Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • MSE Callum
    • By MSE Callum 20th Sep 16, 12:47 PM
    • 108Posts
    • 18Thanks
    MSE Callum
    MSE News: Pension minister vows 'no concessions' for WASPI
    • #1
    • 20th Sep 16, 12:47 PM
    MSE News: Pension minister vows 'no concessions' for WASPI 20th Sep 16 at 12:47 PM
    Women battling against increases in the state pension age have been told they won't succeed in forcing a compromise...
    Read the full story:
    'Pension minister vows 'no concessions' for WASPI - so is this the end of the road?'

    Click reply below to discuss. If you haven’t already, join the forum to reply. If you aren’t sure how it all works, read our New to Forum? Intro Guide.
Page 2
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 21st Sep 16, 2:34 PM
    • 84,053 Posts
    • 49,067 Thanks
    dunstonh
    It always irritates me when any group says they have found that something is 'affordable,' and similarly when the govt or others assert that something is 'unaffordable' as though this clinches the argument. The UK can borrow a lot of money, and so can 'afford' almost anything you can choose to mention (eg High Speed 2, nuclear powers stations, etc, all cost billions). The question is whether it is an optimal use of money compared to alternative uses of the money, one of which is not borrowing the money at all. That is a value-judgement, not an affordability consideration.



    Mr Newlands was elected in 2015 - he is in the new career average pension scheme.
    Originally posted by hugheskevi
    MP salaries are generally stable. So, career average is not really an issue for the majority of MPs.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. Different people have different needs and what is right for one person may not be for another. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from a Financial Adviser local to you.
    • Paul_Herring
    • By Paul_Herring 21st Sep 16, 3:55 PM
    • 6,048 Posts
    • 2,749 Thanks
    Paul_Herring
    https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/thesnp/pages/7860/attachments/original/1474453410/SNP_WASPI_Report.pdf?1474453410

    All 5 options are discriminatory and would contravene EU Directive 79/7/EEC. In the highly unlikely event that they saw the light of day, they would be wide-open to legal challenge.
    Originally posted by bmm78
    Hmm..

    Option 1: Resetting women’s pension age to 60

    Only if you reset men's to 60 as well. Not going to happen.

    Option 2: Return to the timetable in the 1995 Pensions Act

    Only if men's were reduced to the same as women. Not going to happen. Also undoes the 2011 act. Also not going to happen.

    Option 3: Slow the timetable for increasing women’s pension age

    Only if men's are reduced to the same age while this happens. Which it won't.

    Option 4: Reduce the qualifying age for Pension Credit to 65 for a transitional period

    Only if... I'm seeing a pattern here. See what you mean bmm.

    Option 5: Allow women affected by the increase in SPA to 66 to receive the State Pension at age 65 on an actuarially fair basis

    Only if...

    And all these options seem to be shaking more free money from the magic money tree net-tax-payers.

    Which Mr Gavin Newlands certainly isn't. Unless, like certain politicians, he gets more money from private businesses in addition to his MP's pay.

    Mr Newlands was elected in 2015 - he is in the new career average [MPs]pension scheme.
    Originally posted by hugheskevi
    As I said, at an accrual rate of £1,450 (this year, which 'costs' them £8,206.60) per year - gold plated, and paid for by the taxpayer.

    Sadly, since I don't work in the HoC, I can only manage an approximate accrual rate of £745 per year (costing me £16,560)

    I put in twice as much as he does, and get half as much out at the other end in return. If that's not gold plated, I'd like to know what would be.
    Conjugating the verb 'to be":
    o I am humble
    o You are attention seeking
    o She is Nadine Dorries
    • bmm78
    • By bmm78 21st Sep 16, 5:19 PM
    • 382 Posts
    • 439 Thanks
    bmm78
    Interesting summary from a prominent politician regarding any proposed changes to state pensions that moved the UK further away from equalisation:

    "Since 1995, the British Government have said that they will equalise the state pension age gradually to give people the appropriate time to plan for their retirement so that they know exactly when they will be due to retire. It is hard to imagine that the EU Commission would be happy to be suddenly confronted with a new non-equal pension age that was clearly against European law and that had been promulgated on a whim....I suggest that (they) take a much closer look at what seems to be the mess of...policy on the retirement age"

    This could easily be a statement from Green or Harrington today, but it was actually a statement in March 2010. Also, rather than it being a Tory defence of the upcoming 2011 Act, it was actually from Labour’s Angela Eagle who was the DWP Minister of State at the time.

