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  • FIRST POST
    • scotty1971
    • By scotty1971 21st Sep 16, 2:49 PM
    • 1,610Posts
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    scotty1971
    Cat D Car
    • #1
    • 21st Sep 16, 2:49 PM
    Cat D Car 21st Sep 16 at 2:49 PM
    As some of you may be aware i was looking for a car to go camping with,but have decided i will leave till next year.However i was having a look through Gumtree and camE across this car,looked a good buy at the price advertised.And the seller seemed keen to sell and at no point did he mention it was a Cat D insurance claim. I put in the car details for an AA inspection who flagged it up, that they would not inspect it due to it possibly being part of a insurance claim.The owner eventually admitted it was a Cat D!!. Seems quite handy you can put the reg in on the AA website and flags this up.So hopefully he may change his advert.

    https://www.gumtree.com/p/mazda/2013-mazda-5-venture-edition-2.0-petrol-7-seats-6-speed-low-mileage-28600-new-car-/1188650303
Page 1
    • shaun from Africa
    • By shaun from Africa 21st Sep 16, 3:08 PM
    • 8,451 Posts
    • 9,487 Thanks
    shaun from Africa
    • #2
    • 21st Sep 16, 3:08 PM
    • #2
    • 21st Sep 16, 3:08 PM
    So hopefully he may change his advert.
    Originally posted by scotty1971
    A quick Google search on their phone number shows that the seller in question is a trader masquerading as a private seller so I wouldn't rely on them to be too truthful in their adverts.


    https://www.gumtree.com/p/mazda/2013-mazda-5-venture-edition-2.0-petrol-7-seats-6-speed-low-mileage-28600-new-car-/1188650303

    http://uk.tixuz.com/vehicles/mini/2010-mini-cooper-1-6-petrol--grey--mileage-only-28000!!!!/9417910

    http://uk.tixuz.com/vehicles/vauxhall/2006-vauxhal-corsa-1-2-blue!-petrol!!-!mileage-only-34k!!!!/9261089

    https://www.gumtree.com/p/renault/2008-honda-accord-2.2-black-diesel-mileage-only-73k-/1174063991

    And many more!
    • BeenThroughItAll
    • By BeenThroughItAll 21st Sep 16, 3:58 PM
    • 3,231 Posts
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    BeenThroughItAll
    • #3
    • 21st Sep 16, 3:58 PM
    • #3
    • 21st Sep 16, 3:58 PM
    Might just be me, but I'm not surprised, that front bumper on the Mazda looks to be obviously a different shade to the rest of the front end, which would put me off immediately. That and the proliferation of random explanation marks in the ad, and the seller's suggestion it is "NEW CAR", when it's patently obvious it's a three year old sprogbus.
    • scotty1971
    • By scotty1971 21st Sep 16, 3:58 PM
    • 1,610 Posts
    • 437 Thanks
    scotty1971
    • #4
    • 21st Sep 16, 3:58 PM
    • #4
    • 21st Sep 16, 3:58 PM
    A quick Google search on their phone number shows that the seller in question is a trader masquerading as a private seller so I wouldn't rely on them to be too truthful in their adverts.

    And many more!
    Originally posted by shaun from Africa
    Well he got back to saying the damage was "Front bumper and scrached passenger door all is fixed" surely on a car of that age it would not be a Cat D but i could be wrong.
    • Hintza
    • By Hintza 21st Sep 16, 4:18 PM
    • 18,530 Posts
    • 12,776 Thanks
    Hintza
    • #5
    • 21st Sep 16, 4:18 PM
    • #5
    • 21st Sep 16, 4:18 PM
    Well he got back to saying the damage was "Front bumper and scrached passenger door all is fixed" surely on a car of that age it would not be a Cat D but i could be wrong.
    Originally posted by scotty1971
    You would be surprised in some instances.

