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    • mac_1867
    • By mac_1867 10th Sep 16, 1:58 PM
    • 10Posts
    • 10Thanks
    BW Legal / VCS from 2011
    • #1
    • 10th Sep 16, 1:58 PM
    BW Legal / VCS from 2011 10th Sep 16 at 1:58 PM
    I have a PCN from Aug 2011 issued against a vehicle i owned based in Sheffield.

    i have read other threads but i am still confused what to do.

    The PCN is for "parked in restricted area of the car park"

    I have taken advice given at the time and ignored all letters, from VCS, graham white etc etc and now have them coming from BW Legal, currently on the 2nd letter offering me a 40% discount reducing the PCN to 126.00

    i have not responded to anything in the 5 years since the PCN was issued, never had a phone call just letters.

    they have also got the name wrong on the letter with my occupation then my full name

    Thank you in advance for advice given
    Last edited by mac_1867; 10-09-2016 at 2:57 PM.
Page 2
    • mac_1867
    • By mac_1867 21st Sep 16, 12:13 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    In receipt of you letter dated xxth September 2016.

    I note that the alleged parking event was over five years ago.

    This pre-dates the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 and your client has no right to pursue me as the registered keeper, you are blatantly ignoring these facts.

    I have also stated i am not legally obliged to identify the driver, you may reasonably presume i was the driver but you are wrong and i deny this, as this is a company vehicle with whom there were a few drivers at that time.

    I am also not legally obliged to give you any personal information regarding any employee of mine as this breaks the Data Protection act 1998.

    You have no photographic evidence of who was driving and if you do not rely on the Protection of Freedoms act 2012 then on what grounds do you expect to take me to court with.
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 21st Sep 16, 12:17 PM
    • 3,543 Posts
    • 3,924 Thanks
    Good reply, let's see what reply they will give.

    Let us know

    • mac_1867
    • By mac_1867 21st Sep 16, 12:23 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    3.4 Before the Protection of Freedoms Act a private landholder could only seek liability against a vehicle driver to recover unpaid parking charges, and therefore needed to be able to identify who was the driver of the vehicle that incurred the parking charge. A landholder could make a request to DVLA for details of the registered keeper but there was no requirement for the registered keeper either to say who was driving the vehicle or to accept liability him or herself. This allowed both the vehicle driver and the registered keeper to avoid liability and meant that landholders, on certain occasions, found it difficult to manage parking by ticketing alone.

    3.5 Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act addresses this situation. It allows, providing certain conditions are met, the landholder to pursue the registered keeper of a vehicle for unpaid parking charges if the registered keeper refuses or is unable to identify the driver at the time the parking charge was incurred. This is often referred to as “keeper liability”. However the registered keeper cannot be liable for any unpaid parking charges if he or she identifies the driver of the vehicle at the time the parking charge was incurred.

    A little confused by this
    • yotmon
    • By yotmon 21st Sep 16, 12:39 PM
    • 298 Posts
    • 361 Thanks
    Top paragraph relates to your alleged infringement, bottom paragraph has no relevance to your case as law cannot be retrospective.

    So, they could apply as in your case for the keeper details from the dvla prior to pofa, yet they could not pursue the keeper for payment, only ask them who was the driver. If the ppc could not identify the driver then it should be 'game over'.
    • mac_1867
    • By mac_1867 21st Sep 16, 12:44 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    should i put that paragraph into the reply?
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 21st Sep 16, 12:46 PM
    • 3,543 Posts
    • 3,924 Thanks
    should i put that paragraph into the reply?
    Originally posted by mac_1867
    I would not bother, they know that anyway.

    If they are stupid enough to go to court then its part of your defence and a question to the judge

    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 21st Sep 16, 10:51 PM
    • 38,211 Posts
    • 49,683 Thanks
    BW Legal called me about an alleged not payment of parking from five years ago (who can remember who was driving their car that long ago?), perhaps I should have hung up, but I didn't and I made the same points that mac_1867 made.

    In that phone call they claimed I'd committed an 'offence', the V5C for my vehicle had 'terms and conditions' that meant I was liable for anything that anyone driving my vehicle does and they planned to continue calling and writing letters to me despite me disputing the debt.

    BW Legal aren't debt collectors, they're con artists. If they dialed the wrong number they would probably still threaten legal action against the person that answered.
    Originally posted by Pound
    You need to report that misleading pack of lies to the SRA - complaints are flooding in about BW Legal who are being investigated. But your phone call conversation is a new low.
    PCN in a private car park in England/Wales? DON'T PAY IT BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Do NOT read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 22nd Sep 16, 11:21 AM
    • 5,252 Posts
    • 3,794 Thanks
    The Deep
    Tell them that you will be quite happy to argue your case in front of a judge, but when you win, as you surely must, you will be seeking compensation for the wasted time they have cost you.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
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