    Any Labour MPs who feel inclined to trumpet today’s report from the SNP may wish to speak to one of their senior and more informed colleagues about the matter.
    I work for a financial services intermediary specialising in the at-retirement market. I am not a financial adviser, and any comments represent my opinion only and should not be construed as advice or a recommendation
  • jamesd
    New story today about pensioner benefits including the triple lock being considered for cuts because like the WASPI 2 and WASPI 3 demands they are not fair to other generations. Since the WASPIs want money only for one gender (so gender discriminatory) and only a part of one generation but paid for by the still working generations via NI that's clearly contrary to the fairness objective. One part of the background for this is that "while [relative]* poverty is falling among pensioners [40% in 1980s, 14% now], working families and younger generations are poorer than they used to be".

    As well as the rejection of the WASPIs, things that are being considered are said to include:

    1. means testing free bus passes
    2. means testing free TV license
    3. means testing winter fuel allowance
    4. replacing the triple lock with a double lock

    Those prospects for means testing benefits also run counter to the WASPI 2's objective of getting an effective backdating of the state pension for some women only to age 60 regardless of how wealthy the pensioner or their household are.

    *relative poverty means below 60% of median earnings, well above actual poverty.
    Last edited by jamesd; 22-09-2016 at 5:14 PM. Reason: typo
    • Pincher
    • By Pincher 22nd Sep 16, 7:25 AM
    • 5,605 Posts
    • 2,014 Thanks
    Pincher
    This is the problem with expectations.


    The Greeks were expecting even more generous pensions.


    I am always surprised when insurance actually pays out.
    Three bicycles stolen over the years, not a penny.
    Sent a file to the Travel Insurance claims people, "Can't speak French", and then "The person who was dealing with your file took it home, and died".


    By the time I retire, they will either give it a hair cut, or they will have printed so much money the weekly pension will buy one banana.


    Expect nothing, and you won't be disappointed.
    Last edited by Pincher; 22-09-2016 at 7:29 AM.
    What happens if you push this button?
    • brewerdave
    • By brewerdave 22nd Sep 16, 11:31 AM
    • 3,876 Posts
    • 1,507 Thanks
    brewerdave
    New story today about pensioner benefits including the triple lock being considered for cuts

    As well as the rejection of the WASPIs, things that are being considered are said to include:

    1. means testing free bus passes
    2. means testing free TV license
    3. means testing winter fuel allowance
    4. replacing the triple lock with a double lock

    Those prospects for means testing benefits also run counter the the WASPI 2's objective of getting an effective backdating of the state pension for some women only to age 60 regardless of how wealthy the pensioner or their household are.

    *relative poverty means below 60% of median earnings, well above actual poverty.
    Originally posted by jamesd
    Sorry to be pedantic/offtopic -but isn't the cost of free over 75 TVL being carried by the BBC in future?
    • Silvertabby
    • By Silvertabby 22nd Sep 16, 12:08 PM
    • 92 Posts
    • 98 Thanks
    Silvertabby
    Sorry to be pedantic/offtopic -but isn't the cost of free over 75 TVL being carried by the BBC in future?
    I think you're right. Expect the BBC to limit it to 75+ households only. Mind you, I've never understood how a multi generational house of 2/3 teenagers, mum, dad and granny could be exempt just because granny was 75.
  • jamesd
    No problem to be pedantic about it, that's the current plan. But since it is also an intergenerational subsidy it's something that could be reviewed as part of any look at such things.

