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  • FIRST POST
    • ultimatefighter
    • By ultimatefighter 20th Sep 16, 3:06 PM
    • 115Posts
    • 11Thanks
    ultimatefighter
    Tenant Fees - Infuriating
    • #1
    • 20th Sep 16, 3:06 PM
    Tenant Fees - Infuriating 20th Sep 16 at 3:06 PM
    I am about to move into a property however as a tenant, the agency want £355 in fees.


    £240 for admin
    £115 for check in


    Tenant ref actual cost £20
    Tenancy agreement cost £0 as copied and pasted from others simply time (doesn't take an hour to amend details)
    Survey of Property.


    I spoke with the director of the letting agency who did not want to reduce fees whatsoever. He was not up for negotiating in the slightest.


    What can one do about this aside from pay the £40 to £50 it costs for the survey oneself and avoid the £115


    But the £240 for admin... that's £220 spare..


    the landlord is also being charged.
Page 4
    • Naf
    • By Naf 21st Sep 16, 8:17 PM
    • 2,902 Posts
    • 2,166 Thanks
    Naf
    ...You can choose a different property ( or a different sofa )
    Originally posted by Guest101
    Not if you're poor, have just been handed a S21, and its the only advertised property which you could actually afford. Housing Benefit is calculated on the lowest 30% of rents in the area (and actually not even that, since if that percentile is more expensive than the old LHA rate, the old rate is used instead). It doesn't account in any way for the rents actually available on the market, only whats currently being paid. So lots of us have little choice but to jump on whatever is available which we can actually manage long term.
    So can you not see how callous "well you have a choice, dont you!" sounds? LAs are just playing games and profiteering from people's desperation. Its bad enough when Apple do it, but at least they're not (directly) toying with the roof over people's heads.

    While the sofa is a good analogy, it makes for a terrible comparison.
    Vaccines are a better one (albeit not directly relevant in this country; not until the Selfservatives have destroyed the NHS, anyway). If they're the only ones with a cure, is it fair to price some people out of it completely. After all, they still have the choice of existing treatments so they can just die more slowly... Rock, meet hard place.

    Rampant, unchecked free-market capitalism is rotten to the core. People are not just herds of animals to be driven around 'till they die for the sake of other people's profits.
    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.
    - Mark Twain
    Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon: no matter how good you are at chess, its just going to knock over the pieces and strut around like its victorious.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 21st Sep 16, 8:24 PM
    • 11,214 Posts
    • 10,545 Thanks
    Guest101
    Not if you're poor, have just been handed a S21, and its the only advertised property which you could actually afford. Housing Benefit is calculated on the lowest 30% of rents in the area (and actually not even that, since if that percentile is more expensive than the old LHA rate, the old rate is used instead). It doesn't account in any way for the rents actually available on the market, only whats currently being paid. So lots of us have little choice but to jump on whatever is available which we can actually manage long term.
    So can you not see how callous "well you have a choice, dont you!" sounds? LAs are just playing games and profiteering from people's desperation. Its bad enough when Apple do it, but at least they're not (directly) toying with the roof over people's heads.

    While the sofa is a good analogy, it makes for a terrible comparison.
    Vaccines are a better one (albeit not directly relevant in this country; not until the Selfservatives have destroyed the NHS, anyway). If they're the only ones with a cure, is it fair to price some people out of it completely. After all, they still have the choice of existing treatments so they can just die more slowly... Rock, meet hard place.

    Rampant, unchecked free-market capitalism is rotten to the core. People are not just herds of animals to be driven around 'till they die for the sake of other people's profits.
    Originally posted by Naf
    I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this

    The 'cure' is to buy a house, that is plainly out of reach. - using your example
    • bigfreddiel
    • By bigfreddiel 21st Sep 16, 11:10 PM
    • 3,775 Posts
    • 1,719 Thanks
    bigfreddiel
    If you don't like these fees buy somewhere!

    Oh no! I can hear it now! I can't afford it! Everything is too expensive and so on.

    It's always been like this.

    When I bought in the 1970's on my wages of £50/week I had to buy a tiny two bed terraced house, no heating, no double glazing, no garage, no garden. Miles from work, but I could just afford it.

    There was no way I could live where my parents lived, in anything near as big.

    We bought second hand furniture, didn't go on holidays abroad, never had a take away, visited the pub on Saturday night.

    Did I mention 9% interest rate on your mortgage!

    So kids, buy something you can afford, ditch Netflix, iPhones, new cars, foreign holidays, all new furniture, start small.

    That's what we all did, just get on with it.

    Good luck, fj
    • itchyfeet123
    • By itchyfeet123 21st Sep 16, 11:55 PM
    • 168 Posts
    • 126 Thanks
    itchyfeet123
    If you don't like these fees buy somewhere!

    Oh no! I can hear it now! I can't afford it! Everything is too expensive and so on.

