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  • FIRST POST
    • utigers
    • By utigers 6th Sep 16, 8:09 PM
    • 212Posts
    • 47Thanks
    utigers
    Fistral Beach/more info for my first appeal?
    • #1
    • 6th Sep 16, 8:09 PM
    Fistral Beach/more info for my first appeal? 6th Sep 16 at 8:09 PM
    Hi do I need to add the second paragraph or is it really just to get a popla code? Thanks


    Date 06-09-16


    Dear Sirs

    Re: PCN No.xxxxxxxx

    I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car and I will complain to the landowner about the matter if it is not cancelled.

    The car park was full on the day in question, and the queues getting into the car park, then looking for a space and then exiting the car park exceeded the time allocation of this site. Therefore no ticket was bought as no parking space was found.

    I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in!ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis.!Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers before they park.

    Further, I understand you do not own the car park and you have given me no information about your policy with the landowner or on site businesses, to cancel such a charge. So please supply that policy as required under the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013. I believe the driver may well be eligible for cancellation and you have omitted clear information about the process for complaints including a geographical address of the landowner.

    There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.

    I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

    Yours faithfully,
    Last edited by utigers; 08-09-2016 at 7:31 PM.
Page 1
    • Redx
    • By Redx 6th Sep 16, 8:43 PM
    • 12,442 Posts
    • 14,849 Thanks
    Redx
    • #2
    • 6th Sep 16, 8:43 PM
    • #2
    • 6th Sep 16, 8:43 PM
    change it to this keeper based statement

    The driver states that the car park was full on the day in question, and that the time queuing to get into the car park, then looking for a space to park and then exiting the car park exceeded the grace period time allocation for this site. Therefore no ticket was bought as no parking space was found and the driver eventually exited the car park in accordance with the presumed signage there.
    its to either get a cancellation or a popla code

    Smart Parking tend to fold when they see a good forum based popla appeal
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Ivor Pecheque
    • By Ivor Pecheque 6th Sep 16, 9:36 PM
    • 680 Posts
    • 1,236 Thanks
    Ivor Pecheque
    • #3
    • 6th Sep 16, 9:36 PM
    • #3
    • 6th Sep 16, 9:36 PM
    Check out circling isn't parking
    The transcript is on the prankies resource page.

    Have posted a video (search for my thread on here "Fistral" which demonstrates congstion on the beach car park (SMART)
    Illegitimi non carborundum
    • utigers
    • By utigers 7th Sep 16, 10:36 AM
    • 212 Posts
    • 47 Thanks
    utigers
    • #4
    • 7th Sep 16, 10:36 AM
    • #4
    • 7th Sep 16, 10:36 AM
    Thanks for the replies.

    Ivor - Do they have cameras to prove if you circled at this location? Who is the onus on to prove circling?

    Thanks again.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 7th Sep 16, 10:46 AM
    • 10,984 Posts
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    Umkomaas
    • #5
    • 7th Sep 16, 10:46 AM
    • #5
    • 7th Sep 16, 10:46 AM
    I'm not Ivor, but the only cameras in an ANPR controlled car park are at the entrance/exit, which only take a snapshot of the vehicle on entry and exit.

    If you say you were circling, they would need to rebut that. They've got no way of doing so.

    Don't overthink this - Smart can be so easily beaten.
    NEWBIES - wise up - DO NOT IGNORE A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE - you have been warned!

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Please note: I am NOT involved in any 'paid for' appeals service.
    • utigers
    • By utigers 7th Sep 16, 6:46 PM
    • 212 Posts
    • 47 Thanks
    utigers
    • #6
    • 7th Sep 16, 6:46 PM
    • #6
    • 7th Sep 16, 6:46 PM
    Ok thanks Umkomaas, just wondered if they had CCTV in the main car park.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 7th Sep 16, 6:52 PM
    • 12,442 Posts
    • 14,849 Thanks
    Redx
    • #7
    • 7th Sep 16, 6:52 PM
    • #7
    • 7th Sep 16, 6:52 PM
    even if they did they cannot use it for parking purposes as it would be a clear breach of the licence they operate under

