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    • Wasabi74
    • By Wasabi74 21st Sep 16, 6:01 PM
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    Wasabi74
    REMO when the RP is the one moving abroad
    • #1
    • 21st Sep 16, 6:01 PM
    REMO when the RP is the one moving abroad 21st Sep 16 at 6:01 PM
    Hello,

    I'm after some advice please. Most of the posts re REMO on here seem to be related to the NRP/paying parent moving abroad, however my case is the opposite; I have recently moved abroad with my two children and the second I have left the UK my ex husband has stopped his child maintenance payments (amount confirmed by CSA after him not paying for months but he's been paying directly to me whilst in the UK for the past three years). He has messaged multiple times in the past few weeks confirming that now that I have 'taken his children away' (I won a lengthy Leave to Remove case at court before I was able to move abroad) he won't be paying a penny moving forward. As I understand it legally he is not obliged to continue paying the amount dictated by CSA but I can claim child maintenance via REMO.

    My question are... is REMO7 the form I need to complete and mail over to the court in the UK? Is the process likely to be as lengthy as if he was the one living abroad, taking into account that CSA has all the details already and access to his tax records etc as well as his UK address etc or it being REMO involved will it likely take months too? I'm currently living in Spain if it makes any difference... And, will the order will be the same one that CSA has in place with regards to the amount or will the Spanish courts issue a new one with new amounts? (child maintenance amounts in Spain are significantly higher and could be advantageous to have a new order drafted here if possible...)

    Thank you in advance.
Page 1
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 22nd Sep 16, 3:28 PM
    • 11,251 Posts
    • 10,567 Thanks
    Guest101
    • #2
    • 22nd Sep 16, 3:28 PM
    • #2
    • 22nd Sep 16, 3:28 PM
    I'm confused, what arrangement have you made for the children to have contact with their father?
    • HoneyNutLoop
    • By HoneyNutLoop 22nd Sep 16, 6:08 PM
    • 438 Posts
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    HoneyNutLoop
    • #3
    • 22nd Sep 16, 6:08 PM
    • #3
    • 22nd Sep 16, 6:08 PM
    The CSA will have nothing to do with your REMO case - they only have jurisdiction if both parents are habitually resident in the UK. However, if you are still owed arrears from your closed CSA case, you can still ask them to pursue collection/enforcement of them.

    This is a link to the gov.uk page on REMO where the receiving parent lives abroad:
    https://www.gov.uk/child-maintenance-if-one-parent-lives-abroad/paying-parent-lives-in-the-uk

    Hopefully it will point you in the right direction. However, the starting point is that you will need a current child maintenance decision/court order. Your CSA calculation will not count, because your case will close from the date you ceased to be habitually resident in the UK.
    I often use a tablet to post, so sometimes my posts will have random letters inserted, or entirely the wrong word if autocorrect is trying to wind me up. Hopefully you'll still know what I mean.
    • Wasabi74
    • By Wasabi74 23rd Sep 16, 10:38 AM
    • 50 Posts
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    Wasabi74
    • #4
    • 23rd Sep 16, 10:38 AM
    • #4
    • 23rd Sep 16, 10:38 AM
    Thank you HoneyNut. I do not have a court order per se when it comes to child maintenance though, CSA just calculated the amounts and informed both of us via letter. He then paid (sometimes) directly into my account. So I'm not entirely sure whether I would be able to approach the UK courts for this or if I should go to REMO in Spain directly....
    • MataNui
    • By MataNui 23rd Sep 16, 4:15 PM
    • 634 Posts
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    MataNui
    • #5
    • 23rd Sep 16, 4:15 PM
    • #5
    • 23rd Sep 16, 4:15 PM
    Its likely to be a long process. You will need to go through the UK courts. There is no point whatsoever in you going via the courts in Spain. Your ex is not Spanish nor is he, or ever has been a Spanish resident (as far as you have posted anyway). It would be next to impossible to enforce anything they might do even if they bothered.
    • Wasabi74
    • By Wasabi74 24th Sep 16, 11:02 AM
    • 50 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    Wasabi74
    • #6
    • 24th Sep 16, 11:02 AM
    • #6
    • 24th Sep 16, 11:02 AM
    Thank you. I'll start contacting the UK courts for guidance, thank you.
    • unforeseen
    • By unforeseen 24th Sep 16, 11:46 AM
    • 702 Posts
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    unforeseen
    • #7
    • 24th Sep 16, 11:46 AM
    • #7
    • 24th Sep 16, 11:46 AM
    Unless I'm misunderstanding things, with the PWC and child living in Spain, they will need to get a Spanish maintenance order and can then use the REMO process to enforce in the UK.

