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  • FIRST POST
    • aleks1244
    • By aleks1244 6th Sep 16, 8:15 PM
    • 7Posts
    • 1Thanks
    aleks1244
    Parking ticket in own bay No Permit - appeal rejected
    • #1
    • 6th Sep 16, 8:15 PM
    Parking ticket in own bay No Permit - appeal rejected 6th Sep 16 at 8:15 PM
    Hello,

    I rent a flat in a 2012 built estate, and I have a parking space with the flat, and a valid permit however one day when leaving early in the morning to work I have found a pcn behinde the wipers, I was leaving at 7am and the pcn was from 06.19am on the 03/09/16. The reason for the sign is because I have not clearly displayed my permit. Usually the permit is stuck to the window, however I had my windscreen replaced about a month ago and I had it loose on the dashboard, I think it dropped because of the wind as i closed the door the day before and then i closed the windows with my key. It dropped on the gears if you look closely on the picture you can see the corner of the permit.

    I have lived in the estate for 11 months now and never had any problems with pcns, I have sent back a letter saying i have a contract , and a valid permit, explained to them what happened however they have rejected my appeal stating -

    thank you for your correspondence regarding the above pcn, i have considered your case carefully and have decided to reject your appeal on the following grounds -

    You parked in a manner whereby you agreed to pay a charge, the parking attendant recorded that the vehicle was parked without a valid permit.

    parking control are contracted to manage the parking within this area and the parking charge notice has been issued in accordance with this parking management scheme. the signage is in the area and it is clear and inform motorist of the restrictions the parking is managed under that enforcement action will be taken for parking in this manner.

    The restrictions require that a valid permit is displayed at all times where that is a pcm resident permit visitors or contractors. it is not disputed that you hold a valid permit, however if this is not displayed in the vehicle the operative is unable to determine whether they are permited to park here, it is the drivers responsibility to ensure the permit is visible and secure prior to leaving the vehicle unattended , as no permit was displayed in the car it was therefore liable to enforcement action.

    -----------------------------------------

    When you leave my estate you have a main estate road, and two cars were parked there over night and it does state that you are not allowed to park there aswell, i have taken pictures as evidence why do i get a fine in my own bay if there is no bays on the main road, if i knew i would have left it on the main road. Im sure he passed the vehicles why did he not pc them?


    is there anything i can do?

    please help as im lost now, it was a one off i have never received any type of fine before so im angry it was for parking in my own estate.

    the comapny is called parking controll managment uk ltd

    the also are with dmuk and ipc
    Last edited by aleks1244; 16-10-2016 at 11:15 AM. Reason: mistake !
Page 1
    • The Slithy Tove
    • By The Slithy Tove 6th Sep 16, 9:37 PM
    • 3,096 Posts
    • 4,387 Thanks
    The Slithy Tove
    • #2
    • 6th Sep 16, 9:37 PM
    • #2
    • 6th Sep 16, 9:37 PM
    First things first. If you are renting, what exactly does your AST say about parking? If you own the property, what exactly does the lease say about parking? Is it an allocated parking space? Is that space part of the property (as per the lease)?

    And what is this "contract" you mentioned in your appeal?

    Answers to these will determine the approach you need to take.
    • aleks1244
    • By aleks1244 6th Sep 16, 9:49 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    aleks1244
    • #3
    • 6th Sep 16, 9:49 PM
    • #3
    • 6th Sep 16, 9:49 PM
    Car Parking
    100.
    101.
    102.
    103.
    104. 105.
    To park private vehicle(s) only at the Propeny.
    To park in the space, garage or driveway allocated to the Property, if applicable.
    To keep any garage, driveway, or parking space free of oil and to pay for the removal and cleaning of any spillage caused by a vehicle of the Tenant, his family, contractors or visitors.
    To remove all vehicles belonging to the Tenant, his family or visitors at the end of the Tenancy.
    Not to park any vehicle at the Property which is not in road worthy condition and fully taxed.
    Not to store or keep on the Premises or any communal car park any boat, caravan or commercial vehicle without the prior written consent of the Landlord or his agent. Such consent not to be unreasonably withheld. The Landlord reserves the right to withdraw consent upon reasonable grounds and upon reasonable notice, any such consent previously given.

    this is all i could find about parking in the contract, and the contract I was talking about is that I have a 12 month contract for the property, and i have extended for another 12months


    please help!
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 6th Sep 16, 10:00 PM
    • 40,525 Posts
    • 52,410 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #4
    • 6th Sep 16, 10:00 PM
    • #4
    • 6th Sep 16, 10:00 PM
    the comapny is called parking controll managment uk ltd
    Ignore them now then, just as the NEWBIES thread tells you to do, in post #3 and post #4 of that sticky advice thread.

