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  • FIRST POST
    • uknick
    • By uknick 16th Sep 16, 11:08 AM
    • 464Posts
    • 208Thanks
    uknick
    Terms of new will
    • #1
    • 16th Sep 16, 11:08 AM
    Terms of new will 16th Sep 16 at 11:08 AM
    My mother's current will was written about 40 years ago. The terms of this will are to sell her estate and then distribute the residual to her remaining children. The estate will be a house with no mortgage, its contents (but nothing of any particular financial value) and a sum of cash. At present there are 2 beneficiaries, me and my brother.

    My brother says she should write a new will to name new executors as both the original named executors have died. I'd have left the will as it is and dealt with this issue once probate was started.

    However, he also wants her to change the terms of the will to say the estate must be divided between her surviving children. He does not want any mention of selling the assets first.

    The reason for the change is that he wants both beneficiaries to keep the house and use it as a rental property.

    I don't want to do this. I want to take my full share of the estate in cash once probate has been completed.

    Will I have a problem with my wishes in this?
Page 1
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 16th Sep 16, 11:30 AM
    • 1,235 Posts
    • 1,006 Thanks
    Yorkshireman99
    • #2
    • 16th Sep 16, 11:30 AM
    • #2
    • 16th Sep 16, 11:30 AM
    My mother's current will was written about 40 years ago. The terms of this will are to sell her estate and then distribute the residual to her remaining children. The estate will be a house with no mortgage, its contents (but nothing of any particular financial value) and a sum of cash. At present there are 2 beneficiaries, me and my brother.

    My brother says she should write a new will to name new executors as both the original named executors have died. I'd have left the will as it is and dealt with this issue once probate was started.

    However, he also wants her to change the terms of the will to say the estate must be divided between her surviving children. He does not want any mention of selling the assets first.

    The reason for the change is that he wants both beneficiaries to keep the house and use it as a rental property.

    I don't want to do this. I want to take my full share of the estate in cash once probate has been completed.

    Will I have a problem with my wishes in this?
    Originally posted by uknick
    A new will with up to date executor would be a good idea. If the house is left to the two of you then you can force a sale anyway.
    Last edited by Yorkshireman99; 16-09-2016 at 3:36 PM.
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 16th Sep 16, 1:57 PM
    • 1,951 Posts
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    Keep pedalling
    • #3
    • 16th Sep 16, 1:57 PM
    • #3
    • 16th Sep 16, 1:57 PM
    Regardless of the wording of the will a beneficiary cannot be forced to become a landlord. You could force the sale of the property to obtain your share, so you brother needs to understand this and the fact that the costs of a forced sale would negatively effect your legacy.

    If he wants to become a property magnate then he will have to buy you out.

    He should also consider that at some time in the future your mother's health may get to the stage that she can no longer cope in her own home so it may need to be sold before her death.

    There is no real problem with the wording he wants to use he just needs to realise that it does not deliver what he wants.
    • uknick
    • By uknick 17th Sep 16, 11:16 AM
    • 464 Posts
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    uknick
    • #4
    • 17th Sep 16, 11:16 AM
    • #4
    • 17th Sep 16, 11:16 AM
    Thanks for your answers.

    If I have to force the sale through the courts do the costs come from the estate, or only my pocket?

    However, from a chat with my mother yesterday she seems keen to keep the wording in the will to say the estate is to be sold and the residual cash equally distributed amongst beneficiaries. I guess I'm just planning ahead for the worst case.

    But, she now says she wants to appoint both my brother and I as joint executors. I'm trying to persuade her this might not be the best thing to do as we have opposing views on what to do with the estate. And, as you may have guessed we don't tend to get along. However, she is firmly against a solicitor doing the job.

