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    • Mary83
    • By Mary83 21st Sep 16, 10:25 AM
    • 13Posts
    • 0Thanks
    Mary83
    First Time Buyer, being delayed due to deeds??
    • #1
    • 21st Sep 16, 10:25 AM
    First Time Buyer, being delayed due to deeds?? 21st Sep 16 at 10:25 AM
    Hi Guys.

    We are in the process of buying our first home, we have the mortgage sorted, home buyer report back ( got a slight reduction in price due to things coming back on this) We paid the solicitor the search fees 3 weeks a go and we have now just been advised by the estate agent that there is a delay. The person who owned the house has passed away and the property has been left to his son. Apparently he is is the process of registering the deeds in his name but they are having to track down the original deeds? Is this a normal thing to happen? Do I need to be worried, and do I need to do anything? We are getting lots of conflicting advice from family and friends, so are advising us to pull out???
    Any advice would be really appreciated.

    Many thanks
    Mary
Page 1
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 21st Sep 16, 10:45 AM
    • 11,204 Posts
    • 9,492 Thanks
    AdrianC
    • #2
    • 21st Sep 16, 10:45 AM
    • #2
    • 21st Sep 16, 10:45 AM
    If the property hasn't changed hands, or had any mortgage taken out or repaid, since the '80s, then it won't have been registered on the central Land Registry, so the only official record of ownership is the paper deeds.

    The son is getting it registered with the Land Registry in his name, so the actual transfer to you will be a simple LR one - but first he has to get the paperwork together to prove his father's ownership. Assuming that can all be found, then there shouldn't be any problem and - if there is - it's his problem to sort it. It may introduce a bit of a delay, but less than the delay (and expense) caused by starting to look again.
    • Mary83
    • By Mary83 21st Sep 16, 10:55 AM
    • 13 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Mary83
    • #3
    • 21st Sep 16, 10:55 AM
    • #3
    • 21st Sep 16, 10:55 AM
    If the property hasn't changed hands, or had any mortgage taken out or repaid, since the '80s, then it won't have been registered on the central Land Registry, so the only official record of ownership is the paper deeds.

    The son is getting it registered with the Land Registry in his name, so the actual transfer to you will be a simple LR one - but first he has to get the paperwork together to prove his father's ownership. Assuming that can all be found, then there shouldn't be any problem and - if there is - it's his problem to sort it. It may introduce a bit of a delay, but less than the delay (and expense) caused by starting to look again.
    Originally posted by AdrianC
    Thank you Adrian, I was worried that it was going to be complicated process, have you any idea on how long the delay will be? The estate agent said anywhere between 1 week and 3 months?

    Many thanks
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 21st Sep 16, 10:59 AM
    • 11,204 Posts
    • 9,492 Thanks
    AdrianC
    • #4
    • 21st Sep 16, 10:59 AM
    • #4
    • 21st Sep 16, 10:59 AM
    Thank you Adrian, I was worried that it was going to be complicated process, have you any idea on how long the delay will be? The estate agent said anywhere between 1 week and 3 months?
    Originally posted by Mary83
    The LR Rep on here can give a better idea of the time their processes will take for a straightforward first registration. On top of that, you've got to allow however long it will take the son and his solicitor to get the paperwork together. How long IS that piece of string...?
    • martindow
    • By martindow 21st Sep 16, 11:08 AM
    • 6,490 Posts
    • 3,480 Thanks
    martindow
    • #5
    • 21st Sep 16, 11:08 AM
    • #5
    • 21st Sep 16, 11:08 AM
    Isn't it a matter of getting probate first? This is going to cause the delay rather than registration. The time taken depends to a great extent how quickly the executors get the paperwork together and apply for the grant of probate, but it is likely to be a month or two as a minimum.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 21st Sep 16, 11:20 AM
    • 11,204 Posts
    • 9,492 Thanks
    AdrianC
    • #6
    • 21st Sep 16, 11:20 AM
    • #6
    • 21st Sep 16, 11:20 AM
    Two separate issues. Probate is the executors being able to close the estate and distribute bequests. LR registration is getting Grandad's house on the LR system.
    • Mary83
    • By Mary83 21st Sep 16, 11:21 AM
    • 13 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Mary83
    • #7
    • 21st Sep 16, 11:21 AM
    • #7
    • 21st Sep 16, 11:21 AM
    Isn't it a matter of getting probate first? This is going to cause the delay rather than registration. The time taken depends to a great extent how quickly the executors get the paperwork together and apply for the grant of probate, but it is likely to be a month or two as a minimum.
    Originally posted by martindow
    Thank you, that is a good point. I will call the Solicitors later and see if the probate has been sorted. To be honest I didn't ask, as I wasn't really sure what it all meant. I naively thought that issues concerning the land registry / deeds etc, would have been sorted before the house was put on the market - lesson learned :-)
    • troubleinparadise
    • By troubleinparadise 21st Sep 16, 11:47 AM
    • 833 Posts
    • 1,418 Thanks
    troubleinparadise
    • #8
    • 21st Sep 16, 11:47 AM
    • #8
    • 21st Sep 16, 11:47 AM
    Thank you, that is a good point. I will call the Solicitors later and see if the probate has been sorted. To be honest I didn't ask, as I wasn't really sure what it all meant. I naively thought that issues concerning the land registry / deeds etc, would have been sorted before the house was put on the market - lesson learned :-)
    Originally posted by Mary83
    Very reasonable expectation! But this is one of the joys (not!) of house purchase...