    I always buy written off cars these days but I but them raw (ie still damaged) and repair. They tend to die here then head of to Poland or Nigeria when sold as spares or repair.
    Truth is like poetry. Most people don't like poetry!
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 21st Sep 16, 5:14 PM
    • 11,185 Posts
    • 9,477 Thanks
    AdrianC
    • #6
    • 21st Sep 16, 5:14 PM
    • #6
    • 21st Sep 16, 5:14 PM
    Do we even need google the number to suspect the seller is trying to pretend he isn't a trader?!?...! The wording of the ad alone did a great job of that - and it being SORNed is just the icing on the cake.....?!?

    A snidge under 10k/yr isn't even particularly low mileage.

    Still, just look down that spec list in the ad! It's got a heated rear window!!! And a fuel gauge!!!!!!!!!
    • Joe Horner
    • By Joe Horner 21st Sep 16, 5:34 PM
    • 3,532 Posts
    • 2,853 Thanks
    Joe Horner
    • #7
    • 21st Sep 16, 5:34 PM
    • #7
    • 21st Sep 16, 5:34 PM
    Well he got back to saying the damage was "Front bumper and scrached passenger door all is fixed" surely on a car of that age it would not be a Cat D but i could be wrong.
    Originally posted by scotty1971
    Don't forget, cat D is NOT a "beyond economic repair" write off - that's cat C. Cat D is for where the insurers have decided to pay out as a total loss for "some other reason".

    Which might be stolen then recovered after the claim's been paid, or difficulty getting a bumper in a reasonable time so hire costs are mounting up, or quite a few other reasons that may include minimal - or even no - damage.
    • EdGasket
    • By EdGasket 22nd Sep 16, 4:08 PM
    • 2,909 Posts
    • 1,158 Thanks
    EdGasket
    • #8
    • 22nd Sep 16, 4:08 PM
    • #8
    • 22nd Sep 16, 4:08 PM
    That and the proliferation of random explanation marks in the ad,
    Originally posted by BeenThroughItAll
    'explanation marks' - they sound really useful; my English education has obviously been lacking in some areas.
    • prowla
    • By prowla 22nd Sep 16, 5:24 PM
    • 9,392 Posts
    • 7,355 Thanks
    prowla
    • #9
    • 22nd Sep 16, 5:24 PM
    • #9
    • 22nd Sep 16, 5:24 PM
    Well, I don't quite get how a 2013 car with 28k is a "NEW CAR!!!"
    • deanos
    • By deanos 24th Sep 16, 8:29 AM
    • 10,641 Posts
    • 5,472 Thanks
    deanos
    Might just be me, but I'm not surprised, that front bumper on the Mazda looks to be obviously a different shade to the rest of the front end, which would put me off immediately. That and the proliferation of random explanation marks in the ad, and the seller's suggestion it is "NEW CAR", when it's patently obvious it's a three year old sprogbus.
    Originally posted by BeenThroughItAll
    Many cars don't have matching bumpers , some are very obvious especially Vauxhalls, so not always a sign of a repair
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 24th Sep 16, 9:05 AM
    • 13,410 Posts
    • 7,057 Thanks
    motorguy
    Don't forget, cat D is NOT a "beyond economic repair" write off - that's cat C. Cat D is for where the insurers have decided to pay out as a total loss for "some other reason".

    Which might be stolen then recovered after the claim's been paid, or difficulty getting a bumper in a reasonable time so hire costs are mounting up, or quite a few other reasons that may include minimal - or even no - damage.
    Originally posted by Joe Horner
    No.

    That is not the official description. The definition is " a Category D car is one that has suffered accident damage that would cost less to repair than its value"

    Please lets not pretend that a car could be a Cat D and never been damaged.

