will cost you money.

    The state of your OP, grammatically speaking, is worrisome considering you're intending to join the legal profession.
    • Marktheshark
    • By Marktheshark 22nd Sep 16, 5:54 PM
    • 5,077 Posts
    • 6,364 Thanks
    Marktheshark
    How were you served the s21 ?
    If it was by E-mail Ignore it, do not reply to it and then make them prove they served the s21 correctly.


    They will have to do it all again.
    Brexit will become whatever they invent it to be.
    • unforeseen
    • By unforeseen 22nd Sep 16, 6:01 PM
    • 700 Posts
    • 919 Thanks
    unforeseen
    Did the LL actually accept the rescission of the notice that the OP gave? The emails only mention that they will pass the info to the LL not that they accepted it.
    • Quizzical Squirrel
    • By Quizzical Squirrel 22nd Sep 16, 6:05 PM
    • 77 Posts
    • 3,177 Thanks
    Quizzical Squirrel
    So just to clarify, we all think he's in a monthly periodic contract rather than a 12 month fixed with a break clause?

    Ant wish, you can delay moving past that date and force the landlord to evict you through the court which will buy you some extra time, but:

    1) there's no way you can stretch this to next July. Just forget that altogether. You're probably only looking at an extra two or three months. It'll be stressful and your landlord may be awarded court costs. I recently evicted a tenant this way and the court ordered them to pay my £800 court costs.

    2) that means you'll be looking for another place when rentals are thin on the ground. It won't be peak season and there'll be less choice although maybe you'll find a better deal on the rent on a place that's been languishing.

    3) it's likely that you'd then be looking for that place with a poor reference.
    You may also be worse off financially than you would be now, with a landlord being particularly petty over damages taken from your deposit, court fees and if you can't pay then probably a CCJ hanging over you.

    It'll be better for you to just find somewhere soon.
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 22nd Sep 16, 6:13 PM
    • 13,774 Posts
    • 35,408 Thanks
    FBaby
    For someone studying law, it is worrying that you seem more concerned about your stress levels than what the law says you should do in your circumstances. I expect you'll experience a lot more stress than this in your career.

    You've already been told what your position is. Assuming your landlord has followed the above tasks in the right timescale, than they are doing nothing wrong. They are entitled to ask you to go giving you the right notice, whether you like it or not (just like you were intending to do yourself).

    As stated, you can stay, but it will only delay the inevitable and result in a bad reference, a record you've been taken to court, and much much more stress.
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