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  • FIRST POST
    • hineyb
    • By hineyb 30th Aug 16, 9:28 AM
    • 40Posts
    • 5Thanks
    hineyb
    UKPC 2nd letter stage
    • #1
    • 30th Aug 16, 9:28 AM
    UKPC 2nd letter stage 30th Aug 16 at 9:28 AM
    Hi, i am newbie in terms of account creation but i have been following and using these posts for years using all your advice.. i have won every appeal so far (even some luckily against councils!) i even do appeals for my friends and do well..

    Anyway i have got this far without ever needing to ask a question or ask for advice but now it seems UKPC have stumped me!!!

    my girlfriend has recently moved to a rented flat which UKPC control.. she doesnt drive so she has given me her permit.. a few times the car park has been so full that i have just parked in a made up space.. which most times i have got away with.. this time however.. they have fined me (UKPC) my car was fined on the 10/06/16, i did the norm and ignored the fine and took it off windscreen and put in my car as i always do and waited the NTK.. i received the NTK on 14/07/16, i then wrote to them in the standard form that i always use for the newbies page..

    they then wrote back on the 22/08 saying..

    [COLOR="red"]thank you for your recent correspondence in relation to the parking charge.

    in order to make a final decision regarding your appeal, pleace can you provide the full name and address of the driver to our appeals department within 21 days of this letter

    Paragraph 9(2)(B) of schedule 4 of the protection of freedoms act 2012, states that we must inform the registered keeper that the drive of a vehicle is required to pay the parking charge in full. it also notes that as we do no know the drivers name or current postal address, the registered keeper, if they not the driver at the time, should inform the operator (i.e us ) of the name and current address of the driver and pass the notice to them.

    The act also warns that if, at the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the day after parking charge is sent), the parking charge has not been paid in full and the operator does not know both the name and current address of the driver,m the operator has the right to recover and unpaid part of the parking charge from the registered keeper. this warning is given under paragraph 9(2)(f) of schedule 4 of the protection of freedoms act 2012 and is subject to us complying with the applicable conditions under schedule 34 of that act (which we consider we do comply with, to the letter)

    Failure to provide this information will give us no alternative other than to make our final decision based on the previous information received, at this stage a POPLA verification code will be provided.

    Further correspondence can be sent to our postal address below or on our website at (their website)

    The parking charge has been on hold whilst under appeal and may be settled in full at the reduced rate of £60.

    PLEASE DO NOT IGNORE THIS LETTER. UKPC REGULARLY TAKES MOTORISTS TO COURT WHO IGNORE THEIR PARKING CHARGERS. PLEASE SEE (a link to their site again) FOR FURTHER INFORMATION.


    Please excuse any errors in the above i had to type the letter up as i am not sure how to upload a pic to this.. (any instructions would be great )

    What would you suggest my next steps be??

    I have also about another 3 fines coming through from them as i didnt put the permit up.. as its lost its stickiness and falls down so i leave it off and put i up when i park.. but stupidly i have forgotten around 3 times.. so i know i have another 3 on their way!! (any advanced suggestions on this would be great too!) i am not on the lease agreement so id struggle to prove anything that way!!

    Thanks for your help in advance
Page 4
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 12th Oct 16, 11:09 AM
    • 11,015 Posts
    • 16,441 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Almost 5,000 words! One of the main reasons I gave up trying to critique POPLA appeals.
    NEWBIES - wise up - DO NOT IGNORE A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE - you have been warned!

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Please note: I am NOT involved in any 'paid for' appeals service.
    • hineyb
    • By hineyb 12th Oct 16, 11:14 AM
    • 40 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    hineyb
    Hahaaha! i was told to keep it long as they are more likely to accept the appeal?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 12th Oct 16, 11:24 AM
    • 40,528 Posts
    • 52,421 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Almost 5,000 words! One of the main reasons I gave up trying to critique POPLA appeals.
    Originally posted by Umkomaas
    Yep but mostly template stuff, e.g the signs & landowner authority paragraphs are standard.

    Hahaaha! I was told to keep it long as they are more likely to accept the appeal?
    Indeed, and I am going to suggest after 'no keeper liability' you also add the template point which goes hand in hand with 'no keeper liability' - the one about 'the individual nor being identified as the person liable' (see POPLA Decisions thread).

    I also always suggest the signage paragraph is illustrated by embedding the blurry images of UKPC signs you'll find on their website under your photos. Make it pretty and stop the Assessor falling asleep (choose the worst pics that show the car nowhere near a sign and the illegible small print in all its glory).

    Make it long but make it readable with pics.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 12th Oct 16, 11:38 AM
    • 11,015 Posts
    • 16,441 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    It's not so much the number of words themselves, off-putting enough as they are, it's more often about the 'copy and dump' then leave it to a regular to fine-toothcomb that frustrates me. And then to be shortly followed by another attempt and then to be asked to go through it yet again, often with more errors to sift out.

    OPs need to be realistic in what can be expected from regulars. They are often operating in their own little case vacuum blissfully ignorant that regulars are commenting on dozens of other cases simultaneously.

    As I said (in a similar 'rant') last night, I admire your resilience (and unwavering patience) CM.
    NEWBIES - wise up - DO NOT IGNORE A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE - you have been warned!

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Please note: I am NOT involved in any 'paid for' appeals service.
    • hineyb
    • By hineyb 12th Oct 16, 11:47 AM
    • 40 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    hineyb
    is this pic a good one to use??