    IPC firms will not cancel a PCN, so sit tight. If you move house within 6 years, you must tell them (in writing, never by phone) your new address, and keep proof of posting. This makes sure you receive all the daft debt collector letters and never miss a small claim later on, if they try it on in a few years. Rare but defendable - and not paperwork to miss.

    Read more about PCM and IPC members, search the forum, read the NEWBIES thread near the top of this board (NO LINK, one click back).

    No-one is telling you to pay this. Complain to your landlord as it seems you are a tenant, so you are not a leaseholder/do not own the space.

    Sit tight.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • aleks1244
    • By aleks1244 15th Oct 16, 10:21 AM
    • 7 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    aleks1244
    • #5
    • 15th Oct 16, 10:21 AM
    • #5
    • 15th Oct 16, 10:21 AM
    Hello its me again I have recieved a letter from a company called - TRACE DEBT RECOVERY UK LIMITED

    "Your case has now been passed on to above named company - for the collection of an outstanding debt.
    Our client parking control management, has written to you requesting payment for parking charges relating to the above parking charge notice, however to date the debt has not been settled"

    "additional charges have been leveid to cover the cost of recovery. to avoid additional fees and to prevent further recovery action being taken, you must pay the amount due of £160 by no later than 26th of october 2016"
    "If you do not pay the full amount by the date shown above or you have not contacted us to agree a payment option by then, we will be forced to take further recovery action.

    * the appointed firm of soliciters may be instructed to take your case to court
    * should the case go to court additional court fees and legal costs may be recoverble from you

    please do not ignore this letter if you are unable to pay the full amount please call to discuss payment options bla bla bla"

    firstly this is the first letter i have recieved after the first post on the forums, it says £60 if paid within 14 days or £100 within 28 days and now they send a letter for £160

    im afraid that they might send someone to take the car or items from property if i will not pay

    please help what should i do? all info stays the same as first post i have sent them info that i have a contract and permit and it was a one off which they rejected.

    PLEASE HELP!!
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 15th Oct 16, 10:31 AM
    • 11,009 Posts
    • 16,433 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #6
    • 15th Oct 16, 10:31 AM
    • #6
    • 15th Oct 16, 10:31 AM
    Nothing you can do other than either pay or ignore.

    Ignoring is the recommended advice. Store the letter. Only come back in the event of receiving a solicitor letter or court papers.

    Have you complained to the landowner and asked them to intervene? Often works.
    NEWBIES - wise up - DO NOT IGNORE A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE - you have been warned!

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Please note: I am NOT involved in any 'paid for' appeals service.
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 15th Oct 16, 10:51 AM
    • 4,135 Posts
    • 4,751 Thanks
    beamerguy
    • #7
    • 15th Oct 16, 10:51 AM
    • #7
    • 15th Oct 16, 10:51 AM
    Hi, to allay your fears,

    NOBODY WILL BE TAKING YOUR CAR
    NOBODY WILL CALL AT YOUR ADDRESS

    TRACE DEBT RECOVERY UK LIMITED are just another of those time wasting debt collectors.

    It is just a try on to scare you. You may well get a few of these bully boy letters but just ignore them and NEVER make any sort of contact with them.

    They are IPC members just like Parking Control Management and any company who uses the IPC run by the Gladstones boys can only be considered as a scam.

    If PCM want to take this further, they must do it themselves.
    Just wait and if they contact you, come back here
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • aleks1244
    • By aleks1244 15th Oct 16, 11:21 AM
    • 7 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    aleks1244
    • #8
    • 15th Oct 16, 11:21 AM
    • #8
    • 15th Oct 16, 11:21 AM
    thanks for quick reply makes me very happy that there are people that are willing to help, only worried as i was never in such a stupid situation before and as a young parent i cannot afford to pay large amounts of cash.

    do you think they will let this go? or can the fine increase after months~?

    i will be contacting the main management company to ask for help and if there is anything the can do as they are the ones that have employed them to watch the area
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 15th Oct 16, 11:32 AM
    • 5,561 Posts
    • 4,272 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #9
    • 15th Oct 16, 11:32 AM
    • #9
    • 15th Oct 16, 11:32 AM
    As your AST does not mention a permit you should complain to your landlord that the PPC/MA is interfering with your right to "quiet enjoyment" of your property, a possible offence under The Landlord and Tenant Acts.