    I don't believe that the UK courts have jurisdiction to create an order for a child not resident in the UK
    • Wasabi74
    • By Wasabi74 24th Sep 16, 8:17 PM
    • 50 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    Wasabi74
    • #8
    • 24th Sep 16, 8:17 PM
    • #8
    • 24th Sep 16, 8:17 PM
    Unless I'm misunderstanding things, with the PWC and child living in Spain, they will need to get a Spanish maintenance order and can then use the REMO process to enforce in the UK.

    I don't believe that the UK courts have jurisdiction to create an order for a child not resident in the UK
    Originally posted by unforeseen
    Thank you. You are correct in that the children and myself, the resident parent we live abroad, and the paying parent in the UK and yes, it does definitely make sense since there was never an actual court order in place, just a couple of letters from CSA confirming to both of us how much he should be paying.

    Still conflicting advice though on whether it should be handled by the Spanish or British courts; will probably approach the UK ones for their advice first .....
    • Wasabi74
    • By Wasabi74 24th Sep 16, 8:34 PM
    • 50 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    Wasabi74
    • #9
    • 24th Sep 16, 8:34 PM
    • #9
    • 24th Sep 16, 8:34 PM
    Non Resident Parent living in the UK
    The REMO (Reciprocal Enforcement of Maintenance Orders) agreement with participating countries works both ways. This means that if a parent with care and the child both live abroad, they can apply for a foreign maintenance order which will be enforceable against the non-resident parent who is living in the UK.


    I have found this on a law website; it would indicate to Unforeseen's post being correct in that I would need to apply for a Spanish maintenance order and ask REMO to enforce it in the UK.
    • Wasabi74
    • By Wasabi74 26th Sep 16, 10:46 AM
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    Wasabi74
    Updating for anyone finding themselves in this position in the future.

    I have contacted REMO in the UK directly (contact details below) and they have confirmed that I should indeed contact the Spanish courts in order to apply for a maintenance order. They will then forward it to REMO for processing.


    +44 (0)20 3681 2757
    Fax: 020 3681 8764
    e-mail: remo@offsol.gsi.gov.uk
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 26th Sep 16, 11:13 AM
    • 33,719 Posts
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    silvercar
    Updating for anyone finding themselves in this position in the future.

    I have contacted REMO in the UK directly (contact details below) and they have confirmed that I should indeed contact the Spanish courts in order to apply for a maintenance order. They will then forward it to REMO for processing.


    +44 (0)20 3681 2757
    Fax: 020 3681 8764
    e-mail: remo@offsol.gsi.gov.uk
    Originally posted by Wasabi74
    Presumably the Spanish courts will apply their own guidelines on what is an appropriate level of maintenance, based on some combination of assumed living costs in Spain and ex's income. I can't see why Spanish courts would use CSA (UK) calculators to work out maintenance levels.
    • MataNui
    • By MataNui 26th Sep 16, 11:55 AM
    • 634 Posts
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    MataNui
    I can see this getting messy. Just browsing the other REMO threads suggests event a straightforward one is actually not that straightforward.

    I see a couple of issues with this one:
    The Spanish courts would need your exes income details. There is nothing in law to compel him to provide this information to the Spanish authorities and no way they can check if he tells them a total pile of BS or not. REMO is about enforcement of maintenance orders and presumably there needs to be an order before REMO can actually happen. How can an order be made without income details?

    Secondly REMO is not automatic. He can simply ignore the order and the UK courts wont routinely enforce it. The OP will need to chase it via solicitors and courts in Spain to get them to chase the UK. courts who then 'may' chase the NRP. All i can say about getting anyone in Spain to do anything to anything other than the Spanish timeframes are 'Good luck with that'.
    • Wasabi74
    • By Wasabi74 26th Sep 16, 12:12 PM
    • 50 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    Wasabi74
    I can see this getting messy. Just browsing the other REMO threads suggests event a straightforward one is actually not that straightforward.

