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    • Lord Baltimore
    • By Lord Baltimore 21st Sep 16, 2:34 PM
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    Lord Baltimore
    Under Construction
    • #1
    • 21st Sep 16, 2:34 PM
    Under Construction 21st Sep 16 at 2:34 PM
    So whenever you watch one of these house renovation programmes, invariably the decision is taken to move a (load-bearing) wall or whatever to modernise the space and make it more user-friendly for the current occupant. In which case, why don't developers building new homes these days incorporate a steel skeleton so that future changes in usage can be done with less fuss and as frequently as needs be?

    Cost will be a consideration but there's all that cheap Chinese steel to be used or better still reinvigorate the ailing steel works at Port Talbot who could supply developers with the raw material for all the new, steel-framed homes that could be built.

    I'm sure future buyers would find the flexibility to adapt living space without all those visible steel beams attractive, and the blokes at DIY SOS, Grand Designs, Building the Dream in the 2030's etc would have a much easier time of it! As would of course all us home owners who can change our living space with less upheaval and as often as we like.

    Ok, I must be missing something; what is it?
    Last edited by Lord Baltimore; 21-09-2016 at 2:38 PM.
    The views expressed are my opinion, nothing more, nothing less.
Page 1
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 21st Sep 16, 2:37 PM
    • 11,214 Posts
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    Guest101
    • #2
    • 21st Sep 16, 2:37 PM
    • #2
    • 21st Sep 16, 2:37 PM
    Build them cheap and stack them high....


    Developers aren't interested in building quality homes
    • Lord Baltimore
    • By Lord Baltimore 21st Sep 16, 2:42 PM
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    Lord Baltimore
    • #3
    • 21st Sep 16, 2:42 PM
    • #3
    • 21st Sep 16, 2:42 PM
    Build them cheap and stack them high....


    Developers aren't interested in building quality homes
    Originally posted by Guest101
    But won't Developer's build what the market demands?
    The views expressed are my opinion, nothing more, nothing less.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 21st Sep 16, 2:48 PM
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    Guest101
    • #4
    • 21st Sep 16, 2:48 PM
    • #4
    • 21st Sep 16, 2:48 PM
    But won't Developer's build what the market demands?
    Originally posted by Lord Baltimore


    Have you seen the rabbit hutches?


    How much demand is there for 2 up 2 down terraced properties, who actually wants that?


    People are like sheep, desperate to get on the ladder and grateful to the builder for providing them with the opportunity to buy a 'house'


    National housing shortage... Build it cheap, stack it high and watch them flock to live in a cardboard box.
    • Grenage
    • By Grenage 21st Sep 16, 3:31 PM
    • 667 Posts
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    Grenage
    • #5
    • 21st Sep 16, 3:31 PM
    • #5
    • 21st Sep 16, 3:31 PM
    There's nothing in it for the builders.

    If you have two houses for sale, both ostensibly the same but one built as you describe, with a 10k difference in price - the buyers are going to go for the cheaper house every time.
    • Lord Baltimore
    • By Lord Baltimore 21st Sep 16, 3:40 PM
    • 1,133 Posts
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    Lord Baltimore
    • #6
    • 21st Sep 16, 3:40 PM
    • #6
    • 21st Sep 16, 3:40 PM
    Have you seen the rabbit hutches?


    How much demand is there for 2 up 2 down terraced properties, who actually wants that?


    People are like sheep, desperate to get on the ladder and grateful to the builder for providing them with the opportunity to buy a 'house'


    National housing shortage... Build it cheap, stack it high and watch them flock to live in a cardboard box.
    Originally posted by Guest101
    You're making a social statement. I am simply wondering if property that is constructed in an inherently more easily adaptable way for the range of differing occupants it will accommodate would be more user-friendly, desirable and functional. And not all new builds are for FTB's.

    There's nothing in it for the builders.