    Read this

    http://www.miltonkeynes.co.uk/news/milton-keynes-woman-secures-landmark-victory-for-flat-tenants-in-parking-dispute-1-7459066


    They are unlikely to let this go without a fight, but if they take you to court they will have an uphill struggle. Be prepared for lots of paper, and lots of threats. They can however do nothing until a Judge finds for them.
    Last edited by The Deep; 15-10-2016 at 11:36 AM.
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 15th Oct 16, 11:32 AM
    • 4,135 Posts
    • 4,751 Thanks
    beamerguy
    thanks for quick reply makes me very happy that there are people that are willing to help, only worried as i was never in such a stupid situation before and as a young parent i cannot afford to pay large amounts of cash.

    do you think they will let this go? or can the fine increase after months~?

    i will be contacting the main management company to ask for help and if there is anything the can do as they are the ones that have employed them to watch the area
    Originally posted by aleks1244
    You and thousands of others caught up in this mega scam.

    If, and only if they go to court, any extra costs are minimal as it's only a county court.
    The management company can get this cancelled so your job is to put pressure on them
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 15th Oct 16, 7:57 PM
    • 40,525 Posts
    • 52,410 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    thanks for quick reply makes me very happy that there are people that are willing to help, only worried as i was never in such a stupid situation before and as a young parent i cannot afford to pay large amounts of cash.

    do you think they will let this go? or can the fine increase after months~?

    i will be contacting the main management company to ask for help and if there is anything the can do as they are the ones that have employed them to watch the area
    Originally posted by aleks1244
    It is not a fine. It cannot increase to stupid amount, it's an invoice from a scam industry.

    Think of these letters as phishing emails but just keep them.

    Even if a parking company tried a small claim these are defendable (and rare) then the keeper can win and pay nothing. Even a lost case at small claims costs about £160, which is the same as being demanded now...so you can see not to pay. Why would you? Most cases never go near a court.

    im afraid that they might send someone to take the car or items from property if i will not pay
    You've been watching too much 'Can't Pay, we'll take it away' stuff on TV but not realised that bailiffs only come into the frame if a case is lost in court AND the person then refuses to pay after losing.

    Just ignore them as we've already told you. Debt collector firms send letters, then...more letters. Then they give up.

    Of course the management firm can cancel. Will they? Unlikely. Doesn't change anything.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • aleks1244
    • By aleks1244 15th Oct 16, 8:05 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    aleks1244
    Hello, just to be sure i have not made any mistakes which i think i have after reading the newbie thread.

    I received a windscreen ticket, and i was daft enough to log on their website paymypcn-uk and view evidence and reply with an appeal. I had to put my address in the appeal as I have received the debt collectors letter. This appeal was done before I found this site so now im a little worried i could have made a silly mistake which could later be used against me.

    Firstly newbie thread states -

    "consider waiting 3 weeks" - which was my mistake because i replied via their website within a day or two as i never had any problems like this before and i thought it would be an easy appeal as I do have a permit.

    I have the ticket infront of me and the firm Parking Control Management is Accredited IPC Operator

    In my appeal i said i have a permit bla bla so they know im the owner of the car, so could there be a problem that I have appealed day or two after finding ticket on windscreen and not waiting three weeks?

    I have now found an appeal draft for IPC members which I did not use as i put my own text together which was another mistake.

    Do I still reply to debt collectors with the template from newbie thread even though it says please note - it is to late to appeal the original parking ticket. in line with industry standards the next available level of dispute resolution would be the county court. OR do i send another appeal to the same website that left the windscreen ticket?? the text from the newbie thread sound 10x professional from what I have written.

    If it is to late to send them the professional text by forum members and my appeal is to childish (im only 21) is it better to pay or still ignore?

    I have called the estate number asking for help they said I should contact Hallmark Reading as they employ these people to control parking in the area, if i contact them should it be my phone or email to ask if they can cancel this for me as i do have a permit i have lived in the area for a year and extended contract for another year and as mentioned before there is nothing of permits in my contract.

