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  • FIRST POST
    • adonis10
    • By adonis10 22nd Sep 16, 8:27 AM
    • 1,035Posts
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    adonis10
    HL stocks and shares isa - investment advice
    • #1
    • 22nd Sep 16, 8:27 AM
    HL stocks and shares isa - investment advice 22nd Sep 16 at 8:27 AM
    So, I have made the switch from the expensive Virgin S&S all share tracker to HL. However, I am have the predicament of choosing between the multitude of funds to invest in. Firstly, my attitude to risk is probably around medium as I'm young enough to allow the investment to build up over a number of years and it is frankly not enough to cry about if things don't go so well; currently 2.1k and plan to top up with £300 per month.


    Any advice?
    Last edited by adonis10; 22-09-2016 at 9:56 AM.
Page 2
    • adonis10
    • By adonis10 22nd Sep 16, 5:12 PM
    • 1,035 Posts
    • 106 Thanks
    adonis10
    I moved from Virgin to HL about 5 years ago when I finally realised my Virgin S&S ISA was costing me a fortune and I wanted some more diversification.

    So far I have been very happy with them - their website is very easy to use and whenever I've needed to use their support they have been very helpful. However my portfolio is now getting to the size where the fees are starting to add up so I will probably be looking to change again in the next year.
    Originally posted by Doshwaster
    Did you ever see an itemisation of the management charges? In the 5 years I had it, it never once showed up on the online history or paper statements..
    • jimjames
    • By jimjames 22nd Sep 16, 5:23 PM
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    jimjames
    Fair enough. To be fair it looks better than Virgin and is less than half the cost so I'm going in the right direction.

    Can you change providers more than once in a year?
    Originally posted by adonis10
    You can change providers as often as you want - but too frequently might be prohibitive cost wise.


    HL is a very good, user friendly platform and as you've found still way cheaper than Virgin.
    Remember the saying: if it looks too good to be true it almost certainly is.
    • weenie15
    • By weenie15 23rd Sep 16, 1:10 PM
    • 51 Posts
    • 42 Thanks
    weenie15
    As your portfolio grows, as others have said, HL's 0.45% fee will start to be a little on the expensive side.

    However, if you invest in shares, investment trusts or ETFs, the fee is capped at £45 for the year.
    • Doshwaster
    • By Doshwaster 23rd Sep 16, 2:09 PM
    • 4,380 Posts
    • 3,503 Thanks
    Doshwaster
    Did you ever see an itemisation of the management charges? In the 5 years I had it, it never once showed up on the online history or paper statements..
    Originally posted by adonis10
    I just had a look in my account and there is a breakdown of the monthly management charge (0.45% of the value of the funds). The ongoing charges for individual funds are harder to track as the fees are just reflected in the price of the unit.

    At present I'm paying around £9 a month on a S&S ISA worth around £25,000.
    • badger09
    • By badger09 23rd Sep 16, 3:22 PM
    • 4,108 Posts
    • 3,337 Thanks
    badger09
    Did you ever see an itemisation of the management charges? In the 5 years I had it, it never once showed up on the online history or paper statements..
    Originally posted by adonis10
    I just had a look in my account and there is a breakdown of the monthly management charge (0.45% of the value of the funds). The ongoing charges for individual funds are harder to track as the fees are just reflected in the price of the unit.

    At present I'm paying around £9 a month on a S&S ISA worth around £25,000.
    Originally posted by Doshwaster
    I think adonis10 was asking if you ever saw itemised management charges in the Virgin S&S ISA (not Hargreaves Lansdown)
    • jimjames
    • By jimjames 23rd Sep 16, 4:11 PM
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    jimjames
    I think adonis10 was asking if you ever saw itemised management charges in the Virgin S&S ISA (not Hargreaves Lansdown)
    Originally posted by badger09
    I'm guessing as the Virgin product is sold directly that they have a single annual management fee and have no requirement to itemise out platform costs separately so you'd never know what you were paying - another reason they're able to get away with such a high fee.
    Remember the saying: if it looks too good to be true it almost certainly is.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 23rd Sep 16, 4:44 PM
    • 84,116 Posts
    • 49,096 Thanks
    dunstonh
    Virgin funds were bundled pricing. Not unbundled.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. Different people have different needs and what is right for one person may not be for another. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from a Financial Adviser local to you.
    • jimjames
    • By jimjames 23rd Sep 16, 4:50 PM
    • 10,454 Posts
    • 8,433 Thanks
    jimjames
    Virgin funds were bundled pricing. Not unbundled.
    Originally posted by dunstonh
    Are they able to remain bundled if they are selling direct with no platform?
    Remember the saying: if it looks too good to be true it almost certainly is.
    • joujou
    • By joujou 23rd Sep 16, 6:24 PM
    • 114 Posts
    • 72 Thanks
    joujou
    As your portfolio grows, as others have said, HL's 0.45% fee will start to be a little on the expensive side.