    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 12th Oct 16, 11:48 AM
    • 40,528 Posts
    • 52,421 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    It's not so much the number of words themselves, off-putting enough as they are, it's more often about the 'copy and dump' then leave it to a regular to fine-toothcomb that frustrates me. And then to be shortly followed by another attempt and then to be asked to go through it yet again, often with more errors to sift out.

    OPs need to be realistic in what can be expected from regulars. They are often operating in their own little case vacuum blissfully ignorant that regulars are commenting on dozens of other cases simultaneously.

    As I said (in a similar 'rant') last night, I admire your resilience (and unwavering patience) CM.
    Originally posted by Umkomaas


    It's all skim-reading! There is no fine tooth comb used, I just look for the right headings/template and a quick check for anything specific that should be added.

    OPs can proof read their own versions for relevance, that's their task.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • hineyb
    • By hineyb 12th Oct 16, 11:56 AM
    • 40 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    hineyb
    And should i add it with text saying.. how am i supposed to read this from here bla bla

    or would they not expect you to see there is a sign and get out your car and read what the sign says???

    they can be expected or required to put a sign infront of every space are they?
    • hineyb
    • By hineyb 12th Oct 16, 12:03 PM
    • 40 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    hineyb
    Just picked this up from my mums too...



    can i send the same POP appeal but just ammend the dates?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 12th Oct 16, 12:05 PM
    • 40,528 Posts
    • 52,421 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    how am i supposed to read this from here bla bla
    Except lose the word 'I' because you do not want to imply the driver!!


    can i send the same POP appeal but just amend the dates?
    Of course, if it's all the same and relevant. I once sent the same POPLA appeal six times for a friend's tickets!
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • hineyb
    • By hineyb 12th Oct 16, 12:22 PM
    • 40 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    hineyb

    Of course, if it's all the same and relevant. I once sent the same POPLA appeal six times for a friend's tickets!
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad

    haha did you win them all?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 12th Oct 16, 12:28 PM
    • 40,528 Posts
    • 52,421 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Yes, I've never lost one for any friend/colleague or footie fan. There is almost always a winning angle.

    Lost IAS appeals but that's par for the course!
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • hineyb
    • By hineyb 12th Oct 16, 1:44 PM
    • 40 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    hineyb
    hi

    was looking at wrong fine/invoice (im learning)

    is this ok to put these photos?? with the arrow pointing to the how far away the sign is ?

    • hineyb
    • By hineyb 12th Oct 16, 2:30 PM
    • 40 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    hineyb
    is this enough text to go with it? or do i need to add more??

    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 12th Oct 16, 6:01 PM
    • 40,528 Posts
    • 52,421 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I'd go as far as to say that NO SIGNS are at the back of this building at all (there is what looks like something white - a sign, who knows? - in the far distance beside another building but not here at this place, beside THESE double yellows).
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • hineyb
    • By hineyb 14th Oct 16, 9:40 AM
    • 40 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    hineyb
    Ok so i sent that one

    im now on to the next one which if u remember in the earlier post i said that they asked for the permit which i sent them and they rejected.. silly asking for the permit really..

    should i include in my popla letter saying that they asked for permit and when sent they still continued to try and fine me??? or shall i just ammend the latest letter we did?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 14th Oct 16, 10:27 AM
    • 40,528 Posts
    • 52,421 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Ok so i sent that one

    im now on to the next one which if u remember in the earlier post i said that they asked for the permit which i sent them and they rejected.. silly asking for the permit really..

    should i include in my popla letter saying that they asked for permit and when sent they still continued to try and fine me??? or shall i just ammend the latest letter we did?
    Originally posted by hineyb
    I would amend the POPLA appeal to suit, proof reading the entire thing and removing the stuff about double yellows if that one was not about that.

    You can see a decent 'permit holder' POPLA appeal example posted by IanMSpencer in the penultimate page of POPLA Decisions (near the other template POPLA appeal wording suggestions from me). You may like to use some of his wording about permits and why there is no 'legitimate interest' arising from the landowner's intentions (which are obviously aimed solely at stopping random people using the car park). Fining an authorised/permitted person even when the PPC knows they had a permit is unconscionable in the extreme, clearly there to punish, which makes the charge unenforceable.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • hineyb
    • By hineyb 14th Oct 16, 10:29 AM
    • 40 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    hineyb
    Ok Thanks coup...

    i have just checked my first POPLA appeal and its on the second stage now.. nerves kicking in!
    • hineyb
    • By hineyb 21st Oct 16, 10:27 AM
    • 40 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    hineyb
    DecisionSuccessful
    Assessor NameLinda McMillan
    Assessor summary of operator case
    Operator has submitted no evidence.

    Assessor summary of your case
    The appellant’s raises several grounds for appeal including signage, landowner authority and PoFA2012.

    Assessor supporting rational for decision
    By issuing the appellant with a Parking Charge Notice (PCN), the operator has implied that the appellant has not complied with the terms and conditions of the car park in question. It is the duty of the operator to provide evidence to POPLA of the terms and conditions that the appellant did not comply with. The operator has not provided any evidence to POPLA. As the operator has not provided a response to the appeal, it has not demonstrated that the PCN is valid. Accordingly, I must allow this appeal.


    ONE DOWN THREE TO GO.. WOOOOO
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