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  • FIRST POST
    • cupid07
    • By cupid07 22nd Sep 16, 11:35 AM
    • 99Posts
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    cupid07
    chargeback when i paid with paypal
    • #1
    • 22nd Sep 16, 11:35 AM
    chargeback when i paid with paypal 22nd Sep 16 at 11:35 AM
    Hi everyone, to cut a long story short. I purchased an item off a well known app (not fleabay) and paid via paypal. I've read if the money was "loaded" into the account and you paid via the account balance, then a chargeback is pretty impossible. I however, did not do this. Instead i just paid straight off my debit card but via paypal.

    The item was meant to arrive from the UK but instead arrived from Russia a few weeks later, an obvious fake. I tried contacting paypal about how the item was counterfeit but all they do is tell me to return it. A return would cost in the region of £13 and yet the item was under £30. What chance do i have of doing a chargeback when i've paid via paypal?

    I have the template downloaded and ready to fill in, i've tried looking on HSBC website about debit card chargebacks and can't find anything. If anyone has an address where to send chargebacks to with HSBC that would also be appreciated
Page 1
    • shaun from Africa
    • By shaun from Africa 22nd Sep 16, 11:44 AM
    • 8,465 Posts
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    shaun from Africa
    • #2
    • 22nd Sep 16, 11:44 AM
    • #2
    • 22nd Sep 16, 11:44 AM
    There is a good chance that it will work but before proceeding there is one point to bear in mind.
    I've read of a few instances where following a successful chargeback, Paypal have decided to close the account of the person who requested the chargeback.
    • meer53
    • By meer53 22nd Sep 16, 11:45 AM
    • 8,212 Posts
    • 11,622 Thanks
    meer53
    • #3
    • 22nd Sep 16, 11:45 AM
    • #3
    • 22nd Sep 16, 11:45 AM
    Call HSBC. No good sending stuff if they won't do the chargeback in the first place.
    You will need proof that the item is fake and will probably be asked to return it.
    • Moneyineptitude
    • By Moneyineptitude 22nd Sep 16, 12:09 PM
    • 16,826 Posts
    • 7,471 Thanks
    Moneyineptitude
    • #4
    • 22nd Sep 16, 12:09 PM
    • #4
    • 22nd Sep 16, 12:09 PM
    There is no way a Chargeback will be granted just because a Bank's customer claims that an item is "an obvious fake". There will have to be evidence that the item is fake. Where it was sent from is not evidence.
    There is also no way there will be a refund and the customer allowed to keep the "obvious fake". The Chargeback will be to Paypal who have already instructed the customer to return the goods. Paypal would therefore be very likely to contest the Chargeback and the OP will be back to square one.

    Why hasn't the OP contacted the seller?
    • cupid07
    • By cupid07 22nd Sep 16, 12:21 PM
    • 99 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    cupid07
    • #5
    • 22nd Sep 16, 12:21 PM
    • #5
    • 22nd Sep 16, 12:21 PM
    There is no way a Chargeback will be granted just because a Bank's customer claims that an item is "an obvious fake". There will have to be evidence that the item is fake. Where it was sent from is not evidence.
    There is also no way there will be a refund and the customer allowed to keep the "obvious fake". The Chargeback will be to Paypal who have already instructed the customer to return the goods. Paypal would therefore be very likely to contest the Chargeback and the OP will be back to square one.

    Why hasn't the OP contacted the seller?
    Originally posted by Moneyineptitude
    Hi, I should have explained better. The item was meant to be a ralph lauren item but the tags on the inside are "getty" with a fake pony on the front. So its pretty obvious as the tags are a completely different brand. I could also claim via the chargeback item not as described as the tags that were on the listing were completely different to the one i got. I have contacted the seller, I have in writing that the item is fake and they offered me a partial refund.
    • Moneyineptitude
    • By Moneyineptitude 22nd Sep 16, 12:26 PM
    • 16,826 Posts
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    Moneyineptitude
    • #6
    • 22nd Sep 16, 12:26 PM
    • #6
    • 22nd Sep 16, 12:26 PM
    I have contacted the seller, I have in writing that the item is fake and they offered me a partial refund.
    Originally posted by cupid07
    You are surely then entitled to a full refund from the seller? Why are you going to your Bank rather than demanding a refund (and the cost of returning the goods)from the seller?
    • cupid07
    • By cupid07 22nd Sep 16, 12:31 PM
    • 99 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    cupid07
    • #7
    • 22nd Sep 16, 12:31 PM
    • #7
    • 22nd Sep 16, 12:31 PM
    You are surely then entitled to a full refund from the seller? Why are you going to your Bank rather than demanding a refund (and the cost of returning the goods)from the seller?
    Originally posted by Moneyineptitude
    I've asked for a refund, the seller is refusing one. They are only willing to offer a partial refund. Hence my next course of action is surely a chargeback?
    • wealdroam
    • By wealdroam 22nd Sep 16, 12:41 PM
    • 17,126 Posts
    • 13,597 Thanks
    wealdroam
    • #8
    • 22nd Sep 16, 12:41 PM
    • #8
    • 22nd Sep 16, 12:41 PM
    I've asked for a refund, the seller is refusing one. They are only willing to offer a partial refund. Hence my next course of action is surely a chargeback?
    Originally posted by cupid07
    Surely opening a Paypal 'Significantly Not As Described' case is the way to go?

    Send the thing back via a tracked service and Paypal will refund you.