    their BPA registration does not allow use of CCTV to target drivers , there isnt even a category on the BPA website for CCTV use, only ANPR use

    the technology for anpr use was explained by parking prankster over 2 years ago on his blogs , but in essence its a simple business model

    clock the car in using an ANPR camera , clock it out on another ANPR camera (my missus used to do this by "analogue means" with manual punch cards into a mechanical clock years ago in a mill)

    if its a pay and display car park , check for payment by checking the VRM against the anpr data and check the "onsite" time against the "paid for" time

    if its free , just check the "onsite time" , not parking time

    if it exceeds the allowed time or paid for time by more than a certain margin , issue a pcn to the keeper by using a KADOE contract to get DVLA keeper details

    in practice they may do some checks as well , looking for typos etc , but they never seem to do the much vaunted checks they talk about , no matter which PPC it is
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 7th Sep 16, 8:09 PM
    • 10,984 Posts
    • 16,389 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #8
    • 7th Sep 16, 8:09 PM
    • #8
    • 7th Sep 16, 8:09 PM
    I think far too many people are watching Police, Camera, Action and the like much too much!
    NEWBIES - wise up - DO NOT IGNORE A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE - you have been warned!

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Please note: I am NOT involved in any 'paid for' appeals service.
    • Andrew White
    • By Andrew White 14th Sep 16, 10:57 AM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Andrew White
    • #9
    • 14th Sep 16, 10:57 AM
    • #9
    • 14th Sep 16, 10:57 AM
    Hi I have just been reading your thread as I used that car park and have something similar and tried every avenue of advice and am still at a loss.
    I didn't receive a PCN from smart parking only a debt collecting agency demand for money.


    On the 15th July we visited Newquay Fistral beach and on entering the car park we pulled over. We did not know if it was a dog friendly beach so while one of us waited in the car while I walked down to the beach to find out. I then walked back to the car and drove it further down into the car park near to the beach front. I then purchased a ticket from the pay and display machine and the ticket displayed expired at 16.10hrs.


    The first notification of a PCN was when we received a letter form DRP Limited. There was no option to appeal as the 28 days had expired.


    I requested an appeal but all efforts were ignored and just redirected to the debt collecting agency.


    The appeal is based on two points:


    • We believe the time started from when we purchased the pay and display ticket.
    • There has no been no notification of the PCN from Smart Parking Limited with documented evidence which has now resulted in a request for payment of £160.
    I contacted the CAB who then referred me to POLPLA. and the response was they could not help as the 28 days had expired and no appeal had been made. I explained that how can I appeal if I never received a PCN?


    I looked on the website at my PCN number and saw the photos but there is a gap between us entering the car park and me purchasing the ticket, but what are the terms and conditions ? how long are you allowed to circle the car park,like you did, and then purchase a ticket?surely this type of monitoring your time in the car park is illegal you can't have pay and display and photos of entering and leaving?


    No one is listening and I wanted to know where I stand?
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 14th Sep 16, 11:07 AM
    • 10,984 Posts
    • 16,389 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    No one is listening and I wanted to know where I stand?
    Where you stand is that you're too late to appeal to POPLA and now you have a debt collector on your tail. Debt collectors are powerless (please read newbies FAQ sticky, post #4) and Smart Parking aren't currently litigious (although they have 6 years to issue court proceedings). All you can do is continue to ignore unless you get a Letter Before Claim or real court papers.

    http://www.bmpa.eu/companydata/Smart_Parking.html
    NEWBIES - wise up - DO NOT IGNORE A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE - you have been warned!

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Please note: I am NOT involved in any 'paid for' appeals service.
    • Andrew White
    • By Andrew White 14th Sep 16, 2:19 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Andrew White
    Thanks for the reply .


    Sorry but what is" please read newbies FAQ sticky, post #4"
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 14th Sep 16, 4:16 PM
    • 40,470 Posts
    • 52,375 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Thanks for the reply .


    Sorry but what is" please read newbies FAQ sticky, post #4"
    Originally posted by Andrew White
    It means read the sticky info thread 'stuck' near the top of this forum.