    However, if you invest in shares, investment trusts or ETFs, the fee is capped at £45 for the year.
    Originally posted by weenie15
    It is capped at 45 for shares. What do you do that hl becomes expensive for you? Thanks
    • AndyT678
    • By AndyT678 23rd Sep 16, 8:44 PM
    • 608 Posts
    • 800 Thanks
    AndyT678
    It is capped at 45 for shares. What do you do that hl becomes expensive for you? Thanks
    Originally posted by joujou
    OEICs presumably. Like very many others, myself included.
    • jimjames
    • By jimjames 23rd Sep 16, 8:49 PM
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    • 8,433 Thanks
    jimjames
    It is capped at 45 for shares. What do you do that hl becomes expensive for you? Thanks
    Originally posted by joujou
    HL would cost me about £800 per year. Iweb would be one off £200 fee.
    Remember the saying: if it looks too good to be true it almost certainly is.
    • bowlhead99
    • By bowlhead99 23rd Sep 16, 8:57 PM
    • 4,658 Posts
    • 8,186 Thanks
    bowlhead99
    It is capped at 45 for shares. What do you do that hl becomes expensive for you? Thanks
    Originally posted by joujou
    If you are investing in open ended funds (oeics / icvcs, unit trusts) then the uncapped 0.45% a year - only reducing for new investments once you are already paying fees on hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of those funds - is getting on for twice the price of other percentage-based platforms.

    For people just starting out whose only investment is a year's worth of ISA allowance, it's not particularly expensive to pay the 0.45% fee to hold funds with them, because it's only a few pounds a month more than the competition. But still, a fee getting on for twice the price of the competition is expensive. And at larger levels of investment it will become an even larger multiple of what you'd have to pay a flat fee provider.

    And if your portfolio is composed of shares and investment trusts or ETFs, the £45 annual admin fee on a £10k+ pot for holding shares at HL is (for example) 50% higher than the £30 capped fee at Youinvest and infinity percent higher than the waived fee at TD Direct, two providers I use.

    As this is a moneysaving site, HL often comes in for criticism on its fees, it's only at small values that they're tolerable really in the face of the competition. But those fees do pay for lots of customer service if you are the kind of customer who needs lots of customer service.
    • grey gym sock
    • By grey gym sock 23rd Sep 16, 9:34 PM
    • 3,754 Posts
    • 3,150 Thanks
    grey gym sock
    it's amazing how an infinity percent difference in charges comes to less money than i have on me in cash

