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  • FIRST POST
    • ARandomMiser
    • By ARandomMiser 17th Sep 16, 11:04 AM
    • 938Posts
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    ARandomMiser
    Lifetime ISA - age discrimination
    • #1
    • 17th Sep 16, 11:04 AM
    Lifetime ISA - age discrimination 17th Sep 16 at 11:04 AM
    Why is the lifetime ISA age limited?
    As someone who is over 40 I would like to contribute towards one as part of my pension/retirement plans but am not able to - why not?
Page 1
    • badger09
    • By badger09 17th Sep 16, 12:37 PM
    • 4,266 Posts
    • 3,480 Thanks
    badger09
    • #2
    • 17th Sep 16, 12:37 PM
    • #2
    • 17th Sep 16, 12:37 PM
    Why is the lifetime ISA age limited?
    As someone who is over 40 I would like to contribute towards one as part of my pension/retirement plans but am not able to - why not?
    Originally posted by ARandomMiser
    Because that is what the government decided.

    Just as children cannot open an adult ISA
    Just as adults cannot open a Junior ISA
    Just as people below a specified age (which can change) cannot draw their state retirement pension

    etc etc
    • Kim_13
    • By Kim_13 17th Sep 16, 12:38 PM
    • 878 Posts
    • 859 Thanks
    Kim_13
    • #3
    • 17th Sep 16, 12:38 PM
    • #3
    • 17th Sep 16, 12:38 PM
    To keep the cost down for the treasury. It's probably based on research that the Under 40's are not putting enough by and if that continues, they'll end up having to fund those people in retirement via housing benefit etc.

    There may not even be a state pension of any kind by the time younger LISA holders are old enough to retire.

    Age discrimination of course, but the government gets away with a lot of things that would be illegal if done by the man on the street.
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    • Rich2808
    • By Rich2808 17th Sep 16, 2:54 PM
    • 334 Posts
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    Rich2808
    • #4
    • 17th Sep 16, 2:54 PM
    • #4
    • 17th Sep 16, 2:54 PM
    I do have a lot of sympathy on this point given this is primarily intended to be a subsidy to encourage people to buy a home - as that's the only way you can access the funds pre retirement.

    If I was the government I would be very worried about people in their 40s or 50s who don't own a home - whether by circumstances, caring roles or divorce. Because quite soon they will be retired and a drain on the state with no assets to find their social care in time.

    Of course the entire policy is comical in another way - and yet another gimmick which doesn't address the real problem. The government via help to buy, FLS, quantitative easing and low interest rates is doing it's utmost with Mark Carney to drive house prices up to ever more crazy levels. Getting a few grand in LISA bonus while government policies have possibly pushed up the price of the home you want to by £150k and more in the last 5 years doesn't seem like a fair trade to me.

    Maybe we need to stop pretending we are 'helping' first time buyers when all we are doing is making middle aged and older homeowners even more asset rich.

    Now I know it's the policy of the government - but it doesn't mean we can criticise it. Can we really keep bleeding the young dry to pay for the largesse of their elders including paying off our £2tn national debt.
    Last edited by Rich2808; 17-09-2016 at 2:57 PM.
    • PeacefulWaters
    • By PeacefulWaters 18th Sep 16, 10:00 AM
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    PeacefulWaters
    • #5
    • 18th Sep 16, 10:00 AM
    • #5
    • 18th Sep 16, 10:00 AM
    I do have a lot of sympathy on this point given this is primarily intended to be a subsidy to encourage people to buy a home - as that's the only way you can access the funds pre retirement.
    Originally posted by Rich2808
    I would argue that it's intended equally as a FTB and retirement concept. But it is flawed.

    Of course the entire policy is comical in another way - and yet another gimmick which doesn't address the real problem. The government via help to buy, FLS, quantitative easing and low interest rates is doing it's utmost with Mark Carney to drive house prices up to ever more crazy levels. Getting a few grand in LISA bonus while government policies have possibly pushed up the price of the home you want to by £150k and more in the last 5 years doesn't seem like a fair trade to me.
    When I was a FTB house prices were cheaper but interest rates were over 15%. I'd suggest affordability is little different now to then.