    It's always been like this.

    When I bought in the 1970's on my wages of £50/week I had to buy a tiny two bed terraced house, no heating, no double glazing, no garage, no garden. Miles from work, but I could just afford it.

    There was no way I could live where my parents lived, in anything near as big.

    We bought second hand furniture, didn't go on holidays abroad, never had a take away, visited the pub on Saturday night.

    Did I mention 9% interest rate on your mortgage!

    So kids, buy something you can afford, ditch Netflix, iPhones, new cars, foreign holidays, all new furniture, start small.

    That's what we all did, just get on with it.

    Good luck, fj
    Originally posted by bigfreddiel
    And I suppose you walked uphill to school both ways too?

    There's a wealth of data out there showing that housing is less affordable than it used to be. For example, the first google result. When you adjust for inflation (i.e. making your £50 wage comparable to wages today) house prices are more than double. In Q1 1975 the average inflation-adjusted house price was £88k and now it's £204k.

    Yes, I'm sure some people could spend their money more wisely. But I'm beyond tired of hearing how people today are just whiners who should take a lesson from previous generations, without any acknowledgement that in certain domains previous generations had it easier than is the case today.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 22nd Sep 16, 10:45 AM
    • 11,214 Posts
    • 10,545 Thanks
    Guest101
    If you don't like these fees buy somewhere!

    Oh no! I can hear it now! I can't afford it! Everything is too expensive and so on.

    It's always been like this.

    When I bought in the 1970's on my wages of £50/week I had to buy a tiny two bed terraced house, no heating, no double glazing, no garage, no garden. Miles from work, but I could just afford it.

    There was no way I could live where my parents lived, in anything near as big.

    We bought second hand furniture, didn't go on holidays abroad, never had a take away, visited the pub on Saturday night.

    Did I mention 9% interest rate on your mortgage!

    So kids, buy something you can afford, ditch Netflix, iPhones, new cars, foreign holidays, all new furniture, start small.

    That's what we all did, just get on with it.

    Good luck, fj
    Originally posted by bigfreddiel

    I disagree but on a different point.


    Not everyone wants to buy. In my opinion the rush to buy, leads people to forming relationships too quick and is part of the reason there are so many broken families in this country.
    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 22nd Sep 16, 1:52 PM
    • 653 Posts
    • 814 Thanks
    Cakeguts
    And I suppose you walked uphill to school both ways too?

    There's a wealth of data out there showing that housing is less affordable than it used to be. For example, the first google result. When you adjust for inflation (i.e. making your £50 wage comparable to wages today) house prices are more than double. In Q1 1975 the average inflation-adjusted house price was £88k and now it's £204k.

    Yes, I'm sure some people could spend their money more wisely. But I'm beyond tired of hearing how people today are just whiners who should take a lesson from previous generations, without any acknowledgement that in certain domains previous generations had it easier than is the case today.
    Originally posted by itchyfeet123
    Actually I have just looked up a house that I bought in the early 1980s and compared it with what I could borrow to pay for it now. Then I was up to my maximum borrowing amount. Now I could borrow more than it would cost. I compared the salary that I was earning then with the salary that I would earn now for the same job and I would actually be better off now than I was then. The interest rate of the mortgage was 11%. I couldn't afford to go on holiday. I had to have a car for my job. I couldn't afford to eat out. I couldn't afford a colour television license so had a cheap black and white one. My furniture mostly came from auctions. I had a second hand cooker and a second hand washing machine. Money was very tight.

    In my case property is now cheaper than it was when I bought and borrowing is much cheaper. So if I had bought now I could have afforded a more expensive property.

    You have to be very careful with statistics. You cannot average property values over the whole UK it depends where you live.

    Income tax was 30%.
    Last edited by Cakeguts; 22-09-2016 at 2:45 PM.
    • whatajoke2016
    • By whatajoke2016 22nd Sep 16, 7:24 PM
    • 47 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    whatajoke2016
    Barnard Marcus seem to be the worst for this totaling more than £500
    • BadBehaviour
    • By BadBehaviour 23rd Sep 16, 3:43 AM
    • 221 Posts
    • 56 Thanks
    BadBehaviour
    You're saying that your payment history could be totally trashed with defaults littered over your file, but as long as theres no CCJs, you'd pass a LA check? I'm not convinced...
    Originally posted by Naf
    Why would they see anything beside public info? They're not lenders so they don't have the authority to search for detailed financial info. Do you get to see landlord's credit file to make sure they are gonna pay their mortgage? No.

    Only stuff they see is CCJs, IVAs and bankruptcy.
    • BadBehaviour
    • By BadBehaviour 23rd Sep 16, 4:08 AM
    • 221 Posts
    • 56 Thanks
    BadBehaviour
    No it's what is roughly affordable.