    Part of the issue is that those of older ages are a rapidly increasing portion of all adults so the cost burden on those still working is increasing compared to the one borne by those who are retiring now while they were working. There's an illusory view that some have that "we paid in so you should pay out" when they paid in at a far lower rate than they are wanting others to pay out at.
    • Mortgagefreeman
    • By Mortgagefreeman 22nd Sep 16, 6:20 PM
    • 110 Posts
    • 166 Thanks
    Mortgagefreeman
    News Update - 22 September 2016
    The last few days have seen the WASPI campaign gaining remarkable attention from the success of the local group demonstrations and events right across the country on Friday 16 September. There have been articles on radio, TV and in the papers in all regions.
    Perhaps not surprisingly in the face of this widespread support, Richard Harrington, the pensions minister, felt he needed to make a statement to the effect that the government was not diverting from its usual line of “no plans to revisit the arrangements”. Sadly for him, it’s clear from the response on social media that this statement has only served to stiffen the resolve and determination of WASPI women to continue their fight for a fair resolution to the pensions debacle.
    In fact, the government must now begin to see how isolated it is becoming on this issue. Over 30 local and county councils have passed resolutions in support of WASPI, often with Conservative councillors voting in favour too. Many Conservative MPs have joined the All Party Parliamentary Group and WASPI local groups continue to work hard to persuade other Tory MPs to support the campaign.
    Yesterday saw the Scottish National Party launch a piece of research they had commissioned regarding the costs of making fair pension arrangements for 1950s women. This was aimed only at putting right the failings of the 2011 Pensions Act, and thus fell short of the aim of the WASPI campaign, which is for a fair outcome for all women affected by both the 1995 and 2011 Acts. However, it was a useful first step in showing the Government that, despite their statements to the contrary, money is available in the National Insurance Fund for 1950s women’s pensions and that they have been mistaken in their calculations as to how much various solutions could cost.
    The number of local WASPI groups continues to grow and they are making a very positive difference to the impact and reach of the campaign. Women out and about on the National Day of Local Action last Friday received thousands of signatures for a petition that will be handed in to Parliament next month and they continue to raise awareness through a whole range of different local initiatives.
    The WASPI interim team has recently had a very positive meeting with a leading London law firm specialising in human rights, discrimination and public authorities’ powers. More news on this will follow shortly.
    Building the new Strategy Group is nearly complete, and again, more infor-mation about the structure and format of the group will be with you in the near future.
    Letters to to the DWP are continuing, with a view to making a formal com-plaint to the Parliamentary Ombudsman once the DWP’s complaint proce-dure is exhausted. Legal advice is being sought before the next letter in the series is sent, to ensure that all the bases are covered properly.
    These are exciting times for the WASPI campaign. WASPI is the only campaigning group which supports all 1950s women, whatever their date of birth. Perhaps because of this, the number of our supporters is growing every week and we now have just short of 43,000 people following the Facebook page: far more than any other group.
    Deluded.....totally deluded! It did give me a good laugh
    Project Fear = Project Porkies
    • Silvertabby
    • By Silvertabby 22nd Sep 16, 6:51 PM
    • 92 Posts
    • 98 Thanks
    Silvertabby
    I just can't get my head round the fact that WASPI think it's fair that all women born on or before 31 December 1959 should get their pensions from 60, but that all women born on or after 1 January 1960 can wait until they are 66/67.
    • Mortgagefreeman
    • By Mortgagefreeman 22nd Sep 16, 6:57 PM
    • 110 Posts
    • 166 Thanks
    Mortgagefreeman
    I just can't get my head round the fact that WASPI think it's fair that all women born on or before 31 December 1959 should get their pensions from 60, but that all women born on or after 1 January 1960 can wait until they are 66/67.
    Originally posted by Silvertabby
    Because they're mad as a box of frogs.



    Anne keen leads another WASPI meeting.
    Project Fear = Project Porkies
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 23rd Sep 16, 9:57 AM
    • 934 Posts
    • 1,256 Thanks
    Malthusian
    Anne keen leads another WASPI meeting.
    Originally posted by Mortgagefreeman
    I question the veracity of your photo. There is one frog too many.
    • jem16
    • By jem16 23rd Sep 16, 4:21 PM
    • 18,459 Posts
    • 11,272 Thanks
    jem16
    Option 2: Return to the timetable in the 1995 Pensions Act

    Only if men's were reduced to the same as women. Not going to happen. Also undoes the 2011 act. Also not going to happen.
    Despite what the SNP says, Option 2 does not undo the 2011 Act and certainly not for a cost of £8bn as opposed to £30bn as the government said.