    If you have two houses for sale, both ostensibly the same but one built as you describe, with a 10k difference in price - the buyers are going to go for the cheaper house every time.
    Originally posted by Grenage
    I did say cost would be an issue but I'm not so convinced it would be a deal breaker. Eventually it will be an absorbed cost in market values. Perhaps there could be a subsidised construction programme to get the ball rolling. After all, traditional builds won't keep pace with population increase.
    Last edited by Lord Baltimore; 21-09-2016 at 3:46 PM.
    The views expressed are my opinion, nothing more, nothing less.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 21st Sep 16, 3:46 PM
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    Guest101
    • #7
    • 21st Sep 16, 3:46 PM
    • #7
    • 21st Sep 16, 3:46 PM
    You're making a social statement. - Buying property is a social market. I am simply wondering if property that is constructed in an inherently more easily adaptable way for the range of differing occupants it will accommodate would be more user-friendly, desirable and functional. - Of course it would. Just like buying a Brand new BMW would be more reliable than a 10 year old Citroen. And not all new builds are for FTB's.
    Originally posted by Lord Baltimore


    I agree not all new builds are for FTBs


    Many are bought up by BTL landlords


    Others by growing families


    And yet others by would be middle classes looking for a suburban environment.


    However that still doesn't change my statement that builders on the whole build cheap, knowing that they will sell because people are desperate to 'achieve' ownership, whether that's up-sizing, down sizing or FTBs.


    You cannot simply ignore a market trend because of a social stance.
    • Lord Baltimore
    • By Lord Baltimore 21st Sep 16, 4:00 PM
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    Lord Baltimore
    • #8
    • 21st Sep 16, 4:00 PM
    • #8
    • 21st Sep 16, 4:00 PM
    I agree not all new builds are for FTBs


    Many are bought up by BTL landlords


    Others by growing families


    And yet others by would be middle classes looking for a suburban environment.


    However that still doesn't change my statement that builders on the whole build cheap, knowing that they will sell because people are desperate to 'achieve' ownership, whether that's up-sizing, down sizing or FTBs.


    You cannot simply ignore a market trend because of a social stance.
    Originally posted by Guest101
    So, as far as you're concerned, there is no merit in the idea suggested in my OP?
    The views expressed are my opinion, nothing more, nothing less.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 21st Sep 16, 4:32 PM
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    Guest101
    • #9
    • 21st Sep 16, 4:32 PM
    • #9
    • 21st Sep 16, 4:32 PM
    So, as far as you're concerned, there is no merit in the idea suggested in my OP?
    Originally posted by Lord Baltimore


    No there's merit, absolutely.


    There's just not the market for it.


    I'd say a specialist builder, or perhaps developments which accommodate people with disabilities could be interested in this, but the market is so small it's basically easier just to build bespoke
    • phill99
    • By phill99 21st Sep 16, 4:59 PM
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    phill99
    Mass House builders are only interested in doing what is appropriate for them to sell the house to the first buyer. They aren't interested in long term adaptions, or what some one may or may not do at some unknown point in the future. They aren't going to increase their cost base just for your benefit.
    Eat vegetables and fear no creditors, rather than eat duck and hide.
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 21st Sep 16, 6:04 PM
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    agrinnall
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BISF_house
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 21st Sep 16, 6:30 PM
    • 21,954 Posts
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    Doozergirl
    Houses can be better than the crud being churned out by mass developers. And far better houses are built, but not by mass developers. Until building regs are strengthened yet again, people will continue to be sold inferior product.

    We all deserve better than that, they hold us all back, but it's all about the money.
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 21st Sep 16, 7:44 PM
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    AdrianC
    But won't Developer's build what the market demands?
    Originally posted by Lord Baltimore
    The developers' "market" demands bling, bedrooms, and bull. Propped up with some government financial incentives. The "market" really isn't any more discerning than that...
    • Lord Baltimore
    • By Lord Baltimore 21st Sep 16, 9:06 PM
    • 1,133 Posts
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    Lord Baltimore
    I know Developers are in it for the money but perhaps we have reached a point at which their continued profit has to be better married with the impending crisis. Our population is growing; and the homes being built are often quickly out-grown by the occupants; they need more in-built flexibility so that families can adapt them as their family grows rather than going through the expense of moving (which they can ill-afford).