    Your salary is 2.5x the rent. So you aren't over stretched.

    Why are the fees 'unfair'? Is £3 unfair for a burger? Dominos charge £18 for a pizza, is that unfair?

    Unlawful clauses? Safely ignore those.
    Originally posted by Guest101
    Yes it is. A Margherita at a "pizzeria" in Italy costs about 5 euros and it's huge. Compare that to what one costs here at Pizza!!!! etc and I can tell you it's massively overpriced for what you get. I've had it and even some frozen pizzas in Italy can outclass all the Pizzahut and Domino's you can get here.
    Thing is you don't have an alternative here because that's what you can shop at for a pizza takeaway. I don't think you can suggest that people travel to some other country for a cheaper pizza or give it up just because these greedy companies have decided to charge that much unfairly. It's unfair because no way Domino's would charge the equivalent of £18 in Italy for their pizza. No one would buy it because they would have alternatives that are far cheaper and much better.
    They only get away with it because they don't have cheaper and better quality competition in the same place.

    You can apply this to estate agents in a certain area. If that's what you get and no landlords basically do everything on their own, what's a perspective tenant supposed to do? I can't go and live miles away from where I work just because it's cheaper somewhere else that's 50 miles away. It doesn't work that way.
    If someone looks in a certain area despite knowing it's more expensive and agents charge a lot in fees obviously it's because their hands are tied and they can't go and look somewhere else.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 23rd Sep 16, 8:28 AM
    • 11,214 Posts
    • 10,545 Thanks
    Guest101
    Yes it is. A Margherita at a "pizzeria" in Italy costs about 5 euros and it's huge. Compare that to what one costs here at Pizza!!!! etc and I can tell you it's massively overpriced for what you get. I've had it and even some frozen pizzas in Italy can outclass all the Pizzahut and Domino's you can get here.
    Thing is you don't have an alternative here because that's what you can shop at for a pizza takeaway. I don't think you can suggest that people travel to some other country for a cheaper pizza or give it up just because these greedy companies have decided to charge that much unfairly. It's unfair because no way Domino's would charge the equivalent of £18 in Italy for their pizza. No one would buy it because they would have alternatives that are far cheaper and much better.
    They only get away with it because they don't have cheaper and better quality competition in the same place.

    You can apply this to estate agents in a certain area. If that's what you get and no landlords basically do everything on their own, what's a perspective tenant supposed to do? I can't go and live miles away from where I work just because it's cheaper somewhere else that's 50 miles away. It doesn't work that way.
    If someone looks in a certain area despite knowing it's more expensive and agents charge a lot in fees obviously it's because their hands are tied and they can't go and look somewhere else.
    Originally posted by BadBehaviour
    I'm sorry but you are incorrect, you choose not to live 50 miles away. You choose to pay £18 for a pizza.

    No one forces you.

    You want a pizza? Make it yourself ( or in case of housing search for it yourself)

    Or you pay £18 for dominos ( or £400 to a letting agent)

    It's not inherently unfair, because you are not forced to pick a certain career, or certain area or whatever. That's your choice.
    • Naf
    • By Naf 23rd Sep 16, 8:52 AM
    • 2,902 Posts
    • 2,166 Thanks
    Naf
    ...you are not forced to pick a certain career, or certain area or whatever. That's your choice.
    Originally posted by Guest101
    Is it? Is it really?

    This is such an arrogant attitude towards the poor - they should just get a different/better paid job, just like that. Must be lovely living in this dreamworld where poverty is the person's fault, and nothing to do with the economy built by the rich, for the rich, which has one purpose - to keep the rich and powerful rich and powerful.

    When all of your possible options of jobs are minimum wage, and living further away just saves on rent to the same tune as your additional travel costs (if that), you can't save so you can't just move to a different area, you can't study because you need to work...

    Tell me again how thats all fair, reasonable, and an acceptable way to treat people?
    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.
    - Mark Twain
    Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon: no matter how good you are at chess, its just going to knock over the pieces and strut around like its victorious.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 23rd Sep 16, 9:15 AM
    • 11,214 Posts
    • 10,545 Thanks
    Guest101
    Is it? Is it really?

    This is such an arrogant attitude towards the poor - they should just get a different/better paid job, just like that. Must be lovely living in this dreamworld where poverty is the person's fault, and nothing to do with the economy built by the rich, for the rich, which has one purpose - to keep the rich and powerful rich and powerful.

    When all of your possible options of jobs are minimum wage, and living further away just saves on rent to the same tune as your additional travel costs (if that), you can't save so you can't just move to a different area, you can't study because you need to work...

    Tell me again how thats all fair, reasonable, and an acceptable way to treat people?
    Originally posted by Naf
    Sure.

    You see life isn't fair. Now that we can accept such a basic principle, in which no one owes you ( the overall 'you', not specifically 'naf') a living. Life is what you make of it.