    With regard to care home fees, etc., I've never assumed there will be an estate to distribute as one never knows what will happen. I don't think my brother has the same view.
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 17th Sep 16, 12:34 PM
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    Yorkshireman99
    • #5
    • 17th Sep 16, 12:34 PM
    • #5
    • 17th Sep 16, 12:34 PM
    If the land forms part of the state you can force the sale and deduct the costs from the obstructive person. Don't expect it to be easy.in the circumstances it would better for you to be sole executor or for solicitor to be appointed.
    • uknick
    • By uknick 17th Sep 16, 12:45 PM
    • 464 Posts
    • 208 Thanks
    uknick
    • #6
    • 17th Sep 16, 12:45 PM
    • #6
    • 17th Sep 16, 12:45 PM
    If the land forms part of the state you can force the sale and deduct the costs from the obstructive person. Don't expect it to be easy.in the circumstances it would better for you to be sole executor or for solicitor to be appointed.
    Originally posted by Yorkshireman99


    I agree about the executor. Unfortunately my mother has a pathological dislike of lawyers and she won't make me the sole executor as she would consider this favouritism.
    • troubleinparadise
    • By troubleinparadise 17th Sep 16, 12:53 PM
    • 838 Posts
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    troubleinparadise
    • #7
    • 17th Sep 16, 12:53 PM
    • #7
    • 17th Sep 16, 12:53 PM
    If your brother is that keen on keeping the property as a rental (should it still be an asset of your mother's after her death), then he could purchase your share from you.

    His brilliant income earning scheme from renting out the property requires you to invest 50% in his enterprise - he really ought to have sounded you out already as to your views on that, not just presumed that was what you wanted to do.
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 17th Sep 16, 3:07 PM
    • 1,235 Posts
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    Yorkshireman99
    • #8
    • 17th Sep 16, 3:07 PM
    • #8
    • 17th Sep 16, 3:07 PM
    I agree about the executor. Unfortunately my mother has a pathological dislike of lawyers and she won't make me the sole executor as she would consider this favouritism.
    Originally posted by uknick
    Probably a waste of breath but have you explained the likely consequences to your mother?
    • uknick
    • By uknick 18th Sep 16, 11:17 AM
    • 464 Posts
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    uknick
    • #9
    • 18th Sep 16, 11:17 AM
    • #9
    • 18th Sep 16, 11:17 AM
    I have explained to my mother some problems that may arise with joint executors. Especially given one does not actually live in the UK at present and is not expected to return for the foreseeable future.

    But, when I get a response such as ,"my children don't tell me what to do", it is going to be an uphill struggle.

    Luckily, I do have experience in dealing with this sort of attitude so I'll implement the slowly, slowly catchy monkey tactic and see what happens.

    I'll also talk to my brother to see if he actually wants to be an executor. I know he has little knowledge of the process at present as the other day he told me quite adamantly beneficiaries can't be executors of a will they benefit from. In hindsight, I should've let him thinking that and had a solicitor appointed.
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 18th Sep 16, 12:27 PM
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    Yorkshireman99
    I have explained to my mother some problems that may arise with joint executors. Especially given one does not actually live in the UK at present and is not expected to return for the foreseeable future.

    But, when I get a response such as ,"my children don't tell me what to do", it is going to be an uphill struggle.

    Luckily, I do have experience in dealing with this sort of attitude so I'll implement the slowly, slowly catchy monkey tactic and see what happens.

