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  • FIRST POST
    • GoldenEye_
    • By GoldenEye_ 21st Sep 16, 10:28 PM
    • 3Posts
    • 1Thanks
    GoldenEye_
    Nps pcn
    • #1
    • 21st Sep 16, 10:28 PM
    Nps pcn 21st Sep 16 at 10:28 PM
    Hi everyone !

    Unfortunately i have fallen victim to these low life's....

    So I attend some very good friends of mine wedding, I purchase a ticket to park at the venue for the day. Its one of these machines where you have to put the reg number in so it appears on the ticket.

    Some 10 hours later i return to the car after the event and i am greeted with a PCN. I look at my dash where i left my day ticket and its gone Somehow it had ended up on the floor on the driver side.

    I thought ah well I have a ticket with my reg number on etc. all will be fine .......

    Unfortunately I was very naive and i appealed the PCN accepting liability as the driver and owner of the car. Obviously its was dismissed on the grounds that i did not display the ticket correctly. I even sent them evidence of the ticket i purchased.

    I appealed to the IAS which i read are just as corrupt as the operators. They dismissed my appeal with the following:

    "I am satisfied from the photographs provided by the Operator that no valid ticket was properly displayed in the vehicle. For the avoidance of doubt, the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) has been issued as no ticket was properly displayed in the vehicle. The Appellant states in their appeal that they purchased a ticket, but the images provided by the Operator mean that I am satisfied that no ticket was properly available for inspection at the time the PCN was issued. It appears to be accepted that the ticket purchased slipped/fell from the dashboard, coming to rest in the footwell of the vehicle so that the details on the ticket were unavailable for inspection. The photographs, taken at the point of issue, show the Appellantís vehicle without correctly displaying a valid ticket. As stated above, the guidance to this appeal makes it clear that I am bound by the law of contract and can only consider legal challenges not mistakes or extenuating circumstances. For this reason, I am satisfied that as no ticket was correctly displayed in the vehicle at the time the PCN was issued, as suggested by the Operator, that the prima facie case has been proven. I am satisfied as to the location of the contravention, that the correct vehicle has been identified parked at the time suggested in the images provided and that the correct Appellant is pursued.

    It is the driverís responsibility to ensure that a ticket is purchased and that this ticket is correctly displayed in the vehicle. By allowing the vehicle to be parked without a valid ticket properly displayed, even if mitigating circumstances exist, the Appellant became liable to pay a charge. It is clear from the evidence provided that no ticket was properly available for inspection at the time that the PCN was issued. I note the Appellant may have obtained a ticket however this point is largely irrelevant, as the issue here is that the ticket was not correctly displayed.

    Whilst having some sympathy with the Appellant, once liability has been established only the Operator has the discretion to vary or cancel the parking charge based on mitigating circumstances. I am satisfied that the Parking Charge Notice has been issued correctly and accordingly this appeal is dismissed."


    So is there any point in fighting this ? I keep thinking i paid for ticket, nobody is at a loss here. Why should i pay another £100 in a fine. But if there is no point in fighting it i will just pay up its less hassle than a potential court visit and the worry that it comes with.

    The ticket wasnt even an adhesive one so i couldnt stick to anything, a gust of wind up the air vent could have even moved it to the floor.
Page 1
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 21st Sep 16, 11:19 PM
    • 38,410 Posts
    • 49,851 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #2
    • 21st Sep 16, 11:19 PM
    • #2
    • 21st Sep 16, 11:19 PM
    So is there any point in fighting this ?
    If you mean do you need to do anything right now, rush a decision - no.

    If you mean do you need to pay it - no.

    If you mean can you appeal further - no.

    Sit tight; you should never have bothered with IAS as you were bound to lose.

    But if there is no point in fighting it i will just pay up its less hassle than a potential court visit and the worry that it comes with
    Well if you mean that you think it's bound to go to court now, that's not the case. If this 'NPS' is Northern Parking Services then you can count their attempts at court this year on one hand:

    http://www.bmpa.eu/companydata/Northern_Parking_Services_North_East.html

    If they ever do try a small claim you can settle any time before the hearing (not much more than the £100 even then) so it is NOT a stark choice of having to pay up now to avoid a scary hearing, you can do that later if they try. Or you could defend it!

    Basically, we encourage no payment because if you do, you are supporting the scam and funding the next few PCNs against a little old lady or struggling family.

    Here, we fight back and the worst case scenario (as long as you do not miss court papers, make sure they have your correct address) is if a person merely loses at a hearing and pays. Typically £175 all told, no big deal, no CCJ, no repercussions, black marks nor sitting on the naughty step. You need no help to ignore them at this stage. Come back if they try a claim.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • GoldenEye_
    • By GoldenEye_ 21st Sep 16, 11:46 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    GoldenEye_
    • #3
    • 21st Sep 16, 11:46 PM
    • #3
    • 21st Sep 16, 11:46 PM
    Thanks for the advice !

    Yes that is the operator in question, I'm going to do as you suggest and hang tight with this one.

    Do you think IF this got as far as a court room I would stand any chance of winning?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 21st Sep 16, 11:59 PM
    • 38,410 Posts
    • 49,851 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #4
    • 21st Sep 16, 11:59 PM
    • #4
    • 21st Sep 16, 11:59 PM
    Most likely on signage (take some photos this month if you can get back there and keep them for 6 years just in case). PPCs change signs so you'd be best to have some - or did lots get given to you in the IAS appeal evidence? If so, then screenshot and save them because the IAS won't let you have access for very long, to the file.

    In addition, you could use an argument like the one used in a POPLA appeal by IanMSpencer, adapting it to form part of a defence (even though this is about a 'permit' slipping, a P&D ticket slipping lends itself to the same common sense argument of the huge charge being the very definition of 'unconscionable' under the circs):

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=71339517#post71339517

    But yes, you would have a case, not least because you had to put your VRN in so the ticket cannot be anyone else's and there can be no dispute that payment was made of the full tariff - trying to recover a 'disproportionate sum' when only a small sum was alleged owed (a tariff) breaches the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

    Keep the P&D ticket in your file as well, all of it for 6 years.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • GoldenEye_
    • By GoldenEye_ 22nd Sep 16, 8:02 AM
    • 3 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    GoldenEye_
    • #5
    • 22nd Sep 16, 8:02 AM
    • #5
    • 22nd Sep 16, 8:02 AM
    Yes they supplied plenty of images in their case case against me. I will get on and screen shot the images.

    Ok well as you think I have a case then I will certainly see this through. For me it's common sense and should have been scrapped from the start. But I'm not dealing with reasonable people here, just scum bags out to make money regardless of how they do it.

    I've tried to find out the owners of the car park but that's even proving difficult. This way I would contact them and explain the situation, surely they would see sense ?
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