    I know it says read about debt collector letters but just to make you aware on the postal letter I have received from the it says they are also IPC and CSA

    on the back of the letter they have written also - for free confidential debt advice you can contact citizen advice, and a few different services is there anything to worry about?>

    /I have seen the draft letters to debt collectors, should i reply to them ? they are called - tracerecovery.co.uk or should i ignore?

    I have tried searching for info about this company and there is nothing i can find

    my questions is - PAY because you are daft and you messed up as the steps were not followed from newbie thread

    or its never to late as you can fix the mistakes you have made at the beginning,

    Will the management company say it is to late for them to do anything as it has been taken to a debt collectors company or can they still help??

    please help im still young and stupid and sometimes it is difficult to understand some points

    im very worried as i have a child and paying large amounts of cash later is not something i want as i would prefer to spend money on my child.
    Last edited by aleks1244; 15-10-2016 at 8:24 PM.
    • aleks1244
    • By aleks1244 15th Oct 16, 8:20 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    aleks1244
    thanks Coupon for your reply i have just sent another post now and was not aware that you have also replied to my previous post (thought you d be angry that another person skipped the newbie thread), thanks for your help it helps me unstress!

    And you are right I do watch Cant Pay We Will Take it away!
    haha
    Last edited by aleks1244; 15-10-2016 at 8:26 PM.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 15th Oct 16, 9:35 PM
    • 40,525 Posts
    • 52,410 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Watch it more closely next time, they are High Court bailiffs with a writ. Not 'debt collectors'.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 15th Oct 16, 9:54 PM
    • 36,468 Posts
    • 73,302 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Hello, just to be sure i have not made any mistakes which i think i have after reading the newbie thread.

    I received a windscreen ticket, and i was daft enough to log on their website paymypcn-uk and view evidence and reply with an appeal. I had to put my address in the appeal as I have received the debt collectors letter. This appeal was done before I found this site so now im a little worried i could have made a silly mistake which could later be used against me.

    Firstly newbie thread states -

    "consider waiting 3 weeks" - which was my mistake because i replied via their website within a day or two as i never had any problems like this before and i thought it would be an easy appeal as I do have a permit.

    I have the ticket infront of me and the firm Parking Control Management is Accredited IPC Operator

    In my appeal i said i have a permit bla bla so they know im the owner of the car, so could there be a problem that I have appealed day or two after finding ticket on windscreen and not waiting three weeks?

    I have now found an appeal draft for IPC members which I did not use as i put my own text together which was another mistake.

    Do I still reply to debt collectors with the template from newbie thread even though it says please note - it is to late to appeal the original parking ticket. in line with industry standards the next available level of dispute resolution would be the county court. OR do i send another appeal to the same website that left the windscreen ticket?? the text from the newbie thread sound 10x professional from what I have written.

    If it is to late to send them the professional text by forum members and my appeal is to childish (im only 21) is it better to pay or still ignore?

    I have called the estate number asking for help they said I should contact Hallmark Reading as they employ these people to control parking in the area, if i contact them should it be my phone or email to ask if they can cancel this for me as i do have a permit i have lived in the area for a year and extended contract for another year and as mentioned before there is nothing of permits in my contract.

    I know it says read about debt collector letters but just to make you aware on the postal letter I have received from the it says they are also IPC and CSA

    on the back of the letter they have written also - for free confidential debt advice you can contact citizen advice, and a few different services is there anything to worry about?>

    /I have seen the draft letters to debt collectors, should i reply to them ? they are called - tracerecovery.co.uk or should i ignore?

    I have tried searching for info about this company and there is nothing i can find

    my questions is - PAY because you are daft and you messed up as the steps were not followed from newbie thread

    or its never to late as you can fix the mistakes you have made at the beginning,

    Will the management company say it is to late for them to do anything as it has been taken to a debt collectors company or can they still help??

    please help im still young and stupid and sometimes it is difficult to understand some points

    im very worried as i have a child and paying large amounts of cash later is not something i want as i would prefer to spend money on my child.
    Originally posted by aleks1244

    ... and breathe.

    Appealing a windscreen ticket early is not the best thing to do, buy it is not fatal.

    It doesn't matter if the PPC know who the owner/keeper is, they can find that info out by paying the DVLA 2.50. Revealing who was driving is not a good idea, but again all is not lost if that is what you have done.
    If you haven't given away the driver's details, then by appealing the windscreen ticket, you may never get a NTK, which then works in your favour.