    I'll also talk to my brother to see if he actually wants to be an executor. I know he has little knowledge of the process at present as the other day he told me quite adamantly beneficiaries can't be executors of a will they benefit from. In hindsight, I should've let him thinking that and had a solicitor appointed.
    Originally posted by uknick
    Noted. I feel very fortunate to have had parents who understood the potential problems and acted appropriately. My father was executor for two aged aunts and encouraged me to help him with the paperwork even though I was only 15. A very useful experience. Good luck.
    • vfm
    • By vfm 18th Sep 16, 1:39 PM
    • 127 Posts
    • 64 Thanks
    vfm
    The Will is your mothers so I feel it is up to her who she appoints as Executors and what wording is included in her Will (any Executor can refuse if they don't want to act)..
    We have just wound up the Estate of a relative for whom we were Executors and it was quite difficult as we have not got on with one of the Executors. They made things difficult for us as they wanted the Will changing to reflect their wishes. We stuck out and eventually the Estate was settled as instructed by the Will.
    If I was you I would want the wording on your mothers Will to reflect her wishes and be kept as it is at present. I feel the current wording would make it easier to wind the Estate up.
    Although we were given a hard time, we did get everything sorted out and wound up within 5 months and it was quite easy once the other Executor knew we wouldn't be bullied.
    We would have not wanted solicitors involved as we feel the winding up of the Estate would have taken longer (thereby still having to have contact with a person we didn't get along with and us having to maintain the property as the other person would not have done so) and would have been expensive.
    Even if you don't get along with your brother it is your mothers wishes that count.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 18th Sep 16, 2:03 PM
    • 25,612 Posts
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    getmore4less
    Living named executors are handy as they get their powers from the will, in practice it only makes a difference when there are problems.

    Just because a will say sell everything executors don't have to, they can still distribute assets by "selling" them to beneficiaries accounting for the value.

    In this case as the single asset would need a cash injection if one beneficiary wanted to keep the asset so a normal sale(to the beneficiary) would be the way to go.

    If brother does not live here(uk) and wants to keep it as a joint rental looking like he wants you to do all the work.

    Once he realises this issues with remote admin of estates and property he may become more realistic in his expectations.

    Your idea of a let this drift could resolve naturally.
    • Malcnascar
    • By Malcnascar 22nd Sep 16, 3:43 PM
    • 1,018 Posts
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    Malcnascar
    Apologies if i have missed this in earlier posts.

    A codicil could be used to appoint new executors so keeping in tact the original will wording.
    • uknick
    • By uknick 22nd Sep 16, 4:30 PM
    • 464 Posts
    • 208 Thanks
    uknick
    Apologies if i have missed this in earlier posts.

    A codicil could be used to appoint new executors so keeping in tact the original will wording.
    Originally posted by Malcnascar

    Agreed.

    The idea of a new will came from either my mother and/or brother who both don't really understand how things work with regard to wills and how easy it can be to change executors.
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 22nd Sep 16, 6:33 PM
    • 1,235 Posts
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    Yorkshireman99
    Agreed.

    The idea of a new will came from either my mother and/or brother who both don't really understand how things work with regard to wills and how easy it can be to change executors.
    Originally posted by uknick
    If the executors named in the will are dead then someone has to apply for letters of administration with the will annexed. This means that the person(s) applying become the executors. If a new will says the assets are to be divided between several people then the house would have to be sold anyway unless one, or more of the beneficiaries buy the others out. Whilst codicils are of course an option the current preference is to produce a new will. After forty years the rules have changed so much that a new will really is the only sensible option.
    Last edited by Yorkshireman99; 22-09-2016 at 6:45 PM.
    • BobQ
    • By BobQ 24th Sep 16, 9:46 PM
    • 8,539 Posts
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    BobQ
    I agree that appointing a solicitor as an executor can be more expensive, and is problematic if your mother does not want it. But it would be best if the executor(s) live in the UK. Does your mother have anyone else she can trust that could be an executor? She could leave them a small bequest in return for taking on the role perhaps?
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 25th Sep 16, 2:04 AM
    • 36,621 Posts
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    Savvy_Sue
    I think the biggest difficulty with deceased executors is that you have to supply proof of that with death certificates etc. I'm sure there would be some provision for if you were unable to do that, but if you started making noises to Mum about the fact that you would need this information after her death so can she help you get it together now it might help her consider the consequences of doing nothing.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Cutting Tax; Charities; Small Biz & Charity Organisers; and Silver Savers boards, which means I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge threads there. However, do remember, Board Guides don't read every post. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. It is not part of my role to deal with reportable posts.

    Any views are mine and are not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com
    Still knitting! 1st cardigan done, abandoned another, knitting baby bootees instead ...
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