    Click on the 'parking fines' part of the breadcrumb trail above (top of page):

    'Home » Forums > Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking...'

    You will be on page one where the sticky info threads are stuck like notices for newbies to read, ideally before diving in and posting on the forum.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • utigers
    • By utigers 14th Sep 16, 9:16 PM
    • 212 Posts
    • 47 Thanks
    utigers
    Andrew - I'm no expert but you have probably skipped, through no fault of your own to the 'ignore' stage. This car park is designed to issue as many PCN's as possible and plenty of people will pay.

    I have no intention of paying as I believe I did nothing wrong.

    Smart parking havent taken anyone to court before and a judge has recently said circling for a space means a contract hasnt begun.

    I would be interested to know how you get on.
    • Ivor Pecheque
    • By Ivor Pecheque 14th Sep 16, 9:33 PM
    • 680 Posts
    • 1,236 Thanks
    Ivor Pecheque
    Hi Utigers,

    in our case, we could not prove, beyond reasonable doubt, that we circled the car park.

    We know the car park well, having spent the last 10+ years there, learning to surf, so we knew we had to pay.

    Think The Judge gave us an easy option out when it got to court. He asked if we could definitely say we didn't park.

    I explained we couldn't definitely say, but on the balance of the probabilities, this was the most likely explanation.

    Went in the court room being honest, and it paid off.

    As regards evidence of not circling at Fistral, I took this photo on 8/9/16, she didn't seem to be carrying any paraphernalia of PPC's, but it was a new sight to me...

    Illegitimi non carborundum
    • utigers
    • By utigers 4th Oct 16, 6:37 PM
    • 212 Posts
    • 47 Thanks
    utigers
    Result! Got an email today saying it has been cancelled after sending the above template in. Thanks to all on here who do great work to help.

    Just need to sort out G24 now
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 5th Oct 16, 1:05 PM
    • 40,470 Posts
    • 52,375 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Great news! Smart do not like the forum appeal in the NEWBIES thread!
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • utigers
    • By utigers 5th Oct 16, 7:36 PM
    • 212 Posts
    • 47 Thanks
    utigers
    Great news! Smart do not like the forum appeal in the NEWBIES thread!
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    Agreed, they just want the easy money hence no court cases. Also possibly why they fold at the first template so no popla code is issued and they dont waste money chasing people that dig their heels in.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 5th Oct 16, 9:10 PM
    • 10,984 Posts
    • 16,389 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Agreed, they just want the easy money hence no court cases. Also possibly why they fold at the first template so no popla code is issued and they dont waste money chasing people that dig their heels in.
    Originally posted by utigers
    Maybe they call themselves 'Smart' for a very good reason - in the perverse world of private parking!
    NEWBIES - wise up - DO NOT IGNORE A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE - you have been warned!

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Please note: I am NOT involved in any 'paid for' appeals service.
    • Alison1107
    • By Alison1107 13th Oct 16, 1:27 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Alison1107
    Hi all, i have received a PCN from smart parking at fistral beach. I was wanting to use the template seen above, like used in the newbie faq thread for my appeal. I dont not remember which thread i saw it on but i believe one of you posted a picture of the signage at fistral beach, where it displays the parking charges it says in brackets 'summer tariffs' but no clear distinction as to when this runs from and to... could you guys advice me if i am going about this correctly using the above template. i can start my own thread if necessary. thank you
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 13th Oct 16, 1:34 PM
    • 10,984 Posts
    • 16,389 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Do a forum search for 'IvorPecheque Fistral', he has posted dozens of photos of Fistral signs. Use the 'search this forum' search button and click 'search posts' rather than use the 'search threads' default.

    Go back through the most recent posts and you'll soon come across some photos.

    If you need any more help, please start a new thread of your own.
    Last edited by Umkomaas; 13-10-2016 at 1:37 PM.
    NEWBIES - wise up - DO NOT IGNORE A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE - you have been warned!

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Please note: I am NOT involved in any 'paid for' appeals service.
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