    What it does suggest is the return to the 1995 timetable for a group of 500,000 women born between April 1953 and April 1955.

    The SNP are either deliberately misleading, haven't a clue themselves or lying.
    • bmm78
    • By bmm78 23rd Sep 16, 5:59 PM
    • 382 Posts
    • 439 Thanks
    bmm78
    The SNP are either deliberately misleading, haven't a clue themselves or lying.
    Originally posted by jem16
    I'm not sure that's an either/or scenario
    I work for a financial services intermediary specialising in the at-retirement market. I am not a financial adviser, and any comments represent my opinion only and should not be construed as advice or a recommendation
    • colsten
    • By colsten 24th Sep 16, 11:30 AM
    • 7,941 Posts
    • 6,426 Thanks
    colsten
    SNP MP Mhairi Black should have a danger warning sign tattooed to her forehead. She is now asking why young people like herself should pay National Insurance as they didn't know whether they'd get a state pension.

    This demonstrates how badly informed she is, on several levels
    1. she doesn't appear to understand how state pensions get paid for
    2. she seems to have no idea that National Insurance pays for more than just state pensions
    3. nor does she seem to have any idea how much / how little people pay in NI contributions in their lifetime, and how much they take out. Numbers don't appear to be her strong point.

    Her mindless comments do go down quite well with people who are similarly badly informed.

    Sometimes I despair.
    • Thrugelmir
    • By Thrugelmir 24th Sep 16, 11:59 AM
    • 49,929 Posts
    • 41,598 Thanks
    Thrugelmir
    New story today about pensioner benefits including the triple lock being considered for cuts because like the WASPI 2 and WASPI 3 demands they are not fair to other generations.
    Originally posted by jamesd
    Nothing new. Budget deficit is the driver. More so if Hammond is fiscally loose in the intervening period. Harder and harder to find the savings as the low hanging fruit has been picked off.
    “A man is rich who lives upon what he has. A man is poor who lives upon what is coming. A prudent man lives within his income, and saves against ‘a rainy day’.”
    • JezR
    • By JezR 24th Sep 16, 12:07 PM
    • 1,412 Posts
    • 1,004 Thanks
    JezR
    It does look quite likely that the 'flat' 2.5% may be used for basic/new pension uprating again this coming year, although average total earnings growth on last month's measure weren't far behind at 2.3% (figure published next month is the one in the calculation).
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 24th Sep 16, 1:36 PM
    • 18,396 Posts
    • 10,315 Thanks
    xylophone
    House of Commons Library Briefing Paper


    Number SN-05649, 30 August 2016

    Recent debates page 14 re "triple link" - but the whole ( once again by the knowledgeable Djuna Thurley) provides a useful summary of the whole SP business.....
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 24th Sep 16, 2:10 PM
    • 18,396 Posts
    • 10,315 Thanks
    xylophone
    It does look quite likely that the 'flat' 2.5% may be used for basic/new pension uprating again this coming year, although average total earnings growth on last month's measure weren't far behind at 2.3% (figure published next month is the one in the calculation).
    http://paullewismoney.blogspot.co.uk/2015/06/wages-to-boost-triple-lock.html

    http://paullewismoney.blogspot.co.uk/2015/10/the-uprating-of-benefits-april-2016.html


    The above from 2015 may be of interest.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim's to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

139Posts Today

1,412Users online

Martin's Twitter
  • If you know you're bust you must declare it asap. So no firm ever says "yes we plan to go insolvent". So you never? https://t.co/w8aIKOqHzq

  • Some people misreading... it's NOT the rumours of insolvency of the Monarchy! Its Monarch airlines (again tho I've no idea of its validity)

  • Also re #monarchinsolvency rumours it's important to state Monarch are firmly denying it... https://t.co/N27MENRjY9

  • Follow Martin