    Now I know it's the policy of the government - but it doesn't mean we can criticise it. Can we really keep bleeding the young dry to pay for the largesse of their elders including paying off our £2tn national debt.
    I would counter your point by suggesting the young consume far more than they used to when they could be saving.
    • planteria
    • By planteria 18th Sep 16, 12:51 PM
    • 4,755 Posts
    • 1,039 Thanks
    planteria
    • #6
    • 18th Sep 16, 12:51 PM
    • #6
    • 18th Sep 16, 12:51 PM
    it's a good question, and having made it beyond the forty year hill, i am biased in favour of opening up the scheme too
    • Rich2808
    • By Rich2808 18th Sep 16, 2:31 PM
    • 334 Posts
    • 315 Thanks
    Rich2808
    • #7
    • 18th Sep 16, 2:31 PM
    • #7
    • 18th Sep 16, 2:31 PM
    it's a good question, and having made it beyond the forty year hill, i am biased in favour of opening up the scheme too
    Originally posted by planteria
    I just think it's a very arbitrary age limit and just creates more complexities. A bit like the starter homes scheme which gives a 20 per cent discount on new builds to 39 year olds but not 40 year olds. Why not apply it to all first time buyers of whatever age if it's about promoting home ownership.

    The help to buy isa is available to any first time buyer even if they are in their 70s in theory. The LISA is for under 40s. They have different rules on when you can draw down the bonus as part of the home buying process now.

    I think we could just do with more simplicity and less complexity - and correcting the mistakes of the HTB isa rather than saying we will just correct them for the LISA.

    It just seems very ageist and arbitrary. Life doesn't end at 40 and for whatever reason many over 40s are still renting.
    Last edited by Rich2808; 18-09-2016 at 2:36 PM.
    • bigfreddiel
    • By bigfreddiel 21st Sep 16, 10:55 PM
    • 4,072 Posts
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    bigfreddiel
    • #8
    • 21st Sep 16, 10:55 PM
    • #8
    • 21st Sep 16, 10:55 PM
    Talking about inclusivity at work we have all been reminded how of inclusivity in the workplace, and in the next breath they promoted a women's group conference. You couldn't make it up!

    Cheers fj
    • Joe_Bloggs
    • By Joe_Bloggs 25th Sep 16, 3:09 PM
    • 4,360 Posts
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    Joe_Bloggs
    • #9
    • 25th Sep 16, 3:09 PM
    • #9
    • 25th Sep 16, 3:09 PM
    Is this just a future dated 'helicopter money' scheme devised by a then desperate chancellor (G.Osborne), that will be allowed to peter out.
    J_B.
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    • bigfreddiel
    • By bigfreddiel 25th Sep 16, 8:28 PM
    • 4,072 Posts
    • 1,865 Thanks
    bigfreddiel
    State pension - age discrimination

    It's so unfair that you can only get a state pension at 65!

    Hehehehe

    fj
    • badger09
    • By badger09 26th Sep 16, 12:56 PM
    • 4,266 Posts
    • 3,480 Thanks
    badger09
    State pension - age discrimination

    It's so unfair that you can only get a state pension at 65!

    Hehehehe

    fj
    Originally posted by bigfreddiel
    In your dreams
    • MARTYM8`
    • By MARTYM8` 26th Sep 16, 1:21 PM
    • 1,197 Posts
    • 853 Thanks
    MARTYM8`
    State pension - age discrimination

    It's so unfair that you can only get a state pension at 65!

    Hehehehe

    fj
    Originally posted by bigfreddiel
    67 in my case – or probably never given our inability to live within our means as a nation!

    Shouldn’t we really be asking why we need these schemes – crazily high house prices in London and the south east.

    This story was in the Telegraph yesterday. The real problem is not of course that this doctor and accountant can only afford 45% of a flat in a less than desirable part of inner London – no their inability to get their hands on their £1,400 help to buy isa is the problem?!

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/personal-banking/mortgages/a-slap-in-the-face-buyers-lose-1400-in-latest-help-to-buy-failur/
    • Poobyukes
    • By Poobyukes 6th Oct 16, 4:30 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Poobyukes
    Minimum age qualification
    It seems to me that if the minimum age requirement for a lifetime isa was to be removed a great opportunity would be created for parents and grandparents to take advantage of long term investment on behalf of their youngsters and give them a real chance of a foothold on either the housing or pension ladder or both.
    • jimjames
    • By jimjames 6th Oct 16, 5:01 PM
    • 10,845 Posts
    • 8,915 Thanks
    jimjames
    It seems to me that if the minimum age requirement for a lifetime isa was to be removed a great opportunity would be created for parents and grandparents to take advantage of long term investment on behalf of their youngsters and give them a real chance of a foothold on either the housing or pension ladder or both.
    Originally posted by Poobyukes
    Over 40 why not just put it in a pension? That's available for anyone to pay into even if not working
    This story was in the Telegraph yesterday. The real problem is not of course that this doctor and accountant can only afford 45% of a flat in a less than desirable part of inner London – no their inability to get their hands on their £1,400 help to buy isa is the problem?!
    Originally posted by MARTYM8`
    I really can't see the issue with this - apart from the prices. It's been very clear all the way along that it's the property value that is counted.
    Last edited by jimjames; 06-10-2016 at 5:04 PM.
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    • bigfreddiel
    • By bigfreddiel 9th Oct 16, 9:31 PM
    • 4,072 Posts
    • 1,865 Thanks
    bigfreddiel
    67 in my case – or probably never given our inability to live within our means as a nation!