    A chargeback only makes sense if you, and anyone else in your household, never want to use Paypal again.
    • cupid07
    • By cupid07 22nd Sep 16, 12:56 PM
    • 99 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    cupid07
    • #9
    • 22nd Sep 16, 12:56 PM
    • #9
    • 22nd Sep 16, 12:56 PM
    Surely opening a Paypal 'Significantly Not As Described' case is the way to go?

    Send the thing back via a tracked service and Paypal will refund you.

    A chargeback only makes sense if you, and anyone else in your household, never want to use Paypal again.
    Originally posted by wealdroam
    Done that. I have been told to return it but a)returning counterfeits is illegal b)the return address is a different address to the one on the invoice, one which doesn't exist.

    So sending back to a non-existent address and paying £13 for the pleasure of doing so is utterly pointless. A chargeback is the last thing i want to do but i've exhausted all other avenues?
    • bris
    • By bris 22nd Sep 16, 12:58 PM
    • 6,016 Posts
    • 4,919 Thanks
    bris
    Didn't the fact it was under £30 give it away, you need to take responsibility for your online shopping. When it's to good to be true it is.
    • cupid07
    • By cupid07 22nd Sep 16, 1:02 PM
    • 99 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    cupid07
    Didn't the fact it was under £30 give it away, you need to take responsibility for your online shopping. When it's to good to be true it is.
    Originally posted by bris
    £30 for a RL t-shirt? Are you serious? on selfridges website they are £25/£30. Not like I purchased it for £2, pretty much paid near retail.
    • peachyprice
    • By peachyprice 22nd Sep 16, 1:06 PM
    • 17,066 Posts
    • 38,770 Thanks
    peachyprice
    Done that. I have been told to return it but a)returning counterfeits is illegal b)the return address is a different address to the one on the invoice, one which doesn't exist.

    So sending back to a non-existent address and paying £13 for the pleasure of doing so is utterly pointless. A chargeback is the last thing i want to do but i've exhausted all other avenues?
    Originally posted by cupid07
    Ask Paypal for a returns label then.
    Accept your past without regret, handle your present with confidence and face your future without fear
    • cupid07
    • By cupid07 22nd Sep 16, 1:11 PM
    • 99 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    cupid07
    Ask Paypal for a returns label then.
    Originally posted by peachyprice
    Paypal have specified they do not provide returns labels/pay for postage.
    • wealdroam
    • By wealdroam 22nd Sep 16, 1:16 PM
    • 17,126 Posts
    • 13,597 Thanks
    wealdroam
    I have the template downloaded and ready to fill in, i've tried looking on HSBC website about debit card chargebacks and can't find anything. If anyone has an address where to send chargebacks to with HSBC that would also be appreciated
    Originally posted by cupid07
    What template?

    Just give HSBC a ring. Use the customer services number on the back of your card.


    £30 for a RL t-shirt? Are you serious? on selfridges website they are £25/£30. Not like I purchased it for £2, pretty much paid near retail.
    Originally posted by cupid07
    Why didn't you buy from Selfridges?

    Who did you buy from?
    • peachyprice
    • By peachyprice 22nd Sep 16, 1:22 PM
    • 17,066 Posts
    • 38,770 Thanks
    peachyprice
    Paypal have specified they do not provide returns labels/pay for postage.
    Originally posted by cupid07
    They do, I've had them before.
    Accept your past without regret, handle your present with confidence and face your future without fear
    • cupid07
    • By cupid07 22nd Sep 16, 1:32 PM
    • 99 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    cupid07
    They do, I've had them before.
    Originally posted by peachyprice
    Only via fleabay, support have specified in comments to me that they aren't offering paid returns.
    • m0bov
    • By m0bov 22nd Sep 16, 2:00 PM
    • 778 Posts
    • 521 Thanks
    m0bov
    You won't get a chargeback as Paypal are an intermediary and you did'nt pay the seller directly. This has been around on here before.
    • cupid07
    • By cupid07 22nd Sep 16, 2:10 PM
    • 99 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    cupid07
    You won't get a chargeback as Paypal are an intermediary and you did'nt pay the seller directly. This has been around on here before.
    Originally posted by m0bov
    Taken from thisismoney:

    In using PayPal, the actual act of loading the money into your account is considered to be the transaction.
    This means the transaction is with PayPal, not with the seller you've bought a product from.

    You could potentially still make a chargeback claim against a PayPal purchase, if you can show you used your debit or credit card to specifically make the purchase through PayPal.
    • meer53
    • By meer53 22nd Sep 16, 3:08 PM
    • 8,212 Posts
    • 11,622 Thanks
    meer53
    Done that. I have been told to return it but a)returning counterfeits is illegal b)the return address is a different address to the one on the invoice, one which doesn't exist.

    So sending back to a non-existent address and paying £13 for the pleasure of doing so is utterly pointless. A chargeback is the last thing i want to do but i've exhausted all other avenues?
    Originally posted by cupid07
    The card company dont need proof the seller has received the item back, just proof you have sent it back. Not quite so utterly pointless if it gets you your money back.

    As already asked, why didn't you buy from Selfridges ?
    • shaun from Africa
    • By shaun from Africa 22nd Sep 16, 3:22 PM
    • 8,465 Posts
    • 9,506 Thanks
    shaun from Africa
    You won't get a chargeback as Paypal are an intermediary and you did'nt pay the seller directly. This has been around on here before.
    Originally posted by m0bov
    You're thinking of a "section 75" claim which is invalidated when paying via a third party.
    A chargeback is different and if you have a quick look on the discussion and Q&A forums on ebay.co.uk, you will find literally hundreds of cases where chargebacks via paypal have been successful.
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