    On a 2013 car the accident damage is very likely to have been significant.
    Regards

    Paul
    • cjdavies
    • By cjdavies 24th Sep 16, 9:10 AM
    • 1,589 Posts
    • 1,275 Thanks
    cjdavies
    Well he got back to saying the damage was "Front bumper and scrached passenger door all is fixed" surely on a car of that age it would not be a Cat D but i could be wrong.
    Originally posted by scotty1971
    He knew it was a Cat D and did not disclose it in the ad, then admits it after, I would take their word on anything afterwards.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 24th Sep 16, 9:12 AM
    • 13,410 Posts
    • 7,057 Thanks
    motorguy
    Just to keep a sense of perspective for people, have a look down these 2013 Cat D cars on the Copart salvage site and then decide if you'd really want your family in a repaired salvage car that was put back together with minimal cost to ensure maximum profit for the trader....

    http://www.copart.co.uk/uk/search?companyCode_vf=UK&Sort=sd&LotTypes=V&YearFr om=2013&YearTo=2013&Make=&FilterCodes=D4&RadioGrou p=Location&YardNumber=&States=&PostalCode=&Distanc e=99999&searchTitle=2013-2013%2C%2CCAT+D+-+Salvage%2C&cn=2013-2013%2C%2CD4%2C

    "Just needed a bumper and a bonnet pal"

    Regards

    Paul
    • BeenThroughItAll
    • By BeenThroughItAll 24th Sep 16, 9:21 AM
    • 3,231 Posts
    • 2,549 Thanks
    BeenThroughItAll
    'explanation marks' - they sound really useful; my English education has obviously been lacking in some areas.
    Originally posted by EdGasket
    Damn it. Finally fallen foul of autocorrect.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 24th Sep 16, 9:31 AM
    • 11,185 Posts
    • 9,477 Thanks
    AdrianC
    No.

    That is not the official description. The definition is " a Category D car is one that has suffered accident damage that would cost less to repair than its value"
    Originally posted by motorguy
    If you're going to go on about the "official definition", then you could try actually giving the ABI's definition...

    "REPAIRABLE total loss vehicles where repair costs including VAT do not exceed the vehicle’s PAV."
    https://www.abi.org.uk/~/media/Files/Documents/Publications/Public/Migrated/Motor/Code%20of%20practice%20for%20disposal%20of%20motor %20vehicle%20salvage.ashx
    ...and it goes on to explicitly include stolen vehicles.

    So, no, there is not necessarily any significant damage. If something's stolen, in circumstances which give little likelihood of recovery, the insurer may well choose to pay out early to minimise hire car costs. If the car is then recovered, it's categorised and put into a salvage auction. That might be CatX - stolen, recovered, minimal damage - or it might be D. The relatively low damage would mean a good price would be raised.
    http://www.copart.co.uk/uk/Lot/22578836
    http://www.copart.co.uk/uk/Lot/29006836

    Or it might have been vandalised...
    http://www.copart.co.uk/uk/Lot/21649736

    Or it might be very minor fire damage...
    http://www.copart.co.uk/uk/Lot/28314526
    http://www.copart.co.uk/uk/Lot/28381106
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 24th Sep 16, 9:47 AM
    • 13,410 Posts
    • 7,057 Thanks
    motorguy
    If you're going to go on about the "official definition", then you could try actually giving the ABI's definition...

    "REPAIRABLE total loss vehicles where repair costs including VAT do not exceed the vehicle’s PAV."
    https://www.abi.org.uk/~/media/Files/Documents/Publications/Public/Migrated/Motor/Code%20of%20practice%20for%20disposal%20of%20motor %20vehicle%20salvage.ashx
    ...and it goes on to explicitly include stolen vehicles.

    So, no, there is not necessarily any significant damage. If something's stolen, in circumstances which give little likelihood of recovery, the insurer may well choose to pay out early to minimise hire car costs. If the car is then recovered, it's categorised and put into a salvage auction. That might be CatX - stolen, recovered, minimal damage - or it might be D. The relatively low damage would mean a good price would be raised.
    http://www.copart.co.uk/uk/Lot/22578836
    http://www.copart.co.uk/uk/Lot/29006836

    Or it might have been vandalised...
    http://www.copart.co.uk/uk/Lot/21649736

    Or it might be very minor fire damage...
    http://www.copart.co.uk/uk/Lot/28314526
    http://www.copart.co.uk/uk/Lot/28381106
    Originally posted by AdrianC
    Yes, absolutely. But lets not pretend that all these Cat D cars that are on gumtree / autotrader / eby and usually being sold by unscrupulous traders masquerading as private sellers all just happened to need "a bumper and a wing".