    We are also on the cusp on a huge house building programme and with an eye on one of our only remaining manufacturing industries, steel production, the Government might take the initiative: build houses that are future-proofed and keeping steel makers in a job.

    We talk enough of the housing crisis on this forum and no-one can be happy that thousands of people could be out of work if Port Talbot folds.

    I suppose it's a post-Brexit idea. It may an idea full of holes but are we being more negative than the Remain campaign?
    The views expressed are my opinion, nothing more, nothing less.
    • Bluebirdman of Alcathays
    • By Bluebirdman of Alcathays 21st Sep 16, 9:19 PM
    • 2,377 Posts
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    Bluebirdman of Alcathays
    Port talbot isn't anywhere near close to folding, trust me on that. They are operationally profitable once again.
    • Lord Baltimore
    • By Lord Baltimore 21st Sep 16, 9:21 PM
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    Lord Baltimore
    Port talbot isn't anywhere near close to folding, trust me on that. They are operationally profitable once again.
    Originally posted by Bluebirdman of Alcathays
    Great! Thank you.
    The views expressed are my opinion, nothing more, nothing less.
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 22nd Sep 16, 2:59 PM
    • 8,222 Posts
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    lincroft1710
    Some years ago there were some modular timber built homes which were constructed so that the internal partitions could be unbolted and moved. Although built in Britain I think the designer/architect was from Scandinavia. The idea obviously never caught on.
    • bod1467
    • By bod1467 22nd Sep 16, 3:18 PM
    • 14,775 Posts
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    bod1467
    It's an interesting idea, and it does have some merit. But the only way it would happen is if:

    a) It was mandated for new builds (backed up be legislation/building regs); and

    b) The scheme was subsidised
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    • Lord Baltimore
    • By Lord Baltimore 22nd Sep 16, 4:08 PM
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    Lord Baltimore
    Some years ago there were some modular timber built homes which were constructed so that the internal partitions could be unbolted and moved. Although built in Britain I think the designer/architect was from Scandinavia. The idea obviously never caught on.
    Originally posted by lincroft1710
    British homebuyers are used to buying property that is substantial, which is why a good deal of our housing stock is over a hundred years old and has survived 2 world wars. But this kind of building is no longer tenable or necessary. Current day design focuses more on heat efficient living space but with less substantial construction materials (although I think steel will last long enough!).

    Modular timber is used to construct huf houses which I think are catching on so the principle of a different kind of home may be becoming more acceptable.

    It's an interesting idea, and it does have some merit. But the only way it would happen is if:

    a) It was mandated for new builds (backed up be legislation/building regs); and

    b) The scheme was subsidised
    Originally posted by bod1467
    Precisely. It would need to be a Government initiative killing two birds with one stone: easily constructed but flexible living space for the increasing demand and business for our steel industry.
    Last edited by Lord Baltimore; 22-09-2016 at 4:13 PM.
    The views expressed are my opinion, nothing more, nothing less.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 22nd Sep 16, 4:17 PM
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    Guest101
    British homebuyers are used to buying property that is substantial, which is why a good deal of our housing stock is over a hundred years old and has survived 2 world wars. - I suspect new builds wont last anywhere near as long before requires substantial investment. But this kind of building is no longer tenable or necessary. Current day design focuses more on heat efficient living space but with less substantial construction materials (although I think steel will last long enough!). - Modern designs place profit above all else.

    Modular timber is used to construct huf houses which I think are catching on so the principle of a different kind of home may be becoming more acceptable. - I think people would be happy to buy that type of property, however for developers it's much more of a head ache.



    Precisely. It would need to be a Government initiative killing two birds with one stone: easily constructed but flexible living space for the increasing demand and business for our steel industry.
    Originally posted by Lord Baltimore


    Can I ask, what's the purpose of your question? Are you looking for investment opportunity?
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