    though i only use HL to hold shares etc in a taxable account, for which the annual charges are nil. (and also still own some shares in HL.)
    • Doshwaster
    • By Doshwaster 24th Sep 16, 9:46 AM
    • 4,380 Posts
    • 3,503 Thanks
    Doshwaster
    I think adonis10 was asking if you ever saw itemised management charges in the Virgin S&S ISA (not Hargreaves Lansdown)
    Originally posted by badger09
    Ah - sorry, I misunderstood. No, I can't remember seeing any fees breakdown for Virgin but my understanding was that it was just a flat 1% which was taken into account with the unit price. 1% charge for a FTSE All Share tracker was very expensive.
    • roomaniac
    • By roomaniac 24th Sep 16, 1:34 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    roomaniac
    HL better than Virgin
    For a novice investor like me, HL is a good option. It is not the cheapest, but has good support and information. The choice of funds may be daunting, but that is the point. With Virgin I had a choice between a small number of funds that did not perform very well and charged a high fee.
    The HL Watchlist is a good tool to help you keep track of recommendations that you come across. it is a good idea to note and follow a fund for a bit, rather than jump straight in. The Times Money section has done well for me, but I usually wait until I have seen 2-3 recommendations before further investigation of a fund. Do look at the underlying holdings to help understand the risk.
    I would not use HL to buy into individual shares. It is an expensive option for smaller investors. HL seem to be able to use their size to obtain discounts in the fees for many funds. However, make sure you are aware of the fees and any spread in buy/sell prices. More experienced investors will scoff that I even mentioned it, but for those new to fund and share picking, it is an obvious trap.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 24th Sep 16, 1:35 PM
    • 84,116 Posts
    • 49,096 Thanks
    dunstonh
    Are they able to remain bundled if they are selling direct with no platform?
    Originally posted by jimjames
    Yes. Unbundling only applies to where third parties are involved (i.e. platforms and advisers)
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. Different people have different needs and what is right for one person may not be for another. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from a Financial Adviser local to you.
    • bigadaj
    • By bigadaj 24th Sep 16, 1:53 PM
    • 7,385 Posts
    • 4,423 Thanks
    bigadaj
    For a novice investor like me, HL is a good option. It is not the cheapest, but has good support and information. The choice of funds may be daunting, but that is the point. With Virgin I had a choice between a small number of funds that did not perform very well and charged a high fee.
    The HL Watchlist is a good tool to help you keep track of recommendations that you come across. it is a good idea to note and follow a fund for a bit, rather than jump straight in. The Times Money section has done well for me, but I usually wait until I have seen 2-3 recommendations before further investigation of a fund. Do look at the underlying holdings to help understand the risk.
    I would not use HL to buy into individual shares. It is an expensive option for smaller investors. HL seem to be able to use their size to obtain discounts in the fees for many funds. However, make sure you are aware of the fees and any spread in buy/sell prices. More experienced investors will scoff that I even mentioned it, but for those new to fund and share picking, it is an obvious trap.
    Originally posted by roomaniac
    I don't want to be too critical and you make some good points but this is quite a naive assessment.

    HLs watchlist has historically been a recommendation based in their commissions or fees, so best to ignore.

    HL actually isn't too bad for small investors, it is very expensive for larger investors in many circumstances.

    The fee reductions touted by hl are generally lower than the increased platform fee they charge compared to others.

    A huge range of fund options can be a problem for new investors, for many in this case the use of multi asset funds from large providers such as vanguard, fidelity, legal and general, black rock etc

    HL are better than Virgin but that doesn't mean they are anywhere near the best, it's like saying Norwich are better than Bradford city in football terms, whilst ignoring man city, Barcelona, Bayern Munich etc
    • roomaniac
    • By roomaniac 24th Sep 16, 2:27 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    roomaniac
    small correction
    your points about the discounts are fair.

    However, watch lists are just lists of funds or stocks that you want to note. HL does not create them or add their recommendations to them. That is more like their Wealth 150+ list or their recommended portfolio's, which you are right to urge caution on.
    Watchlist are just a way to remember stocks or funds that you have being considering.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 24th Sep 16, 2:40 PM
    • 84,116 Posts
    • 49,096 Thanks
    dunstonh
    The HL Watchlist is a good tool to help you keep track of recommendations that you come across.
    Can only echo the other responses who rightly state that it is a marketing list. It is not a recommendation list.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. Different people have different needs and what is right for one person may not be for another. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from a Financial Adviser local to you.
    • jimjames
    • By jimjames 24th Sep 16, 2:52 PM
    • 10,454 Posts
    • 8,433 Thanks
    jimjames
    Can only echo the other responses who rightly state that it is a marketing list. It is not a recommendation list.
    Originally posted by dunstonh
    I think roomaniac is referring to the HL website functionality to monitor and track fund prices in a list without buying, not the Wealth150 marketing lists.

    https://www.hl.co.uk/watchlists
    Remember the saying: if it looks too good to be true it almost certainly is.
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