    Ignore debt collectors. It's that simple. I won't say it again.

    Don't contact CAB. They know naff all about private parking companies.

    Why come to a money saving website and ask if you should pay? I shall not lower myself to answer that question.

    The landowner can get this cancelled. They are responsible for any and all sub contractors on their land.

    You do not need to display a permit because it is not a requirement of your lease.

    Have I missed anything?
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 15-10-2016 at 9:58 PM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 15th Oct 16, 10:30 PM
    • 40,525 Posts
    • 52,410 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Don't contact CAB. They know naff all about private parking companies.
    Totally agree, do not ask the CAB, they have no clue.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 16th Oct 16, 6:54 AM
    • 985 Posts
    • 1,727 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    I have called the estate number asking for help they said I should contact Hallmark Reading as they employ these people to control parking in the area, if i contact them should it be my phone or email to ask if they can cancel this for me as i do have a permit i have lived in the area for a year and extended contract for another year and as mentioned before there is nothing of permits in my contract.
    As above plus you should actually follow your own suggestion and write. Whether they agree or not is not material as you letter shows you engaged early on to point out your rights ion the matter. Get proof of posting.

    The Deep's suggestion could also be added though the word "offence" may be OTT as it would be a breach of contract and not an "offence".

    As your AST does not mention a permit you should complain to your landlord that the PPC/MA is interfering with your right to "quiet enjoyment" of your property, a possible offence under The Landlord and Tenant Acts.
    General Election coming up? Your MP worried about his/her job? Give them something to do and get them to sort out these parking cowboys. Search "Theyworkforyou" for the name of your MP.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 16th Oct 16, 9:44 AM
    • 5,561 Posts
    • 4,272 Thanks
    The Deep
    the word "offence" may be OTT as it would be a breach of contract and not an "offence".

    The word is apposite, the Act is not part of the Law of contract
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 16th Oct 16, 10:10 AM
    • 985 Posts
    • 1,727 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    the word "offence" may be OTT as it would be a breach of contract and not an "offence".

    The word is apposite, the Act is not part of the Law of contract
    Originally posted by The Deep
    You may be right but it might help if the information was a bit narrower that the "Acts". Here is the 1985 Act. I can see 21 mentions of "offence". Do any of these apply to the situation?


    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1985/70
    General Election coming up? Your MP worried about his/her job? Give them something to do and get them to sort out these parking cowboys. Search "Theyworkforyou" for the name of your MP.
    • Parking-Prankster
    • By Parking-Prankster 16th Oct 16, 10:37 AM
    • 303 Posts
    • 1,124 Thanks
    Parking-Prankster
    http://www.tracerecovery.co.uk/our-services/

    lol

    Our clients issue Parking Charge Notices where parking rules have been breached. Unfortunately many of these parking charges remain unpaid, not because the motorist cannot pay, but as in most cases, because motorists have been led to believe that they don’t have to pay an outstanding parking charge. The web is rife with forums advising the unsuspecting motorist that PCNs are not enforceable and that if the motorist ignores the notices sent out to them then the process will end and the charges will go away.

    Other online advice will state that the parking charges are not legally enforceable. This advice is not only untrue, but also harmful to its target audience, leading law abiding motorists into situations where they are faced with court claims processes, solicitors fees and additional costs over and above the original parking charge.

    These sometimes well-meaning, yet unscrupulous websites do not often provide accurate information such as the outcome of a recent landmark supreme court case: ParkingEye v Beavis, which was heard by The Supreme Court on the 4th of November 2015, where judgement was passed which proved that Parking Charge Notices are not only legal but also enforceable through the courts.


    and

    With over 30 years of experience in the UK parking industry, our team at TRACE Debt Recovery UK Limited bring unparalleled service levels and quality to the parking enforcement market.
    With quality and transparency as our underpinning ethos, we strive to treat each motorist with whom we interact, with fairness and respect


    Newbies...incorporated 22 Mar 2016

    Officers here
    https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10079126/officers

    Not sure where they got their 30 years experience from...

    Previous company names (for a month...)
    DCL DEBT COLLECTION LIMITED 22 Mar 2016 - 28 Apr 2016
    Hi, we’ve approved your signature. It's awesome. Please email the forum team if you want more praise - MSE ForumTeam
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