    Shouldn’t we really be asking why we need these schemes – crazily high house prices in London and the south east.

    This story was in the Telegraph yesterday. The real problem is not of course that this doctor and accountant can only afford 45% of a flat in a less than desirable part of inner London – no their inability to get their hands on their £1,400 help to buy isa is the problem?!

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/personal-banking/mortgages/a-slap-in-the-face-buyers-lose-1400-in-latest-help-to-buy-failur/
    Originally posted by MARTYM8`
    Well I'm getting my sp so that's okay!

    High house prices. Blame low interest rates.

    The simplest way to reduce house prices overnight is to increase interest rates to say 10%. This was the norm in the 80's or thereabouts

    Cheers fj
    • ArmyDilllo
    • By ArmyDilllo 10th Oct 16, 2:26 PM
    • 76 Posts
    • 168 Thanks
    ArmyDilllo
    Someone's able to exploit up to £1,000.00 of my taxes on top of their pension bonus and get it back tax-free.
    Why can't I, a 56 year old coming up to retirement age, receive the same benefit?
    I'm not a first-time buyer but I could have still used the retirement feature (I actually just retired last month).
    It IS ageist.
    Last edited by ArmyDilllo; 10-10-2016 at 2:29 PM.
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    • bowlhead99
    • By bowlhead99 10th Oct 16, 3:44 PM
    • 5,132 Posts
    • 9,058 Thanks
    bowlhead99
    Someone's able to exploit up to £1,000.00 of my taxes on top of their pension bonus and get it back tax-free.
    Why can't I, a 56 year old coming up to retirement age, receive the same benefit?
    I'm not a first-time buyer but I could have still used the retirement feature (I actually just retired last month).
    It IS ageist.
    Originally posted by ArmyDilllo
    Well, you have already had the chance to plan for your retirement for the last 40 years of adulthood and have made good enough plans that you were able to retire already. So, you probably don't need a £1k handout.

    The £1k on the table is something that they could get given in April 2018 as a result of investing next April 2017, but can only access with freedom from April 2037 at the bare minimum, assuming they are waiting to age 60 while currently being under 40. It's not like they are handed free money to blow today.

    Meanwhile you could put £4k in a pension today, have government gross it up to £5k, and draw that out (only 75% taxable) whenever you like. I can't do that because I'm not old enough to access my personal pensions today, and nobody currently aged under 40 would be able to access their personal pensions as young as age 56 (if private pension access continues to trail state pension access by a decade).

    So, there are "ageist" things working in your favour too.
    • MatthewAinsworth
    • By MatthewAinsworth 10th Oct 16, 3:53 PM
    • 2,243 Posts
    • 908 Thanks
    MatthewAinsworth
    I think there might be a sense that the younger generation had it harder with the housing market, as the low rates allow prices to rise and most youngsters don't have an s&s isa, so struggle to save against house price inflation with only cash

    Also ww2 must've had an effect on reducing housing demand by reducing the population, and that has now worn off
    • bowlhead99
    • By bowlhead99 10th Oct 16, 4:02 PM
    • 5,132 Posts
    • 9,058 Thanks
    bowlhead99
    Also ww2 must've had an effect on reducing housing demand by reducing the population, and that has now worn off
    Originally posted by MatthewAinsworth
    But why release an ageist product that helps the young save for home buying or retirement when you could just lower house prices by thinning out the population again with a ww3? Seems a bit unfair.

    If we had a ww3 with involuntary conscription for all under 40, we could reduce the numbers of people under 40 needing to grow their retirement pot.
    • bigfreddiel
    • By bigfreddiel 10th Oct 16, 4:02 PM
    • 4,072 Posts
    • 1,865 Thanks
    bigfreddiel
    I think there might be a sense that the younger generation had it harder with the housing market, as the low rates allow prices to rise and most youngsters don't have an s&s isa, so struggle to save against house price inflation with only cash

    Also ww2 must've had an effect on reducing housing demand by reducing the population, and that has now worn off
    Originally posted by MatthewAinsworth
    I think ww2 also reduced housing somewhat
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