    Everyone has access to an education, all the way up to uni. If you choose not to make the most of that, that's not my fault.

    It's not my fault that the only jobs available are minimum wage, but even then the govt tips up low incomes. ( via numerous benefits ).

    Can you point out where the state directly keeps people in poverty? To clarify my point: there is a sizeable tax free allowance, child benefit, c/w tax credits. Housing benefit. Council tax benefit. Free education Free healthcare. Social housing. - I think the poor are fairly well supported.

    If NMW is all that's suitable then those roles are available across the country. So travel would not be required
    • DavidF
    • By DavidF 23rd Sep 16, 9:35 AM
    • 393 Posts
    • 2,308 Thanks
    DavidF
    All this arrogance towards the poor by the upper middle classes and above has come back to bite them in the backside in the past and will do so again. Come the revolution I think many letting agents and landlords will be dressing up as renters to escape the chop until then "they" win.
    • SnooksNJ
    • By SnooksNJ 23rd Sep 16, 9:38 AM
    • 575 Posts
    • 949 Thanks
    SnooksNJ
    With immigration at 300k a year, I suggest you get in and get your head down.
    Originally posted by Marktheshark
    I am interested in your research indicating that I am personally responsible for what estate agents charge.
    • Naf
    • By Naf 23rd Sep 16, 10:26 AM
    • 2,902 Posts
    • 2,166 Thanks
    Naf
    ... life isn't fair.
    Originally posted by Guest101
    Therefore screw anyone who wasn't born in the "right" place, or didn't inherit money, or a million other things which are entirely not their fault? There's a theoretical possibility for them to become a millionnaire, so that makes everything fair?

    State welfare might as well just buy everyone a lottery ticket twice a week and leave it at that, huh?
    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.
    - Mark Twain
    Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon: no matter how good you are at chess, its just going to knock over the pieces and strut around like its victorious.
    • marksoton
    • By marksoton 23rd Sep 16, 10:40 AM
    • 15,816 Posts
    • 35,432 Thanks
    marksoton
    Therefore screw anyone who wasn't born in the "right" place, or didn't inherit money, or a million other things which are entirely not their fault? There's a theoretical possibility for them to become a millionnaire, so that makes everything fair?

    State welfare might as well just buy everyone a lottery ticket twice a week and leave it at that, huh?
    Originally posted by Naf
    Everyone in this country has opportunity. It's a question of whether they choose to take it.
    I'm an idiot troll. Apparently...
    • Naf
    • By Naf 23rd Sep 16, 10:48 AM
    • 2,902 Posts
    • 2,166 Thanks
    Naf
    Everyone in this country has opportunity. It's a question of whether they choose to take it.
    Originally posted by marksoton
    On paper it may look that way, but in reality its simply not true.

    EDIT: Its like sitting on the side of the swimming pool, watching someone get pushed in the deep end, and telling them, "the steps are over there", then blaming them when they don't climb out.
    Last edited by Naf; 23-09-2016 at 10:52 AM.
    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.
    - Mark Twain
    Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon: no matter how good you are at chess, its just going to knock over the pieces and strut around like its victorious.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 23rd Sep 16, 11:15 AM
    • 11,214 Posts
    • 10,545 Thanks
    Guest101
    All this arrogance towards the poor by the upper middle classes and above has come back to bite them in the backside in the past and will do so again. Come the revolution I think many letting agents and landlords will be dressing up as renters to escape the chop until then "they" win.
    Originally posted by DavidF


    Many LLs are not middle class
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 23rd Sep 16, 11:21 AM
    • 11,214 Posts
    • 10,545 Thanks
    Guest101
    Therefore screw anyone who wasn't born in the "right" place, or didn't inherit money, or a million other things which are entirely not their fault? There's a theoretical possibility for them to become a millionnaire, so that makes everything fair?

    State welfare might as well just buy everyone a lottery ticket twice a week and leave it at that, huh?
    Originally posted by Naf


    Where is the 'right' place?
    I think the vast majority of letting agents and lls didn't 'inherit money'. Who exactly are you talking about? And why is it a problem for a family to pass on their wealth to their children?


    Who's 'fault' is it? Or is there no fault at all in reality?


    There's a real possibility for everyone to live comfortably, whether they choose to do so, is not my fault, nor the governments fault? - it's called life
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 23rd Sep 16, 11:22 AM
    • 11,214 Posts
    • 10,545 Thanks
    Guest101
    On paper it may look that way, but in reality its simply not true.

    EDIT: Its like sitting on the side of the swimming pool, watching someone get pushed in the deep end, and telling them, "the steps are over there", then blaming them when they don't climb out.
    Originally posted by Naf


    No it's like offering everyone swimming lessons, then offering those who didn't bother first time additional lessons....


    Time to take personal responsibility
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