    Anyone dealing in repairing this sort of salvage is making their money by minimising the repair costs. That will include (but not limited to) - using second hand parts or unknown history (and not necessarily off the same model), repairing panels that should have been replaced, not repairing / replacing out of sight damage, making unchecked structural repairs, welding up cracked alloy wheels, using fillers / fibreglass to "hide" damage and not returning the car to its original spec (a common one is replacing expensive damaged xenon lights with normal lights)

    And its always funny how they never have pics of the pre accident damage isnt it?
    Regards

    Paul
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 24th Sep 16, 9:49 AM
    • 11,185 Posts
    • 9,477 Thanks
    AdrianC
    Yes, absolutely. But lets not pretend that all these Cat D cars that are on gumtree / autotrader / eby and usually being sold by unscrupulous traders masquerading as private sellers all just happened to need "a bumper and a wing".
    Originally posted by motorguy
    Indeed. But, equally, let's not pretend they're all totally fubar.

    CatD is a very broad church. There are many cars that, but for a minor paperwork wrinkle, would have been repaired by the insurer with zero paper trail. And insurance repairs are not always a paragon of perfection, are they...?

    Anyone dealing in repairing this sort of salvage is making their money by minimising the repair costs. That will include (but not limited to) - using second hand parts or unknown history (and not necessarily off the same model), repairing panels that should have been replaced, not repairing / replacing out of sight damage, making unchecked structural repairs, welding up cracked alloy wheels, using fillers / fibreglass to "hide" damage and not returning the car to its original spec (a common one is replacing expensive damaged xenon lights with normal lights)
    Because nobody would EVER do that rather than claim...
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 24th Sep 16, 11:24 AM
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    motorguy

    Indeed. But, equally, let's not pretend they're all totally fubar.
    Originally posted by AdrianC
    Exactly. And i'm not pretending they are.

    But lets remember we are on a money saving forum here where people may consider a Cat D or Cat C repaired car to be an instant bargain.

    Therefore it would be extremely foolish to give people a belief that a Cat D repair is likely just to have been because the insurance company decided they didnt really want to repair it, or that it just needed a bumper and a wing and it was instantly back to its pre accident condition.

    These cars are sold as salvage. Yes, there are some that need little repair however it would be very unwise to believe - or set the belief - that all were subject to merely superficial damage.


    Because nobody would EVER do that rather than claim...
    Originally posted by AdrianC
    True. However the bulk of the people who are buying up these salvage cars and putting them back on the road know all the corners to cut so you genuinely are putting your head into the lions mouth even approaching them.

    My advice to anyone considering a Cat D / Cat C salvage car thats been put back on the road is to ignore the sellers "it just needed a bumper and a wing" claims, ignore the online "oh oh it probably just was stolen recovered or the insurance company didnt really fancy the idea of repairing it because it was a friday afternoon and they wanted to get home" brigade and PROCEED WITH EXTREME CAUTION.
    Regards

    Paul
    • Hintza
    • By Hintza 24th Sep 16, 12:06 PM
    • 18,530 Posts
    • 12,776 Thanks
    Hintza
    That is why I prefer to buy direct from copart and I have a rule of thumb not to buy if the airbags have gone off which in the main keeps things simple.
    Truth is like poetry. Most people don't like poetry!
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 24th Sep 16, 12:52 PM
    • 13,410 Posts
    • 7,057 Thanks
    motorguy
    That is why I prefer to buy direct from copart and I have a rule of thumb not to buy if the airbags have gone off which in the main keeps things simple.
    Originally posted by Hintza
    +1

    Absolutely agree.
    Regards

    Paul
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