    Hopefully the vendor's solicitors did check that Probate had been granted already - fingers crossed
  • Land Registry representative
    • #9
    • 22nd Sep 16, 11:32 AM
    • #9
    • 22nd Sep 16, 11:32 AM
    AdrianC has covered it already and as mentioned there are a few things to confirm

    Probate is crucial as without it the executor cannot deal with the legal ownership of the property. As mentioned that can take some time to obtain.

    He'll also need it to register the property of course but locating the deeds also needs to happen. Whilst you could proceed with the purchase and then register it yourselves it is becoming rarer for solicitors/lenders to agree to this as they see such a purchase as a greater risk as the property is not registered.

    If he can't find the deeds the risk has increased but he can still apply for the title to be registered although the likelihood is he would get a Possessory title and not the Absolute one most achieve. That may not be a major issue but something to then consider with your solicitor to understand that risk and it's impact thereafter.

    So, check he has probate; whether if you are then wanting the property registered before you will complete and whether he found the deeds or not.

    Best case scenario is that he has probate and is registering the deeds already. If so then ask his solicitor to contact us with the details of the sale and a request to expedite matters. If we can we will but much then depends on everything being in order of course. If it is then the time it is likely to take to register will be greatly reduced from the average of 56 working days to a few weeks potentially.

    We are suffering with delays on this type of work currently but where there is a linked sale/purchase we can expedite matters.

    Worth checking as stated and then assessing how long you are prepared to wait and what risks, if any, exist. Your solicitor should be able to advise on all this for you
    ďOfficial Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • Mary83
    • By Mary83 22nd Sep 16, 3:53 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Mary83
    AdrianC has covered it already and as mentioned there are a few things to confirm

    Probate is crucial as without it the executor cannot deal with the legal ownership of the property. As mentioned that can take some time to obtain.

    He'll also need it to register the property of course but locating the deeds also needs to happen. Whilst you could proceed with the purchase and then register it yourselves it is becoming rarer for solicitors/lenders to agree to this as they see such a purchase as a greater risk as the property is not registered.

    If he can't find the deeds the risk has increased but he can still apply for the title to be registered although the likelihood is he would get a Possessory title and not the Absolute one most achieve. That may not be a major issue but something to then consider with your solicitor to understand that risk and it's impact thereafter.

    So, check he has probate; whether if you are then wanting the property registered before you will complete and whether he found the deeds or not.

    Best case scenario is that he has probate and is registering the deeds already. If so then ask his solicitor to contact us with the details of the sale and a request to expedite matters. If we can we will but much then depends on everything being in order of course. If it is then the time it is likely to take to register will be greatly reduced from the average of 56 working days to a few weeks potentially.

    We are suffering with delays on this type of work currently but where there is a linked sale/purchase we can expedite matters.

    Worth checking as stated and then assessing how long you are prepared to wait and what risks, if any, exist. Your solicitor should be able to advise on all this for you
    Originally posted by Land Registry representative
    Thank you so much this advice is just what I have been looking for. I have called the estate agent ( 3 times) today and left voice mails asking for them to call me back so I can find out the status of the probate. We were really hoping for a quick sale as neither us of the vendor are in a chain, I really do not want it dragging on for months and months. Fingers crossed it has all started going through
    • Mary83
    • By Mary83 24th Sep 16, 10:37 AM
    • 13 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Mary83
    Morning guys. Just spoken to the eastate agent. The person who is dealing with me is not in now until Tuesday, however the person I spoke with advised that probabte is sorted and the deeds are with the Halifax. What happens next? Do you think I will have delays or should it all be back on track?
    Many thanks
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