    I see a couple of issues with this one:
    The Spanish courts would need your exes income details. There is nothing in law to compel him to provide this information to the Spanish authorities and no way they can check if he tells them a total pile of BS or not. REMO is about enforcement of maintenance orders and presumably there needs to be an order before REMO can actually happen. How can an order be made without income details?
    '.
    Originally posted by MataNui
    Wouldn't a recent letter from CSA confirming his gross weekly amount likely suffice as his income details you think? They had access to his tax records and this could be easily confirmed by REMO?
    • jondav
    • By jondav 26th Sep 16, 1:12 PM
    • 223 Posts
    • 97 Thanks
    jondav
    I'm confused, what arrangement have you made for the children to have contact with their father?
    Originally posted by Guest101
    I second this question (seeing as it was never answered) - when are the children going to see their father now that you have taken them abroad?
    • Wasabi74
    • By Wasabi74 26th Sep 16, 3:06 PM
    • 50 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    Wasabi74
    I second this question (seeing as it was never answered) - when are the children going to see their father now that you have taken them abroad?
    Originally posted by jondav
    There is a Contact schedule in place as dictated by the judge as part of the Leave to Remove court case. Whether their father actually complies with it and flies over to see their children is entirely a different matter

    I hope that answers your question.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 26th Sep 16, 3:14 PM
    • 11,251 Posts
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    Guest101
    There is a Contact schedule in place as dictated by the judge as part of the Leave to Remove court case. Whether their father actually complies with it and flies over to see their children is entirely a different matter

    I hope that answers your question.
    Originally posted by Wasabi74


    Not really, Basically he's obviously liable for child maintenance, which is fair enough, but flying isn't that cheap, as well as accommodation when there, + expense of simply being abroad. As well as obviously not having a 'normal' relationship, which includes spending regular time with both parents.


    There must be a really important reason for the move abroad.
    • Wasabi74
    • By Wasabi74 26th Sep 16, 3:24 PM
    • 50 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    Wasabi74
    Not really, Basically he's obviously liable for child maintenance, which is fair enough, but flying isn't that cheap, as well as accommodation when there, + expense of simply being abroad. As well as obviously not having a 'normal' relationship, which includes spending regular time with both parents.


    There must be a really important reason for the move abroad.
    Originally posted by Guest101

    I am not going to discuss the details and personal reasons of my move to Spain with my children; all you need to know is that if that a judge heard both sides at great length and decided it was fair for me to move, then there must have been some very good reasons for it.

    I will not justify myself to a stranger over the internet, and will leave it at that. Thank you to everyone else who has helped with useful advice on previous posts.
    Last edited by Wasabi74; 26-09-2016 at 3:27 PM.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 26th Sep 16, 3:27 PM
    • 11,251 Posts
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    Guest101
    I am not going to discuss the details and personal reasons of my move to Spain with my children; all you need to know if that a judge heard both sides at great length and decided it was fair for me to move, then there must have been some very good reasons for it.

    I will not justify myself to a stranger over the internet, and will leave it at that.
    Originally posted by Wasabi74


    Let's hope that doesn't come to bite you in the behind, if your children down the line feel aggrieved that contact with their father was prevented for some unknown reason. (presumably a new partner)


    On which note I similarly wont share my knowledge with yourself.


    Good day.
    • Wasabi74
    • By Wasabi74 26th Sep 16, 3:29 PM
    • 50 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    Wasabi74
    Let's hope that doesn't come to bite you in the behind, if your children down the line feel aggrieved that contact with their father was prevented for some unknown reason. (presumably a new partner)

    .
    Originally posted by Guest101
    Wrong. Happily single
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 26th Sep 16, 3:32 PM
    • 11,251 Posts
    • 10,567 Thanks
    Guest101
    Wrong. Happily single
    Originally posted by Wasabi74


    In most cases sudden emigration is down to a new partner.


    Either way, whatever the reason, forget legality for a second, needs to be morally acceptable to your children. Often this isn't the case. And in many cases as children get older they yearn for more contact with the absent parent, blaming the RP, and in some cases even choose to return to the NRP.
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